Renunciation - Form X - Pakistan

[Surrender1970]

I’m a non-Muslim American who was born in Pakistan but left when I was a year old.
I recently decided to surrender my Pakistani nationality after realizing that I will never visit or live in Pakistan.
As per the nationality law of 1951 I’ve submitted all required documentation to the Pakistan Embassy in Washington, DC. The Embassy has twice rejected my application.

They want me to get a NADRA issued ID first. I have an old manual ID card but they won’t process my application without a CNIC or NiCOP.

Next, i contacted NADRA by phone and email on several occasions. They say that since I’m trying to renounce my citizenship, and the fact that I don’t hold a NADRA identification, I should contact the Ministry (of Interior) and that they don’t need to be involved. The Embassy insists that I get a NICOP first. So I tried to apply for the NICOP and guess what? It’s a flawed application process that doesn’t account for an overseas Pakistani who doesn’t have “verifiers.” You need two Pakistani NADRA ID holders to sponsor you and your parents have to have held a NADRA ID number as well. Otherwise you can’t move forward with the application. Because I’m not a Muslim, I’ve never been accepted by Pakistanis and hence have never had Pakistani friends and don’t know my relatives. My long-deceased parents never held NADRA 13 digit ID numbers either.

NADRA says that despite the fact that I have an old expired passport and manual ID card, both of which are proof of my Pakistani citizenship, they won’t issue a NICOP to me without the verifiers.

Next, I emailed the DGIP directly and as expected they’ve not responded to me.

So not only will the Pakistani government not issue valid citizenship documents to me, they also won’t let me renounce my citizenship.

Has anybody else had this problem before?

I’m thinking about mailing the renunciation package directly to DGIP in Islamabad and forget about ever receiving that valuable Certificate of Renunciation.

[abhisheks9]

even if you get "verifiers" you still can't move ahead since your parents never had NADRA ID?
why are you concerned as you anyway will never visit or live in Pakistan? don't lose your mind over this if nothing works out

[Surrender1970]

My parents were born in India. I see myself wanting to visit India to rediscover part or my heritage. Unfortunately, Indian authorities won’t grant a visa to a Pakistani born US citizen without a renunciation certificate from Pakistan.

Also, having a renunciation certificate makes it easier to apply for certain jobs that scrutinize dual nationals.

[abhisheks9]

Indian authorities won’t grant a visa to a Pakistani born US citizen without a renunciation certificate from Pakistan.

won't grant citizenship, Not that Visa is denied simply for this fact
many Pakistanis visit India and many Sikhs, muslims visit Pakistan, but having Pakistani citizenship will bar you from OCI or indian nationality, wont create problem for visa itself.
If you ever apply for Indian visa, explain your situation to embassy/consulate/VFS

[takdeerwala]

Indian authorities won’t grant a visa to a Pakistani born US citizen without a renunciation certificate from Pakistan.

won't grant citizenship, Not that Visa is denied simply for this fact
many Pakistanis visit India and many Sikhs, muslims visit Pakistan, but having Pakistani citizenship will bar you from OCI or indian nationality, wont create problem for visa itself.
If you ever apply for Indian visa, explain your situation to embassy/consulate/VFS

In future, Indian NRIs who are outside India for years and do not have Aadhaar Card are going to face the same problems. Every document will require aadhaar card number. If you remember, even OCI application had column for aadhaar card. Indians who immigrated before 2013 and did not return to India since that time will not have aadhaar card.

[Surrender1970]

Interesting thought about India and it’s possible.

I know in my case, they may have paper records on me, but in their electronic database of record (NADRA) I don’t exist. Which is why in order for me to renounce / surrender my nationality, I first have to prove to NADRA that I’m a bonafide Pakistani national and obtain valid documentation.

This may work out in my favor. I’ve added a statement of disloyalty to my paperwork which I’ll mail directly to Islamabad. Hoping they do with me what they did with xxxxx. They likely canceled his citizenship, but refused to provide a renunciation certificate.

[abhisheks9]

Interesting thought about India and it’s possible.

I know in my case, they may have paper records on me, but in their electronic database of record (NADRA) I don’t exist. Which is why in order for me to renounce / surrender my nationality, I first have to prove to NADRA that I’m a bonafide Pakistani national and obtain valid documentation.

This may work out in my favor. I’ve added a statement of disloyalty to my paperwork which I’ll mail directly to Islamabad. Hoping they do with me what they did with xxxxxx. They likely canceled his citizenship, but refused to provide a renunciation certificate.

Meanwhile also try to reach out to Indian Home Ministry with your situation?
Tweet xxxxxxxxx, who for sake of media browny points will take up your case?

[CR001]

Can members posting in this topic kindly refrain from naming individuals as their names will appear in a Google search and they have not given permission for their names to be posted on a public immigration forum.

[takdeerwala]

@abhisheks9 Dual Nationality Pakistani Citizens will need to submit Pakistan passport while applying for Indian Visa. in this case where that Passport is not valid, it is very difficult to get Visa.
Normally lot of people do visit each other country for family reasons, visiting relatives or religious pilgrimages. With Dual Nationality, it becomes difficult.

I have a question for OP. When you moved to USA from pakistan as a 1 year old child, you had your own passport or were you an addition on your Mother's passport ? In those days, children were many times added in their parent passport. How old were you when you acquired American citizenship? When you became US citizen, was there an option of renouncing Pakistani Citizenship at that moment only?
Country of Birth will always be there in Foreign passport, employment, Bank documents even after renounciation !!!!

[Surrender1970]

I acquired US naturalization later in my teens. Until then I held a Pakistani Passport and also the old 11 digit manual national ID card. Founding of NADRA came after I had been naturalized and abandoned Pakistani citizenship.
As I’ve posted before, and without elaborating too much, certain jobs, and even Indian visa on a US passport with place of birth as Pakistan, require a “Certificate of Renunciation” There is a reason for this.

In certain nations, like Germany, you’re required to provide a Certificate of Renunciation before you acquire a Reisepass. But in the US, there is no such requirement since the understanding is that your former citizenship is in your past.

I mailed my renunciation package directly to the Ministry of Interior in Islamabad with the hope that they will at the very least “register” my renunciation, even if they don’t provide me with a renunciation certificate.

Many countries have a pretty straightforward renunciation process with an in-person interview with a consular officer. None of this bizarre and bureaucratic process that Pakistan has.

[wd06]

even if you get "verifiers" you still can't move ahead since your parents never had NADRA ID?
why are you concerned as you anyway will never visit or live in Pakistan? don't lose your mind over this if nothing works out

This is false. One can obtain a NADRA ID based on their parents' Pakistani origin even if they do not have NADRA IDs.

[wd06]

I acquired US naturalization later in my teens. Until then I held a Pakistani Passport and also the old 11 digit manual national ID card. Founding of NADRA came after I had been naturalized and abandoned Pakistani citizenship.
As I’ve posted before, and without elaborating too much, certain jobs, and even Indian visa on a US passport with place of birth as Pakistan, require a “Certificate of Renunciation” There is a reason for this.

In certain nations, like Germany, you’re required to provide a Certificate of Renunciation before you acquire a Reisepass. But in the US, there is no such requirement since the understanding is that your former citizenship is in your past.

I mailed my renunciation package directly to the Ministry of Interior in Islamabad with the hope that they will at the very least “register” my renunciation, even if they don’t provide me with a renunciation certificate.

Many countries have a pretty straightforward renunciation process with an in-person interview with a consular officer. None of this bizarre and bureaucratic process that Pakistan has.

Which consulate are you dealing with?

[Surrender1970]

I'm an American with Pakistani citizenship by birth. I've tried to renounce my Pakistani citizenship several times through the Pakistan Embassy in Washington DC but they keep telling me to apply for a NICOP / CNIC first. I never had an ID with NADRA because I had the old National ID card and I haven't visited Pakistan in decades. I'd like to renounce my citizenship for certain reasons which I won't discuss. I explained to the embassy that if I'm trying to renounce my citizenship, why would I go through the hassle of acquiring a new National ID card NICOP through NADRA? That process is to establish and legitimize citizenship, but I'm trying to give it up. I did try to get one (NICOP) but they wouldn't process my application at NADRA without two "verifiers." Those verifiers have to be Pakistani citizens. I don't know any Pakistanis and the only relatives I have live in the West and abandoned their Pakistani citizenship a long time ago. So I can't get a NICOP and the Embassy won't forward my application to DGIP / IMPASS in Islamabad. The experience was very frustrating because I have heard of citizens of other countries who simply had to show up to their country's foreign mission and renounce with a Consular Officer. So why does Pakistan make it so difficult? I haven't been to Pakistan in decades and I'll never go there since non-Muslims like me are discriminated against. I took all the paperwork I had and mailed it directly to IMPASS through a courier service. It was delivered but IMPASS won't respond to my e-mails on the status of my renunciation. It has now been a few years. Anybody know why the Pakistanis make this process so hard?

[secret.simon]

I have merged your previous thread and this post so that respondents have a fuller understanding of your situation.

[dw2006]

I'm an American with Pakistani citizenship by birth. I've tried to renounce my Pakistani citizenship several times through the Pakistan Embassy in Washington DC but they keep telling me to apply for a NICOP / CNIC first. I never had an ID with NADRA because I had the old National ID card and I haven't visited Pakistan in decades. I'd like to renounce my citizenship for certain reasons which I won't discuss. I explained to the embassy that if I'm trying to renounce my citizenship, why would I go through the hassle of acquiring a new National ID card NICOP through NADRA? That process is to establish and legitimize citizenship, but I'm trying to give it up. I did try to get one (NICOP) but they wouldn't process my application at NADRA without two "verifiers." Those verifiers have to be Pakistani citizens. I don't know any Pakistanis and the only relatives I have live in the West and abandoned their Pakistani citizenship a long time ago. So I can't get a NICOP and the Embassy won't forward my application to DGIP / IMPASS in Islamabad. The experience was very frustrating because I have heard of citizens of other countries who simply had to show up to their country's foreign mission and renounce with a Consular Officer. So why does Pakistan make it so difficult? I haven't been to Pakistan in decades and I'll never go there since non-Muslims like me are discriminated against. I took all the paperwork I had and mailed it directly to IMPASS through a courier service. It was delivered but IMPASS won't respond to my e-mails on the status of my renunciation. It has now been a few years. Anybody know why the Pakistanis make this process so hard?

If you go to a consulate or embassy in person, they may be able to accept your application and provide you with a letter acknowledging that you submitted an application. Provide them with photocopies of your documents proving your citizenship along with the required forms. You can tell them you understand that you do not have all the requirements that the embassy wants, but you want to submit it and see if it goes through. Whether it is accepted or not is a separate issue. You will still be in this limbo state of technically a citizen but with a pending renunciation application, but at least you have proof that you started the process.

You were born in Pakistan, have an old passport, and manual ID card, so you are obviously a Pakistani citizen. Pakistani citizenship is not lost unless it is explicitly renounced. Your relatives in the West (who abandoned their citizenship long ago) are likely still Pakistani citizens unless they went through this renunciation process that you are going through. They may even have NICOPs or CNICs.

You need to find two Pakistani citizens with CNIC/NICOP numbers. If you keep asking around, you will eventually find two people. Ask your relatives, far relatives, ask if they know anyone, etc. Cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. It is hard to believe that you would not be able to find two people, considering how big the Pakistani community is in the US. There are many non-Muslim Pakistanis in the US as well.