2 net increase in staff definitions

[Hoihoi]

Dear Seniors

I invested in an existing company as director and they originally had 3 junior staff but after my investment ..and employing two new manager posts....the original two old staff resigned..

Do my company have to recruit the original two old posts ? We are thinking not to as the two new manager are very capable and can do most of the work after restructuring.

Is there any problem on this..?

[marcnath]

As per the guidelines you would need to. The definition of net increase is not very clear but on your case, you would need to have 5 employees after you joined the business.
How long that should be maintained is not clear. F it is a year I think it will be easy to justify. If it is a month or two, it will probably not be accepted. Anything in between would be in the grey area.
When did the employees resign ?

[Hoihoi]

The two staff resigned on 7 Jan 2017 and the two new managers report duty on 22 Jan 2017 and 30 Jan 2017. We had recruited another new staff to replace one if the junior post in March but that lady only worked for 3 months and resigned...so what I have to do to fullfill the requirement..?

[marcnath]

Ok. You will have to hire two more. Difficult to say for how long but 12 months at least should work. When is your extension due ?
How long were your employees on after you became Director?

[Hoihoi]

I was first landed on 18 June 2016 and registered as director on Early July2016.Then I started to join the director meetings and familiar myself with the company and started my two new posts on 22 and 30 Jan 2017...

To ensure there are 5 posts for the whole year.... I need to start to recruit the two junior posts...and with the two managers and another clerk...for the whole 12 months..e.g from dec 2017 till around Dec 2018...is that ok..if no staff resign again...

[Hoihoi]

Sorry..one more question....can the two old posts change to other nature of work title e.g coordinator change to office assistant..?

[marcnath]

Yes, I would think you can claim a net increase if you hire the additional people for 12 months.
Remember that it is two additional jobs that need to be created, so if a resignation causes a position to remain unfulfilled for a couple of months, you should be able to argue that 5 positions are still there. You can't be sure, but I would think HO will be flexible on that.

For extension, you will be submitting the evidence of the last 5 months for job creation (with 5 jobs) and the job documents for 12 months before you joined in July 2016 (make sure those documents are available), so the net increase is clear.

Change in roles should not matter. All the five positions can be totally new ones.

[Hoihoi]

Sorry I am afraid I misunderstand your point. Since my two new manager reported duty on Jan 2017 ...should I provide their timesheet from Jan 2017 to Jan 2018 and in between this period if there are 5 posts e.g from Mar to june2017 there are 5 posts and from June to Oct only 3 posts and then from Nov to Jan 2018 ..5 posts again...is that acceptable .....i do not want to waste too many money on recruiting staff that may not really needed for the company...

[marcnath]

Now I am totally confused.
Going back to what you have said so far
1. You became director in July 2016 ==> You had three staff when you joined
2. Three existing staff resigned 7 Jan 2017 ==> Staff went down to 1
3. two new managers report duty on 22 Jan 2017 and 30 Jan 2017. ==> Staff went back to three
4. March to June 2017 - 1 replacement ==> 4 staff for three months
5. June 2017 to now ==> 3 staff

So you never had 5 staff

What did I get wrong ?

[teddybear79]

if you have joined an existing business you have to provide last 12 months fps (before you become director) and then increase net 2 employees.



I was in the same boat so I started a new company along with old and transferred employees to that

[marcnath]

if you have joined an existing business you have to provide last 12 months fps (before you become director) and then increase net 2 employees.



I was in the same boat so I started a new company along with old and transferred employees to that

That is an interesting way to deal with that.
Was your investment in the old company or new one ?
You could start a new company, transfer the employees to that one and the new company could still provide the service to the old one.
This would, however, be totally contradictory to the intent of the T1E route to create new jobs.
Has your extension been approved ? Depending on the circumstances, I would think HO could still find that you do not meet the "net increase" criteria, especially if you have submitted information about the old business also.

[Hoihoi]

Yes..you are right ...i never have five staff at the office as the new replacement resigned in June..

But what i really true is that we created two new posts and just by incidents ..the old staff resigned and the replacement resigned for only working for few months...

what should I do to cut down the cost but at the same time fullfill the requirement safely...

Can I employ the two replacements 5 to 6 months before my submission of application for extension..? Would that be okay..?

[marcnath]

Yes..you are right ...i never have five staff at the office as the new replacement resigned in June..

But what i really true is that we created two new posts and just by incidents ..the old staff resigned and the replacement resigned for only working for few months...

what should I do to cut down the cost but at the same time fullfill the requirement safely...

Can I employ the two replacements 5 to 6 months before my submission of application for extension..? Would that be okay..?

There are two requirements:
1. You should have created two new positions - you easily meet that
2. There should be a net increase of 2 jobs before and after joining. Since the definitions are not clear, can't really say what would be ok. If there are others in this forum with first hand experience, I am sure they will comment. My approach to this would be to do the best I can (e.g. 5-6 months before extension) and proactively set out my arguments when I apply for extension stating that I have met the requirements. It is then up to HO to prove my interpretation is wrong and I think they mostly won't unless they suspect you are doing something deceptive. As I said, I think they will not have any grounds if it is one year with 5 jobs.

[Hoihoi]

Thank you for your comment..it seems that having 5 staff at one time together for 12 months is the most safe....while only employing another two replacements staff 5 to 6 months juit just before extension is a bit risky....

I need to get the support of other directors in my company...hope it is okay...

May I ask in this case I employ two replacements and having 5 staff in the office from Nov 2017 to Nov 2018...then go back to 3 staff....

Would that be a problem if there are only 3 staff 5 months before my submission..?

[zimba]

It is net increase in POSITIONS in the company NOT staff. We have discussed many times that a position is NOT about staff/employees working but a vacancy in the company.
This simply means that when you join an existing company, you must always maintain/create two EXTRA positions in ADDITION to what has already been created.

[marcnath]

Thank you for your comment..it seems that having 5 staff at one time together for 12 months is the most safe....while only employing another two replacements staff 5 to 6 months juit just before extension is a bit risky....

I need to get the support of other directors in my company...hope it is okay...

May I ask in this case I employ two replacements and having 5 staff in the office from Nov 2017 to Nov 2018...then go back to 3 staff....

Would that be a problem if there are only 3 staff 5 months before my submission..?

If the business needs only three people 5 mnths before submission, I can't see HO dictating how you run your business - they can only challenge you on whether you meet the requirements or not. Anyway, if you have 5 people for 12 months, that is the only documents you will be submitting, so they can't easily figure out about what happens beyond that.