Urgent Hep - Job Creation

[Atif786]

Hi, according my understanding is that you can only combined to 2 different part time jobs to make it 1 full time in order to meet the criteria of creating 30 hours of employment in a week , it's only possible when you combined 2 different part jobs running parallel to each other . ( so Job 1 & 2 can't be combined to make it 1 full time as they are not parallel and in fact from different years .
Only full time job with same job title can be combined from different part of the years to make it 1 full time with 12 months existence ( regardless number of employees filled in that position )

Part time work of your employee 2&3 can be combined to make it equavelint to 1 full time provided they have different job title .

Now to combine another part time job with your employee 1 you need to have another employee who was working during the same period in different position or job role to make it 2nd full time employment , so I reckon the only employee you have left to use who joined you in 2015 April or May , is it's may your fine but if it's April 2015 then I can't say anything .

I am neither a guru nor expert as I have struggled with my job creation calculation through out , so I have just shared my Experince and findings and whatever I have learnt from Zimba,Marcnath & Sm2.
So wait for their comments plz

[arnomarga]

Hi Atif,

Thanks for your input. I am not combining Job (1&2), I am combining Job Title 1 + Job Title 2 = 1 Full-time.

Job Title 1 & 2 are 2 separate jobs which is done by Employee 1 & 2 under Job No 1.

Job Title 3 & 4 again separate jobs which is done by Employee 1, 3 & 4 under Job No 2.

According to Guidance:

within the same job, another worker can replace a worker who is employed for part of a year and then leaves the job, so that the employment as a whole adds up to 12 months. However, if there is a gap between one worker leaving a post and another worker starting employment, the period when the post is not filled will not be counted - only periods during which a worker is employed in a post will be considered. If you are combining workers within the same job, you must make it clear in your application which employees are being used.

For Job No 2 I am using 3 employees, Employee 3 worked 12 months and Employee 1 worked 11 months and then straight away Employee 4 Joined which last for 6 months.

I was reading another post where someone asked about joining 2 part-times whose joining years are different and marcnath said its ok.

At the end of Guidance:

The jobs must exist for at least 12 months. Within the same job, another worker can replace a worker who is employed for part of a year and then leaves the job, so that the employment as a whole adds up to 12 months. The hours of workers in 2 part-time jobs can be combined to add up to 30 hours a week or more and form the equivalent of one full-time job, as long as the 2 part-time jobs exist for 12 months.

they never said that employees should last for 12 months, they are talking about jobs I think?

[Atif786]

All I wanted to say that if combination of any job title or any employees working hours give you the calculation 30 hours/week through out the periods your claiming points for are fine.
For eg:
Waiter 1- worked for 15 hours in week 1
Cashier - worked for 15 hours in week 2
So how can we combine it to make it 30hours/week as they both worked in different weeks.
My understanding is partime work can only be combined
When it's done within the same week irrespective of how many employees have done it .
That's why HO office has only given examples of combining the part time hours of Diff workers or diif job title worked within the same week.
But let's wait for gurus' input .

[marcnath]

All I wanted to say that if combination of any job title or any employees working hours give you the calculation 30 hours/week through out the periods your claiming points for are fine.
For eg:
Waiter 1- worked for 15 hours in week 1
Cashier - worked for 15 hours in week 2
So how can we combine it to make it 30hours/week as they both worked in different weeks.
My understanding is partime work can only be combined
When it's done within the same week irrespective of how many employees have done it .
That's why HO office has only given examples of combining the part time hours of Diff workers or diif job title worked within the same week.
But let's wait for gurus' input .

Atif - you do raise a point that I had initially thought of would be the approach. But the rules and guidelines do not require the part time jobs to be at the same time.
They only require each of the part time jobs to be present for 12 months.
While it does seem counter intuitive, I believe it is set that way as HO recognises part-time workers are often used and imposing they have to exactly overlap is not practical - you really can't control employee hiring and departures so precisely. So they have provided the flexibility.

[marcnath]

Many thanks zimba88 for your input.

Kindly advise if the following scenario will do the job creating requirements:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

Job No: 1 combined with Job No. 2
Job Title: Job Title 1
Employee 1 = April 2015 to March 2016 (12 months part-time)

Job No: 1 = This is Job No:2, combined with Job No. 1
Job Title: Job Title 2
Employee 2 = Jun 2016 to Jun 2017 (12 months part-time)

Job No: 2 = This is Job No:3, combined with Job No. 4
Job Title: Job Title 3
Employee 1 = Apr 2016 to Feb 2017 (11 months part-time)
Employee 4 = Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 (6 months part-time)

Job No: 2 = This is Job No:4, combined with Job No. 3
Job Title: Job Title 4
Employee 3 = Jun 2016 to Jun 2017 (12 months part-time)

Also last month I hired a full-time employee who is doing 35 hours per week. I am still waiting a reply from my accountant for the worker whose starting date is not confirmed. let suppose he started a month before I joined the business can this full-time employee cover the net increase in employment?
==> Net increase calculation is not clear, but yes, you should anyway include this employee in your submission. When it is not clear in the guidelines, you are free to set out the argument yourself in the cover letter, so feel free to make the argument that it is a net increase.
The worker whose starting date is not confirmed is still with me since last 3 years so I can show that he has done 3 different jobs in last 3 years lasted 12 months each?
As I said before, I believe you can do so as per the rules. However, HO has the right to question it, ask more details about the job and evaluate if it is truly a different job or not. So, while I think they may be flexible for small variations, if they think it is being misused, they do have the possibility of rejecting it, which could require legal challenges

[arnomarga]

Dear All,

My accountant is back from holidays and I did speak with him regarding starting date of first employee which he is going to check tomorrow and will let me know.

I also discussed about the issue that If his joining date is 1 month before I became a director? He said you joined an existing active business so by law you are capable of doing many things without becoming a director. He was telling me something about shareholder that a person can own a company 100% without being a director....

He also said that he can mention in the letter that all the jobs have been created after you joined the business which is true as I always send him an email for the employees to add into payroll. I have checked my emails and I can see that I sent an email at the end of April 2014 for that employee to add so I am not sure when was he actually entered into payroll.

[sm12]

Dear All,

My accountant is back from holidays and I did speak with him regarding starting date of first employee which he is going to check tomorrow and will let me know.

I also discussed about the issue that If his joining date is 1 month before I became a director? He said you joined an existing active business so by law you are capable of doing many things without becoming a director. He was telling me something about shareholder that a person can own a company 100% without being a director....

He also said that he can mention in the letter that all the jobs have been created after you joined the business which is true as I always send him an email for the employees to add into payroll. I have checked my emails and I can see that I sent an email at the end of April 2014 for that employee to add so I am not sure when was he actually entered into payroll.

Yes, a shareholder doesn't have to be a director and vice versa.

And it's better to have the letter explaining the situation. While the caseworker does not have to take it into consideration, he or she might exercise discretion and give you the points.

[arnomarga]

Thanks sm12 for your valuable input.

Today I went to see my accountant and we found out that he moved to Sage now from IRIS since April 2015. He will have to get the IRIS software installed from backup and then he will get the details and FPS reports for that employee. He did check his correspondence files and it seems that joining date for the first employee is 01/05/2014 (felt totally relieved) but I became the director on 05-May-2014 so technically its still count as before I became the director.

My accountant said it should not be a problem and he will give me the letter saying my engagement with the business from April-2014. Do you guys think that caseworker will accept this?

Regarding the Accountant's letter verify that the new posts have been created:

the number of posts created in the business and the hours worked

Does he needs to write about all the employees from joining till Date? Does it mean that he needs to calculate all the hours for all the employees from joining date till the last month or just the 12 months which we are claiming points?

Thanks in advance.

[sm12]

Yes, get all the details added to the letter for all employees.

[marcnath]

That makes thing easier. Since the company had no employees, you will not have FPS for the past 12 months, but will have to provide other evidence such as a P32 for that period. Or some evidence to show there were no employees in the 12 months before you joined (accountant letter, for example)

As for claiming points for your FT employee, I personally think HO will likely accept it, given that it is very clear it is your involvement that led to the hiring. But it is tough to be sure.

The guidelines state:
197. You can only use employment created when you were engaged in the business. If you joined an existing company as a director you may only submit employment created after you joined the company.
There is a bit of contradiction built into this clause, but you can definitely argue that you have been engaged in April. And that is how you should get the accountant to write the letter.

I am repeating what I had said earlier.

There are two elements to your case.
1. Did you create a net increase in jobs ? - now that you have clarified there were no employees before you joined, this is no longer an issue. Even if the employee officially joined before you became a Director, it is not an issue. You have definitely add two more FT employees (on average)
2. Can you claim points for the employee that joined before you became a Director ? - This is where there is a bit of a contradiction. The clause above says "If you joined an existing company as a director...", but you can argue you joined the company even before you became a director (as a shareholder ? or unpaid advisor ?) I am not suggesting you make that argument now, but only if you are questioned. Your accountant letter should state that you were engaged in the business from April

[arnomarga]

Dear All,

Finally the big day has arrived and my extension application has been approved without an interview.

Applied: Nov 2017
Complex Letter: Nov 2017
Visa Approved: 25 May 2017

Thank you everyone especially marcnath & zimba88 who put me towards the right direction.

If I can be of assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me. If you require any information regarding my approval, please feel free to contact me or write in this post.

Best Regards

[umer.shahzad1]

can u share your timeline?

[arnomarga]

can u share your timeline?

Applied: Nov 2017
Complex Letter: Nov 2017
Biometric Given: Nov 2017
Extension Approved: 25-May-2018
IHS Refund: 29-May-2018

[umer.shahzad1]

can u please go in to detail about ur investment ?

[arnomarga]

can u please go in to detail about ur investment ?

£50K

• Director’s Loan Agreement

• Transactions in the Company Business Bank Statements

• Identifiable Transactions from the Personal Bank Statements

• Letter of Investment from Certified Accountant

• An Accounts Compilation Reports

• HMRC Corporation Tax Forms

• Printout of a Companies House registered Office in the UK

[umer.shahzad1]

thnx

[marcnath]

Congratulations !!

What was the final job table you went with.

I am interested in understanding if HO did accept the same employee in two different jobs.

[kaps84]

Congratulations !

Your business type/industry please?

[arnomarga]

Congratulations !!

What was the final job table you went with.

I am interested in understanding if HO did accept the same employee in two different jobs.

Thanks marcnath!

Luckily my accountant put the first employee exactly after I became the director so there was no issue at all for the 4 part timers.

I did not have to use 1 employee for 2 jobs, just 4 part times for 4 different jobs.

Anyway your input was really helpful and once again thank you very much for taking time to write into this post.

[arnomarga]

Congratulations !

Your business type/industry please?

Thanks! It is an IT business and we deals with POS and E-commerce.