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The criterion for being treated as an EEA national was changed on 25 November 2016. Essentially, the word "immediately" was inserted in what is now Regulation 9(2)(a)(i):frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 pm1) Am I right about the reasons for rejection being invalid? If not, have the criteria changed, and when?
Regulation 9(7) starts(2) The conditions are that—
(a)BC—
(i)is residing in an EEA State as a worker, self-employed person, self-sufficient person or a student, or so resided immediately before returning to the United Kingdom; or
(ii) ...
and thereby implies that the decision in Eind was wrong.For the purposes of determining whether, when treating the BC as an EEA national under these Regulations in accordance with paragraph (1), BC would be a qualified person -...
I rather suspect the case will not conclude before Brexit. A savvy HO presenting officer may well get the case kicked into touch by getting the legal questions referred to the EUCJ, who will never respond.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 pm2) Is there any point in appealing? What is the typical waiting time?
I don't know, but the difference may well be the least of your costs.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:31 pm3) Do I have to pay the appeal fee (80 GBP) twice (once for my wife, once for my stepson)?
If the EEA Regulations 2016 (and 2006 from November 2016) express the law and refer to no impossible questions, then (A) applies. However, if you have not been a qualified person since your return to the UK, then if the regulations are correct then they either lost their rights after 3 months, in June 2015 (expiry of the initial right of residence) or after 6 months, in September 2015 (expiry of the family permits - which I am presuming were never revoked).frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 pmI'm having difficulty in interpreting in concrete terms the implications of what you are saying. Which of the following are you saying applies to my case?
A) Even though my family legally entered the UK in March 2015, the right of my family to live with me in the UK has now rescinded as of Nov 2016;
I am not suggesting that they may have rights yet not be entitled to have documentation confirming them. So, no to B.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 pmB) Even though my family legally entered the UK in March 2015 and are legally entitled to remain living with me in the UK (at least until future change of regulations post-Brexit), they are not entitled to receive EEA(FM) residency cards, due to the change in regulations in Nov 2016; or
I believe this is the correct interpretation of the law, for the rulings of the EUCJ override the EEA Regulations. It may, however, be necessary to apply the reasoning of the Surinder Singh judgement. Possibly the logic of Eind is also relevant, even if you are a qualified person, to back up the conclusion of Surinder Singh in your case. Perhaps the Home Office has found a credible alternative chain of reasoning which would result in the Surinder Singh decision but not support the extension of Directive 3004/38/EC to cover your family.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:17 pmC) My family are legally entitled to remain living with me in the UK, and are entitled to EEA(FM) residency cards.
I thought it likely that you were a qualified person, but you hadn't said. That leaves the fundamental Surinder Singh issue.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:42 pmI am employed by my own consultancy company, and have performed much consultancy work since my return. It's just that I didn't point this out the Home Office (because I was under the impression that there was absolutely no need to).
Yes.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:42 pmAnd when you say "EEA Regulations", do you mean the UK government's regulations related to the EEA?
Note that it is all rather complex. There is a widespread belief that the Home Office does not understand the supranational free movement law, or wilfully chooses to ignore it.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 amSo, Richard W, would I be correct in summarising what you are saying as this:
(1) It is "legally debatable" whether or not my family are entitled to continue living in the UK with me from this date onwards. This is because of a change in Home Office rules in Nov 2016 with respect to the Surinder Singh route, that insists that being unemployed "immediately" (and certainly for 6 months) prior to return to the UK disqualifies my family from Surinder Singh status, regardless for how many months or years I worked in Germnay. Obie thinks my family are entitled, Richard W is not so sure;[/quote]
Yes.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 am(2) Whether or not they are currently entitled to live with me in the UK at the moment is exactly the same question as whether or not they are entitled to EEA(FM) residency cards under a new application (assuming a correct application);
That is what the wording of the regulations implies.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 am(3) I was wrong to think that, even prior to Nov 2016, I did not need to show that I was a "qualified person" (e.g. had a job on my return to the UK) when applying for EEA(FM) residency cards for my family. The Home Office were correct, for that reason alone, in turning down our application; and
The argument of legitimate expectations offers more hope of the case being dealt with reasonably quickly. There may also be some advantage in having an appeal in progress, as opposed to conceding that your family is not lawfully resident. The timing problem is that the emerging withdrawal agreement does not appear to cover Surinder Singh. There are EU nationals whose lawful residence in the UK depends upon Surinder Singh.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 am(4) Appealing against the rejection we received yesterday from the Home Office is probably pointless, because they will probably either turn down the appeal or "kick it into the long grass" on this legally debatable point (1), and this would probably not get resolved until some time after March 2019 when Brexit actually happens and the UK will probably no longer be under jurisdiction of the ECJ.
This is comparable to issuing a British passport. The Passport Office does refuse to renew passports because it believes it made, or worse, may have made, a mistake in issuing a passport in the first place. A good example is people of whom parent appeared to have permanent residence, but then turned out not to have complied with the Workers' Registration Scheme (WRS). For passport renewal, relevant passport holders' parents had to demonstrate compliance with the WRS.frustratedbrit wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:25 pmThinking about this a bit more, I just don't get this. Surely, having a EEA Family Permit is confirmation from the Home Office that we are legally entitled to enter the UK to live together indefinitely, and that is what we did and are continuing to do, and so legally surely that is the end of the matter, at least until Brexit ends the jurisdiction of the ECJ. How could it possibly be legally interpreted any other way? I know that the Home Office is on shaky ground generally about all of this, but what would their position be on what I have just said? Or has no-one ever asked them?