Upper tribunal dismissed

[Vaksa]

My appeal was dismissed at upper tribunal , my lawyer says nothing he can do !!!
Shortly I have 2 children 9.5 , and 7 , both were born here , me and my husband from different countries , overstayed , trying to regulise ourselves for last 5 years , spent fortune to lawyers and court , now upper tribunal dissmissed !! Can we be deported , I have only to my children now about the situation , both crying say they want to live here , what have I done , it's not their fault Please help

[2017Freedom]

Try to submit a fresh claim based on private family life ( even I'm sorry I don't know all the circumstances ) but at least you have to have some sort of application in ..

[sam550]

My appeal was dismissed at upper tribunal , my lawyer says nothing he can do !!!
Shortly I have 2 children 9.5 , and 7 , both were born here , me and my husband from different countries , overstayed , trying to regulise ourselves for last 5 years , spent fortune to lawyers and court , now upper tribunal dissmissed !! Can we be deported , I have only to my children now about the situation , both crying say they want to live here , what have I done , it's not their fault Please help

You need to write your full timeline before anyone can give you advice on here.

[Obie]

Why did they refuse you. Unless you have a poor immigration history, or your lawyer was too crap or the judge was too mean-spirited, i thing it was harsh for your appeal to have been dismissed.

Probably need to save up for a section 1(4) application for the 9 years 5 months old. That may improve the prospect of success.

[vinny]

Did they refuse the children too or just the parents?

[Vaksa]

Ok basically I came to uk on student visa in 2004 , , met my now husband then , he was overstayed , we got married in 2008 , had a first child , applies for him in 2009 , they refused .
Then other child came along in 2010 , I still had a visa till 2011 , for some idiotic reasons I didn't extend it then .
In 2012 we applied for family outside in migration rules , my daughter as them 5 , and my husband was here 9.5 years.
So they have refused because :
1.the child is not 7
2. He not in the U.K. For 14 years .

Ok , we have aplied with a good lawyer , as it seemed .
Refusal .
1. Yes the child is 7 , so what , it's still reasonable for all your family to relocate , even though we both from different counties .
2. You need to be in the country for 20 years !!???? ?!!!
Where is any humanity ?
No right to sppeal , had a Judge review , then applied to first tier tribunal had a court after one year of waiting .
Had the meanest judge in the whale world , I cried in the court , he said no .
Dismissed .
Sent the desission within few weeks .
Applied to upper tribunal , they have refused , said the judge didn't make any error.
So I spoke to my children on Friday when received a letter . They are very confused " mummy why do we need to be ckicked out of the country , we are British right , we were born here "
I can't explain the feeling .
What do I do where is the justice , human rights , they are not 3!!! My daughter is 9.4 , and my son is 7.3 . They couldn't sleep last night , this isn't they're fault , they belong here , they obviously speak English between themselves .
Fresh application probably wouldn't make any difference , as first born is not 10 .

[Vaksa]

Oh yes , and in our human rights application we had a judge who is a part time criminal judge !

My question is what can I do now , is there anything at all ? At the moment I can't just leave , my kids said they wouldn't leave their friends here

[Vaksa]

We are already been going to sign every month to the home office , what would happen now , will they ask us to leave , or we can be deported ? Can they come to us , as obviously they know the address , what would my children feel if that happens ??the lawyer said technically they can !

[Obie]

Did you not compile an expert report explaining the effect of removal on the child?

It is an error of law for a judge to simply say it is normal for child to return with parents. He or she is required to give reasons weighing against you.

The caselaw states that the fact that they have lived here for 7 years is a fact which should be given significant weight and that absent any countervailing factors, there is a presumption that leave will be granted.

If the judge failed to adopt such approach, then he or she erred in law.

[Vaksa]

It says 7 years , but it's still reasonable for a child to live the country with both parents . And he included the case with Pakistan I can't remember the name , now the upper tribunal came back as no error was made , its like everyone is against me

[vinny]

Doesn’t look hopeful.

[Vaksa]

But there is always a way ! Must be something we can do

[bella27]

Almost similar to our situation never loose hope you should apply FLR PP , for me i never talk to my kids i did want to confused them even on meeting HO ask us if we have tell them we say no we can not as the believe their British. we was put on reporting every two week then it was change to six mth . we still waiting for our FLR application but our daughter was granted 30 mth she will be 10 this march.

[vinny]

but our daughter was granted 30 mth she will be 10 this march.

If she was born in the UK, then register her when she’s 10.

[Vaksa]

Wow , thanks for that , why only 30 months ? She should be British , and you didn't get anything ??
Any permit , its rediculous how they not considering children's interests al all , and say they do !

[Vaksa]

She was born here in the uk , but she would be 10 in October , what do we do now?

[bella27]

but our daughter was granted 30 mth she will be 10 this march.

If she was born in the UK, then register her when she’s 10.

Thank you for the link, she was born here and she never go any where.

[Vaksa]

The problem is we have applied for FLR when she was 7 , and were refused , as it's reasonable , and the court refused but she is now 9,5 and she said she would stay to leave here with her friend , this would be a very stressful seruanion for her

[Obie]

That is inconsistent with the law. If children are granted leave, so should parents, otherwise the children's rights could not be properly exercised.

[Vaksa]

Any suggestions for our case please , if we haven't got any valid application , and we can't apply for my daughter to register her a british before October , can we be ckicked out of the country ??

[bella27]

In our case we did not have money for all family of 5 , so we only pay for our daughter with cover letter for to consider us , but never consider even to mention us, after the grant her we thought we could wait for us to apply when she become British but we was not able to wait as they send letter for revocation of my driving licence we did not have choice is to make application. You have to do something on our case they was moving very faster every week sad letter it was hard time.

[Vaksa]

Oh Dear , thanks for the info

[Obie]

Doesn’t look hopeful.

In all honesty, i am not sure those two cases highlighted are authority. In the case of the first, there is the second appeal test question. The Cart Criteria was met. In the case of the Second, Judge Southern case is not an authority, and in my view it does not appear to have applied the case law according to its letter and spirit.

I believe the leading case in this matter is, MA (Pakistan).

[vinny]

Thanks, Obie.

Yes. That’s the authority.

The OP had mentioned

It says 7 years , but it's still reasonable for a child to live the country with both parents . And he included the case with Pakistan I can't remember the name , now the upper tribunal came back as no error was made , its like everyone is against me

I was searching for cases with parents of different nationalities to see if there was anything useful or helpful.

even though we both from different counties .

[Vaksa]

Guess it was bad luck !