PR Application and eea id

[Obie]

I still think the case of Barnett is good law, and a sound decision.

However one has to appreciate that at the time of the decision in Barnett, Regulation 21(5) was not in Existence.

The Judge was simply dealing with the question of Whether the then Regulation 17(1) or 18(2), required the ID of the EEA national, and the Tribunal said it did not.

However we now have a situation, where a specific legislative provision has been implemented to state that an application will be considered as Invalid if it is not accompanied with a passport or ID card of an EEA National.

Therefore the 2 situation is different.

Barnett has always been very helpful and of immense assistance to me at appeal hearing, but this new 21(5) put the tribunal into a difficult position, and i don't believe the tribunal will seek to or have the power to determine that the regulation is ultra vires.

[Wise]

Obei thanks for your inputs on this topic and while we're still figuring out what's behind this regulation, everything appear to me like HO delibrately did it to reduce people living in UK legally.

I felt for all people who can't see their ex spouse and just hope and pray that there's solution to this.

People can now just wait and see what tribunal will come up with if drag to that stage and if it's negative that will change everything regarding UK in my opinion even if you carry British Passport and it''s not by birth as anything can happen over night.

[007RAHEEL]

I fail to understand if someone had retain to right due to domestic violence or after divorce and sponsor left the country how could you expect non eea to provide the id of ex sponsor it's totally unlawful.

[Shani7605]

@007RAHEEL You have a point but I'm sure if you could manage a photo copy of your ex's ID you will acquire PR. I personally know someone who's acquired PR by sending a scanned copy of their ex's ID. As per my understanding you need a valid ID (not expired) of your ex. Btw is there anything else mentioned in your refusal other than not providing ID?

[007RAHEEL]

No it only says refused because of id. Firstly my point is her id was accepted by sshd 3 times first when I applied for certificate of approval (COA) second time when I applied for residence card 3rd time when I got retain to right. Also circumstances is beyond my control so home office have to consider this.as I'm aware home office dont accept copies. I have challenge the decision and they accepted to reconsider in 3 months so waiting to get response it's only been 10 days yet.

[Obie]

Barnett and others (EEA Regulations: rights and documentation) Jamaica [2012] UKUT 142 (IAC) (14 May 2012).

I think the court in the recent case of Ullah, also dealt with the new Regulation 21(5), albeit in a different context.

Counsel, for reasons unknown to me, did not inform the court of Barnett, but the court came to a broadly similar conclusion to Barnett, as to whose passport regulation 18(1) requires.

In paragraph 38-41, the Court recognises the new regulation, but did not deal with it, as it was not applicable to the claimant in that case, due to the transitional provision.

[007RAHEEL]

I read that case before but our case is a bit different in many ways.

First he applied for residence card for the first time and he did not provide valid passport.

We have supplied valid passport and we are separated from our sponsor so circumstance is different
Home office have accepted the sponsor id 3 times before and they can easily check from their records. also in ullah case it states if circumstance are beyond your control sshd ( home office ) should consider the application if you can prove.

So in our case it completely in our control on or form I believe everyone mention we divorced and not in contact with our sponsor.

[Obie]

Well the above is not news to my ears. Home Office even have policies that gave effect to Barnett. They have previous policies that state that they will not seek theEU national's ID if they had previously seen it.

However if they woke up on the morning of 1st February and say all applications must be accompanied by the EU national's passport, then it is not my fault.

I will only set it out on the forum. Saying it is unlawful is becoming like a cliche.

[jay.ho]

Obie what the soluation of this you are the most senior person on this forum and every one eyes on you .....
please give the advice to everyone in this case what to do .



Jay

[Jbkhan32]

Jay.ho
You wrote in your earlier post that one of your friend applied in march 17 received ror?
If this is true as I believe then nothing to worry
Each and every case has a different weight
In few cases HO asked identity of eea national before feb 17 in ror applications as well.
Let assume if regulation 21 is applicable on regulation 10(ror)and 15(pr) then no body can do anything.simple solution is to wait the out comes of applications who made after feb 17.

[jay.ho]

Jabkhan32 ..

Yeah that's 100% true my friend apply in March and HO granted ROR . It's am totally confused when I see the BRP card . But it's true ROR granted without any eea if or anything .

I explain before as well please I request every one that share your experience

Regards

Jay

[Richard W]

@Obie, thanks for the the link and advices. I have been following this regulation 21(5) on here but I am struggling to understand how could HO ask those who divorced to provide the ID of their EEA ex-spouse?

It also applies when sponsors die. In their cases, there should no longer even exist a valid passport! (Or is it just Britain that cancels the passports of the deceased?)

[Richard W]

It also applies when sponsors die. In their cases, there should no longer even exist a valid passport! (Or is it just Britain that cancels the passports of the deceased?)

Curiously, this requirement does not apply to family members who are themselves EEA nationals!

[Obie]

@Obie, thanks for the the link and advices. I have been following this regulation 21(5) on here but I am struggling to understand how could HO ask those who divorced to provide the ID of their EEA ex-spouse?

It also applies when sponsors die. In their cases, there should no longer even exist a valid passport! (Or is it just Britain that cancels the passports of the deceased?)

If the EEA National has died, then Regulation 42(1) will likely be engaged.

[Obie]

It also applies when sponsors die. In their cases, there should no longer even exist a valid passport! (Or is it just Britain that cancels the passports of the deceased?)

Curiously, this requirement does not apply to family members who are themselves EEA nationals!

Well they really should not, as a matter of EU law.

1. Without prejudice to the second subparagraph, divorce, annulment of the Union citizen's
marriage or termination of his/her registered partnership, as referred to in point 2(b) of Article 2
shall not affect the right of residence of his/her family members who are nationals of a Member
State.

Before acquiring the right of permanent residence, the persons concerned must meet the conditions
laid down in points (a), (b), (c) or (d) of Article 7(1).

[Richard W]

Curiously, this requirement does not apply to family members who are themselves EEA nationals!

Well they really should not, as a matter of EU law.

But Regulation 21(5) does not affect the rights of family members -

"Possession of a registration certificate as referred to in Article 8, of a document certifying permanent residence, of a certificate attesting submission of an application for a family member residence card, of a residence card or of a permanent residence card, may under no circumstances be made a precondition for the exercise of a right or the completion of an administrative formality, as entitlement to rights may be attested by any other means of proof."

Therefore, the denial of a residence card does not affect one's rights in a state subject to the rule of law. (This conclusion is an unpleasant echo of the principle that mere EFMs may petition for privileges rather than have rights.)

[Obie]

Well that is true, that the card merely evidence a right rather than granting it. However a person is practical impotent without a document evidencing their right, especially with Brexit.

Little surprise the EU are demanding the rights of these people be enforced by the CJEU. The UK government simply cannot be trusted.

[fatimahh]

Here is my experience as i was also worried when i heard about refusal due to EEA id. i have received my PR after RoR !!!
My timeline
Application sent on13th February 2017
Money taken on 24 February 2017
Biometric done on 20 March 2017
COA received on 26 March 2017
Checked online and it says DECIDED on 06 August 2017
Documents with passport received on 21 August with letter confirming Pr dated 18th August.
PR card received on 23 August.

Documents provided: Copy of EEA french passport (don't have original), decree absolute, P60, payslips and employment history of EEA during marriage until decree absolute, photos of EEA with myself while together, proof of cohabitation while together, my passport, my own payslips from date of decree absolute till date application sent, bank statement where wages paid, bills and tenancy agreement for myself, cover note briefly explaining that i hold Ror and now applying for PR.

Good luck to anyone waiting for their decision

[Jbkhan32]

my application is awaiting for decision
I managed a copy a my ex,
What do you think if i send it to ho Or shell i wait for decision?

[ribena]

When is your decision date?

[Jbkhan32]

When is your decision date?

Don't know.has done biometrics and online tracking is saying awaiting for decision

[ribena]

It could be a few weeks to another couple/months when you get decision.. mine was about 2 months in between.

If I were you, I'd feel better sending it in rather than wait. You might even get a positive decision before they get the copy of the ID!

Ps: I sent a letter to HO notifying them my change of address in May-17 (my 6 months would be up in July), received PR card and docs back in June at the old address! (3 weeks gaps in between, luckily I was still at my old place)

[jay.ho]

Hi all.........

Again I request everyone please share your experience regarding eea id ....

Your reply will help others ...

Regards

Jay

[jay.ho]

Guys I request you all please share your experience regarding photo id ....

It will be help allot to others

Thanks

Jay

[ribena]

I am sure someone will share IF they have anything to share.. there isn't any need to spam this topic.