Home Office Brexit app for EU citizens put in doubt

[rooibos]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... t-in-doubt

Home Office plans to roll out a phone app to register EU citizens in the UK have been dealt a blow after Theresa May clashed with Brussels over people arriving during the transition period for Brexit.

The digital system was ready to be road-tested in January but the Home Office has had to go back to the drawing board after the prime minister warned there would be no automatic right to remain for EU citizens coming to the UK after 29 March 2019, the Guardian can reveal.

“After Theresa May’s announcement about EU citizens, the certainty about the system has been taken away,” said one source.

If this is true, this will be the definitive evidence that EU nationals in UK are being cynically used as a pawn.

[Obie]

It is in such utter mess.

This brexit nonsense is simply not working.

The Home Office as horrible as they are, said they are simply not ready.

How can Mrs May have a system in place to separate these people coming in during this so called transition period from people coming in later.

It is simply an unworkable mess.

[rooibos]

Is the system not ready because of purely technical and administrative issues, or is this a deliberate choice to keep people on the grill, so they will leave? At the end of the day, it IS working! Immigration from the EU is slowing down. That's what Theresa May always wanted with her hostile environnment.

[Obie]

Even though her hostile policy may have worked, the hit on the economy is clearly not worth it, in any event. I do not understand why UK ministers and some constituents are so obsessed with migrant.

If a person enter the UK to work and benefit the economy, then i see no problem. If their mission for entry is to commit crime, then there is an imperative to remove them.

[rooibos]

Even though her hostile policy may have worked, the hit on the economy is clearly not worth it, in any event. I do not understand why UK ministers and some constituents are so obsessed with migrant.

If a person enter the UK to work and benefit the economy, then i see no problem. If their mission for entry is to commit crime, then there is an imperative to remove them.

This is what my British friends have been telling me all the time. But this is not how politicians think. They don't think in terms of common sense.

[UKBALoveStory]

If a person enter the UK to work and benefit the economy, then i see no problem. If their mission for entry is to commit crime, then there is an imperative to remove them.

It is not as simple as you described. is it? The infrastructure has to be there to support growing/incoming population (which is not there to be honest). From schools to hospitals, from transport to jobs everywhere you see, the infrastructure is struggling to cope with increasing demands.
I am a migrant myself, don't take me wrong and I am not against migration. All I am saying is there should be some kind of check and balances & any country should be freely able to decide if they allow any other person from some country to come, work and live in their country. Free for all migration imho does not work for any country.

[rooibos]

If a person enter the UK to work and benefit the economy, then i see no problem. If their mission for entry is to commit crime, then there is an imperative to remove them.

It is not as simple as you described. is it? The infrastructure has to be there to support growing/incoming population (which is not there to be honest). From schools to hospitals, from transport to jobs everywhere you see, the infrastructure is struggling to cope with increasing demands.
I am a migrant myself, don't take me wrong and I am not against migration. All I am saying is there should be some kind of check and balances & any country should be freely able to decide if they allow any other person from some country to come, work and live in their country. Free for all migration imho does not work for any country.

So, is this a justification for treating EU citizens as a pawn? Would you like to be treated like a pawn to put pressure on your country of origin?

[secret.simon]

Understanding that others may have a completely different understanding and perspective of the situation is important when discussing and debating an issue, particularly one as divisive as Brexit.

The article, From Hadrian's Wall to Brexit, by Kabir Chibber is as valid now as it was in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 referendum and shows how perspectives can vary even among immigrants.

...What’s more, the European immigrant doesn’t think of himself as an immigrant. He thinks of himself as a European—equal with the local citizens. This can lead to some very strange moments. In the aftermath of Britain’s vote to leave the European Union, the Labour MP Stella Creasy recalled a moment during the campaigning in her London constituency:

Walthamstow has always been a place that’s proud of its diversity, and I watched a Somali woman racially abusing a Hungarian woman, shouting at her that her daughter couldn’t get a job so that she should go back to the country where she came from.

In that story, everyone was seeing different things. The native British MP saw two foreigners, fighting. The Somali saw her years of sacrifice to make her daughter British being destroyed by a foreigner. And the Hungarian lady, in all possibility, saw herself as a European in Europe, being abused by a foreigner.

It is worth remembering that fighting fire with fire works in very few occasions, and then only at the hands of a skilled operator. Fighting fire with water or with a fire extinguisher is far more common. Leavers have been condemned for using irrational and simplistic language. Remainers should not counter by sounding equally simple. The Remain cause could make more progress if it responded to concerns about unlimited immigration, rather than either denying that it exists or denying that it is a concern to a sizable section of society.

Enemies, traitors, saboteurs: how can we face the future with this anger in our politics?
The language we use in public and on social media has repercussions. The first step must be greater civility

[rooibos]

Secret. Simon, what is your point, if I may dare ask? We are not discussing Brexit vs Remain supporters here. This is about a scheme that Theresa May has agreed with the EU and promised to implement, but she apparently now paused, just to teach the EU a lesson. Can I have your enlightened opinion on this very fact?

[UKBALoveStory]

If a person enter the UK to work and benefit the economy, then i see no problem. If their mission for entry is to commit crime, then there is an imperative to remove them.

It is not as simple as you described. is it? The infrastructure has to be there to support growing/incoming population (which is not there to be honest). From schools to hospitals, from transport to jobs everywhere you see, the infrastructure is struggling to cope with increasing demands.
I am a migrant myself, don't take me wrong and I am not against migration. All I am saying is there should be some kind of check and balances & any country should be freely able to decide if they allow any other person from some country to come, work and live in their country. Free for all migration imho does not work for any country.

So, is this a justification for treating EU citizens as a pawn? Would you like to be treated like a pawn to put pressure on your country of origin?

I am just talking about principle here and not how the govt. is treating this issue. The govt might be using it as a bargain chip & that might be effecting people's lives - I understand that. But the point I am trying to make here is that every country should be freely able to decide who can come to their country, work, live, and get benefit from system. This is not united states of Europe. EU is not one country. These are different countries & should be treated likewise.

Apologies if my comments offended you - Hope everything works for you.

[vinny]

It is in such utter mess.

Agree.

For example, I don't understand the Government's stance on insisting that people with confirmation of PR documents have to apply for "settled status", when there are provisions in place for PR and its EFFECT ON OTHER LEGISLATION.

It seems like an unnecessary duplication of work for PR document holders and an already overwhelmed UKVI.

[Obie]

Look at parliament faced with many legislation, which they are unlikely to pass before their self-imposed brexit deadline.

The Settled status makes no practical, it is about May sucking up to the rabid and unpleasant Tories Right of her party.

I believe UKBAlovestory has not quite grasp what the issue on debate here is about. I don't believe any one is telling Brexiteers that they cannot choose who can come into their Island country. People are merely saying the people who were here before brexit, should be treated with decency and fairness. This is something the May regime lacks. They want to use EU nationals as a pawn, as a bargaining chip.

They requested the transitional period of up to 2 years, but again they want to use EU national as a pawn by saying the ones that come in after will be treated different the people that came before brexit day. They are trying to undermine the integrity of the common market.

I understand rooibos is pointing on an issue that affects the life of many EU nationals.

I have 2 EU national friend who have lived in the UK and paid thousands and thousands of taxes, and 3 weeks ago they decided to leave despite my many pleas and encouragements. They said they are tired of being made hostage by Mrs May and the Tories.

[rooibos]

Thanks Obie for getting the point and explaining it better than I did.

Settled status or not, I, like 10,000's of EU citizens in UK for donkeys' years, have already decided: my future is not in this country. I'll stay here until I find a decent job in the continent, ideally Germany, and rebuild my life.

I feel defeated. Almost 20 years in this country for nothing. I'm sick and tired of having to justify my presence in this country. Sorry for the personal rant.

[Obie]

No I do not think you should do that. When there is an oppressive policy or system, the best way is to fight that system.

I understand the frustration and feeling of powerlessness, and your reasons for taking the decision you are proposing to take. However I still feel you have lots of fight in you to resist May and her party and government of chaos.

[rooibos]

I couldn't fight the system if I wanted to, because I'm not British and not planning to become one. Like me probably 100,000's of EU citizens who never planned to become British because they didn't have to. We'll be replaced by more motivated non-EU migrants who see the blue passport as a Holy Grail.

[Obie]

Disturbing Article on the treatment of EEA national.