Dependant refused/another CAS needed?

[Peted]

Hi everyone!
I got my entry clearance approved. However, my dependant's was refused. We submitted only a civil partner affidavit, and they found it insufficient to prove the relationship is subsisting. We thought it was enough. It was not.
We're thinking that he should apply again with lots of evidence that we've been in a relationship, living together, for over 3 years. In his application form as a Tier 4 dependant, there's a section requiring my CAS (main applicant). However, the rules state a CAS can only be used once. My questions are:

1) Is it a problem that he applies right now, to go with me in January? Any chance to get approved if we submit all the evidence?

2) Is a new CAS necessary?

I've asked my university this question. But they won't reply before Monday. If anyone can comment on the situation, please do so.

Thank you!

[Peted]

Could somebody please clarify?

I got entry clearance as a Tier 4 student. My partner was refused because we only submitted one document and ECO found it insufficient evidence of lasting relationship.

I'm going to enter the UK only in January.

Can my partner reapply now so that he can go with me?

I've read the rules 319C... But didn't quite understand whether he can reapply now.

[sah10406]

1) Is it a problem that he applies right now, to go with me in January?

No.

Any chance to get approved if we submit all the evidence?

Yes, if the evidence is correct and complete. I am not clear why he submitted an affidavit rather than your actual civil partnership certificate. Unless he is not your civil partner at all, but actually your unmarried partner and he misunderstood what is meant by "civil partner". If you are unmarried partners, he needs evidence of you living together in a relationship akin to marriage or civil partnership for at least 2 years.

2) Is a new CAS necessary?

No.

[Peted]

Any chance to get approved if we submit all the evidence?

Yes, if the evidence is correct and complete. I am not clear why he submitted an affidavit rather than your actual civil partnership certificate. Unless he is not your civil partner at all, but actually your unmarried partner and he misunderstood what is meant by "civil partner.
[/quote]

Thank you!

I think this is exactly what happened. We thought we were civil partners because we have this long and detailed affidavit prepared and signed by a nottary and us. That's why he chose "civil partner" in the submission. In the decision, the ECO stated he'd applied as "unmarried partner" though, which we found strange considering the option he had filled in the form (civil partners). I guess now, in the next application, he'll have to fill in with the correct information, i.e. "unmarried same-sex partners". It was all due to our lack of understanding between "affidavit of same-sex partners" and "civil partner certificate".

Given that this will contrast with the previous application, isn't it possible that they consider it as deception?

[sah10406]

Given that this will contrast with the previous application, isn't it possible that they consider it as deception?

No.

[Peted]

In his fist attempt, he submitted a letter from my financial sponsor, which is the government of our country. The sponsorship covers all my (the student) tuition fees and also maintenance for both of us. I submitted thecsame letter and got my entry clearance. His was refused as above. The letter is dated September 2017.

Can he submit this same letter again in the next application?

[sah10406]

Can he submit this same letter again in the next application?

The requirements for the letter are listed in paragraphs 88 to 94 of the PBS Dependant Policy Guidance. As long as the letter meets all of those, it is fine.

[Peted]

You're always being so helpful. Thanks.

We have been living together for far longer than 2 years. However, there's no same utility bill at the same time in my name and also his name. The same goes for tenancy agreements (always in my name). What kind of document could we then supply as proof that we've been living together this long? Would, for example, different bills (e.g. electricity and telephone), one in my name and one in his name be helpful? In this case, is it necessary to provide two of each (one in my name and one in his name) for every single month throughout the (at least) 2 years? This is perfectly possible, but since all the documents need to be officially translated in full, it's going to cost a fortune! A letter from the Real Estate declaring that I am the tenant and that he is living with me would be helpful, in addition to bills covering every other month or so?

Sorry, too many questions.

[sah10406]

What kind of document could we then supply as proof that we've been living together this long?

There is no guidance about this specifically for PBS Partners, but the guidance for the unmarried partners of settled people is useful for suggesting what an ECO would expect to see.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ners-set05

See paragraph 13, What types of evidence might demonstrate living together and a relationship akin to marriage / civil partnership?

[Peted]

What kind of document could we then supply as proof that we've been living together this long?

There is no guidance about this specifically for PBS Partners, but the guidance for the unmarried partners of settled people is useful for suggesting what an ECO would expect to see.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ners-set05

See paragraph 13, What types of evidence might demonstrate living together and a relationship akin to marriage / civil partnership?

Thank you! I'd never think of looking at what's expected from other types of visas. That's very hard to meet because of the 3 different sources and at least some with both names at the same time. We'll do all we can.

[sah10406]

I'd never think of looking at what's expected from other types of visas.

To clarify, normally you shouldn't. But for this very specific matter, where there is no equivalent guidance for PBS dependants on what the Home Office means by an "unmarried partner" or "same-sex partner" and how it is evidenced, it is the only thing you can do.

That's very hard to meet because of the 3 different sources and at least some with both names at the same time. We'll do all we can.

It's assumed that people who are genuinely co-habiting will have shared resources. It is reasonable, but there may be local arrangements or concessions that take into account the way things work in your country. I advise you get advice locally.

[Peted]

I'd never think of looking at what's expected from other types of visas.

To clarify, normally you shouldn't. But for this very specific matter, where there is no equivalent guidance for PBS dependants on what the Home Office means by an "unmarried partner" or "same-sex partner" and how it is evidenced, it is the only thing you can do.

That's very hard to meet because of the 3 different sources and at least some with both names at the same time. We'll do all we can.

It's assumed that people who are genuinely co-habiting will have shared resources. It is reasonable, but there may be local arrangements or concessions that take into account the way things work in your country. I advise you get advice locally.

His car anual tax have been paid in my bank account in the last three years. The receipts show both our nnames and the dates. He has a credit card which is linked to mine and the bill shows this. We'll submit these as well. Hope it is possible that it's seen as some evidence.

Thanks a lot!

[sah10406]

Given the previous refusal, and the fact that his evidence might not be exactly what they expect to see, he might want to get professional advice on his new application.

[Peted]

We have decided that he won't reapply before we're officially married.
Given the previous refusal, we'll send evidence of our genuine and subsisting relationship along with the marriage certificate.
We're getting professional advice, but please say anything else you believe could be important. And thank you very much.

[Peted]

Pictures of the wedding in application. Good idea? Bad idea? Irrelevant?

[sah10406]

Pictures of the wedding in application. Good idea? Bad idea? Irrelevant?

Irrelevant. What would it add that is not already shown by the marriage certificate?

[Peted]

Thank you Sah! The dependant is going to provide a bank statement of my savings.
Is it necessary to explain where the money is coming from (e.g. my payslips)?

[sah10406]

Thank you Sah! The dependant is going to provide a bank statement of my savings.
Is it necessary to explain where the money is coming from (e.g. my payslips)?

The evidence they need is explained in the PBS Dependant policy guidance, pages 17 to 19.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rs-1-2-4-5

[Samily]

Thank you Sah! The dependant is going to provide a bank statement of my savings.
Is it necessary to explain where the money is coming from (e.g. my payslips)?

Hi Peted, please i have a question about telling that you were ovarstayer in past. have you mention that in your application or you just said NO without any further info

[Peted]

I answered all the questions I was asked truthfully, simply and directly.

[Peted]

Jeeze!

I know this question is going to sound stupid, but I'm having a hard time with it, and understanding how this 28 period work may define whether or not my dependant will be able to travel with me to the UK by the end of the year.

The guidance states that, if funds for the maintenance of the PBS dependant is to be shown with a bank statement, the required amount has to have been available for 28 consecutive days. However, how exactly are these 28 days counted? For example, on the 1st of November there was the sufficient funds and the amount did not drop until the date of the application (the day it's paid online, whichever it is). In this case, is the 1st of november counted? Is the date the statement is issued also counted?) I'm sorry if this sounds too simple, but I need clarification on this.

The crucial question is: Since the amount became available on the 1st of November, from which exact date can the statement be provided by the bank in a way that it proves the money was held for 28 days?

Thank you!

[sah10406]

The guidance states that, if funds for the maintenance of the PBS dependant is to be shown with a bank statement, the required amount has to have been available for 28 consecutive days. However, how exactly are these 28 days counted?

From day 1 to day 28, on your fingers if necessary

For example, on the 1st of November there was the sufficient funds and the amount did not drop until the date of the application (the day it's paid online, whichever it is). In this case, is the 1st of november counted?

Wow you are making this very complicated, and it really isn't. If 1 November was the first day the money was available, that is day 1 of the 28 days.

Is the date the statement is issued also counted?)

If that happens to be day 28, yes.

The crucial question is: Since the amount became available on the 1st of November, from which exact date can the statement be provided by the bank in a way that it proves the money was held for 28 days?

Dude. You are really over-thinking this. See my other answers above.

[Peted]

Thank you Sah10406!

Your comments have made me laugh at myself, along with some embarrassment
The money transfer I made from my current account to my savings that was necessary to reach the minimum for the dependant's maintenance took place on 3 November (the 1 November thing was just an example to make it easier to talk about). Actually, my financial sponsorship is enough for all my tuition fees and maintenance, as well as for his maintenance as well. However, the letter of sponsorship does not state the dependant's name, but rather only what is for my dependant without mentioning his name. This is the only think in my letter that is not in accordance to the requirements, and that's why we're also supplying the bank statement.

In any case, I will wait for a whole month from 3 November before I ask the bank for the statement. This may mean he will have to go to the UK after me (the visa may not arrive in time for him to travel with me).

Thanks a lot!

[sah10406]

However, the letter of sponsorship does not state the dependant's name, but rather only what is for my dependant without mentioning his name. This is the only think in my letter that is not in accordance to the requirements, and that's why we're also supplying the bank statement.

What requirements are you reading that say the letter must include his name?

[Peted]

The PBS dependant guidance, page 19, under "Official financial sponsorship or government sponsor"