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Information regarding spouse visa

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Hasan1980
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Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:51 am

Hello everyone

My friend is British citizen and divorced..she wants to marry with pakistani man who lives in Pakistan and he is married and has Childern and wife in Pakistan..

My questions are;

1) If she gets marry in Pakistan her marriage will be valid in UK or not and can she sponcer him after marriage for settelment visa from Pakistan..does she needs to register her marriage in Pak or not ?because she wants to register her marriage in UK ..what will be the requirements? if she applied from Pak and chances of success??

2) if the man comes in UK on student visa and they both get married in UK ..is this possible for British woman who want to marry a man who will be on student visa and married in Pak? ...can she marry in uk with him and basis of marriage ? can he switch from student visa to spouse dependent visa?
Which route is better for them ?
Plz guide me I would be very thankful ..

vinny
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by vinny » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:20 am

1) 14. SET3.14 Assessment of validity of marriage.

2) If Tier 4 (General) visa is longer than six months and satisfying other requirements, then it's possible to switch to FLR(M).
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:08 am

Thanks Vinny for quick response....I wanted to know
One thing more...
The man is married in Pak..is his married status has any effect on his 2nd marriage which is going to be with British lady....

Which will be better option

1) marriage in Pak then apply for settelment visa from Pakistan
2) marriage in UK while he will be on student visa then apply for settelment visa from within uk

in both cases which one is more suitable for them ..
Can British lady marry to married man from Pak on student visa in UK ?
Plz guide me
Thanks for ur help

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Casa
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Casa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:28 am

Hasan1980 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:08 am
Thanks Vinny for quick response....I wanted to know
One thing more...
The man is married in Pak..is his married status has any effect on his 2nd marriage which is going to be with British lady....

Which will be better option

1) marriage in Pak then apply for settelment visa from Pakistan
2) marriage in UK while he will be on student visa then apply for settelment visa from within uk

in both cases which one is more suitable for them ..
Can British lady marry to married man from Pak on student visa in UK ?
Plz guide me
Thanks for ur help
Neither option will be possible while he is still married to another woman. Under British law, the second marriage won't be recognised and it is illegal to marry in the UK while either of the couple are not legally divorced. from a previous relationship.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:04 am

Thank you very much casa for ur advice..

Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:19 am

If the woman doesn't want to register her marriage in pak... beacause she want to register her marriage in UK..then what is the procedure for settelment visa from Pakistan??

Thanks for ur time

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Casa
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Casa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:31 am

Your question isn't clear. IF the man is legally divorced in his home country he can apply for a fiance visa to marry within 6 months in the UK. That's assuming as the sponsor, your friend has a minimum annual earnings of £18,600 or has £62,500 in savings held in an accessible account for at least 6 months. All the standard requirements will also have to be met, including A1 level English and proof of a genuine relationship.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse

Have they met in person?
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:57 am

Yes they have met in person...the lady went in Pak to meet him..

The man doesn't want to divorce his first wife in Pakistan...he wants to keep them in Pakistan..but the British lady still wants to marry him and bring him in UK ...she wants to know the UK law according to her point of veiw ...can she marry a married man in Pakistan and apply stelment visa for him from Pakistan will be easy or it's better if man came here in UK on student visa then they get married and apply for settelment visa from UK...

Thanks for ur time and advice

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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:59 am

They are both required to complete the form and declare that they 'are free to marry' and if previously married, submit evidence of a divorce decree.
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Casa
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Casa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:03 pm

Hasan1980 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:57 am

The man doesn't want to divorce his first wife in Pakistan...he wants to keep them in Pakistan..but the British lady still wants to marry him and bring him in UK ...
In which case as already been explained in detail your friend is unable to marry a man who is not divorced from his first wife, either through a settlement visa or after entering on a Tier 4 student visa.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

vinny
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by vinny » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:10 pm

See also Polygamous / potential polygamous marriage: SET14 and Annex FM 1.4: polygamous and potentially polygamous marriages.

Polygamy in the United Kingdom.

From flowchart:
"Was there anything in the law of either party’s country of domicile (see SET15 Domicile) that restricted his/her freedom to enter the marriage?" > "Yes" > "Marriage not valid in the UK".
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:51 pm

Sorry I forgotten to tell u one important thing..
The British lady has dual nationalty she has Pakistani passport and identity card as well..

So if she marry that man in Pakistan...according to Islamic law in Pakistan she can marry a married man over there..and man also keep 2nd wife over there...

UK recongnise the multiple marriage in these countries which are leagal in Pakistan..

For example if British man has 2 wives in Pakistan ..he is allowed to bring anyone from them in UK or he is allowed to bring only his first wife to UK..

But in my friend case is different ...she is British pakistani..if her husband has 2 wives one is Pakistani national another has dual nationalty so why can't she bring her husband in UK ...
Plz need ur opnion ..

Thanks for ur time and help casa,Vinny cr001..

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Casa
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Casa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:57 pm

Hasan1980 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:51 pm
Sorry I forgotten to tell u one important thing..
The British lady has dual nationalty she has Pakistani passport and identity card as well..

So if she marry that man in Pakistan...according to Islamic law in Pakistan she can marry a married man over there..and man also keep 2nd wife over there...

UK recongnise the multiple marriage in these countries which are leagal in Pakistan.. No they don't.

For example if British man has 2 wives in Pakistan ..he is allowed to bring anyone from them in UK or he is allowed to bring only his first wife to UK.. Only the first wife.

But in my friend case is different ...she is British pakistani..if her husband has 2 wives one is Pakistani national another has dual nationalty so why can't she bring her husband in UK ...
Plz need ur opnion .. Because she holds British nationality. Having dual nationality doesn't give any exemption under British law.

Thanks for ur time and help casa,Vinny cr001..
Your friend could of course move to Pakistan and live as a second wife there. :idea:
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

secret.simon
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by secret.simon » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:03 pm

Hasan1980 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:51 pm
The British lady has dual nationalty she has Pakistani passport and identity card as well..
It is not nationality that is relevant in such cases (of deciding whether a marriage is valid or not), it is domicile. Domicile is generally considered as "the place which a person regards as his / her permanent home and with which he / she has the closest ties".
In law nobody is without a domicile: every person has one (and only one) at any given time. Generally a person can only have a domicile within a territory subject to a single system of law. This means that generally a person cannot, for example, be domiciled in the UK, but can be domiciled in England and Wales, or in Scotland, or in Northern Ireland.

Domicile is relevant in assessing polygamous / potentially polygamous marriages and divorces;
If the British/Pakistani citizen was born in the UK, her domicile of origin would be the part of the UK that she was born in.

If either one of the parties to a marriage abroad was domiciled in England and Wales at the time of the marriage, and there was a lawful impediment in English law (such as already lawfully married or a civil partner), the marriage could not be recognised in England and Wales.

The recognition under the law of England or Wales, or Scotland, or Northern Ireland, of any marriage which took place outside the UK is governed by the following three questions:
  • Is the type of marriage one recognised in the country in which it took place?
  • Was the actual marriage properly executed so as to satisfy the requirements of the law of the country in which it took place?
  • Was there anything in the law of either party’s country of domicile that restricted his / her freedom to enter the marriage?
If the answers to the above questions are respectively ‘yes’, ‘yes’ and ‘no’, only then will the marriage be treated as a marriage for the purpose of the ‘spouse’ paragraphs of the Rules.

As the British/Pakistani dual citizen is likely domiciled in one of the nations of the UK, the last question would be answered as a Yes and therefore she would not be able to sponsor her Pakistani spouse to the UK for a spouse visa.

Further reading
Guidance: Spouses
Guidance: Domicile

Alternative approaches
As Casa has pointed out, the British/Pakistani dual citizen is of course free to move to Pakistan to live there with her Pakistani spouse and extended family.

It is unclear as to how EU law deals with polygamous marriages. It may be possible (I will leave it for others to advise further) for the British/Pakistani dual citizen to move to another EEA member-state (i.e. leave the UK) before Brexit and then for her Pakistani spouse (and even the children under the age of 21 from his first marriage) to join her in that other EEA member-state.

I faintly recall a case where Obie had suggested that it may be possible for a married British citizen to also sponsor another person as a durable partner/being in a relationship akin to marriage. I could of course be entirely wrong as I can't locate the post/thread and it was a while ago (a year or two ago). But it may be possible for the British/Pakistani dual citizen to sponsor the Pakistani citizen spouse as a durable partner and not a spouse if she were to live with him in Pakistan for at least two years (with proof of being in a relationship akin to marriage, i.e. joint bills, bank statements, etc). Again, wait for others, especially Obie, to advise further on this point.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by seagul » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:56 pm

Don't bring Islamic law where there is a case of keeping more than one wife because there are some circumstances when islamically it's allowed and since it's immigration forum so won't debate over further.

If you mean that pakistani man doesn't reveal its first marriage and marry with British lady then it may work for a while but in long run if it's get known to caseworker then that matter will become a case of deception where all of his future applications for extensions/settlement will be refused.
The opinion expressed as above is neither a professional advice nor contesting/competing to other member's opinion/advice.

Hasan1980
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Hasan1980 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:54 pm

The British lady born in Pakistan ...she got her nationalty via naturalization...so what u suggest if she can marry in Pakistan and move to Europe ..in which country of Europe she can move with her husband as a 2nd wife of him...plz advise me if there is any solution.....

thanks for everyone time and help

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Casa
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Re: Information regarding spouse visa

Post by Casa » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:14 pm

According to wikipedia, it appears that only the following EU countries will permit polygamy:
Netherlands: Marriage between more than two individuals prohibited; however, a samenlevingscontract may include more than two partners. It legally accepts immigrants who are in such a union from a country where it is legal; e.g. if a man with two wives immigrates to The Netherlands, all three will be legally recognised
And
Sweden (but not for the purpose of a residence permit).
Sweden: Sweden recognises polygamous marriages performed abroad, and all spouses are subsequently registered as spouses in the population register, but other spouses than the first spouse may not always be recognised in all occasions.[126][127][128] Only the first spouse is recognised as a spouse when decisions are made on residence permits and social security.[126] A Swede may have four spouses registered at most


Even if your friend tries the EU route, the couple will face the same legal issues if attempting to re-locate to the UK under Surinder Singh, although in any event the SS route is likely to close after Brexit :idea:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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