Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

[chaoscontrol]

Hello everyone , thanks for updating . I think Ron121 case is different and he is coverd by TA 2012 rules so ours case is different because of post October 2012 rules and only we got chance to fight after Lounes successful . I don't think there are much people similar to our cases because most people whose families joined them before 16 October 2012 are covered by TA and only people who came to UK alone and brought their families later are got in mess but who came to UK together their families not because they would be applying PR together so not much people are effected .Let's all effected people complain . We are not covered by Brexit withdrawal Agreement . If no decision is made then after Brexit non EEA family members will be illegal ? That mean if living in rent then eviction from landlord , losing job and can not visit hospital ,GP ? Confused .

Hi Unluckyeea2,

Ron121 case is same as ours mate. TA is for people who were dual national BC/EA national by the time their non-EA nationals applied for a RC or PR. Ron121 EA national spouse got BC in 2014 which is post TA just like our case. Br

Reynaldogr: do you have any proof of that TA is only for people who were Dual nationals before their non-EEA spouses applied for a RC ? any weblinks to document confirming this please ?

[chaoscontrol]

some update regarding EU Rulings/decisions from me here (everyone in our situation needs to read this) :
eea-route-applications/i-have-dual-citi ... l#p1600756

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi Reynaldogr , I think you are confused .TA is people whose family members got Family permit or RC before 16 October 2012 will not be effected due to naturalization .We are all going to be end up in court battle and our family's going to be illegal after Brexit if decision not made before Brexit due to not included dual nationals in Brexit withdrawal Agreement in my thinking I am confused .If they become illegal then even going back to third country to apply spouse visa under UK rule and visa will be refused on the ground of overstaying or breaching rule ? Confused.

[reynaldogr]

Hi Reynaldogr , I think you are confused .TA is people whose family members got Family permit or RC before 16 October 2012 will not be effected due to naturalization .We are all going to be end up in court battle and our family's going to be illegal after Brexit if decision not made before Brexit due to not included dual nationals in Brexit withdrawal Agreement in my thinking I am confused .If they become illegal then even going back to third country to apply spouse visa under UK rule and visa will be refused on the ground of overstaying or breaching rule ? Confused.

I had the same thoughts when i first read the TA, and become aware of all this non sense. This is just my interpretation of the law (from an engineer logical perspective as i am). Probably i wouldn't advise what i said previously. Anyone who thinks may fall under these TA (like Ron212), should flag that up with their solicitors.

My stand is that in principle, a TA is something that is there to protect people who may be affected due to a new law put in place, and they being in the middle of a process (base on previous laws) before this new law came into effect. Putting this in practice (again, this is my opinion), the TA are for non-EA nationals that were accepted as Family Members (Entry Clearance), before July-2012 or apply for a Residence Card before Oct-2012, were their EA national Spouse were also BC at this point. This will allow the Non EA-national to still go through the EA processes of residence, even though their spouses were BC/EA national at the time.

Is beyond my comprehension, how the laws can be written to benefit a few lucky ones that happen to apply for their FM (before july 2012) or PR (before oct-2012), when their spouses were only EA nationals, but then decided in the future to become BC. How this can be different to our cases? At the end, our cases are exactly the same as of those lucky ones, because our spouses applied legitimately for a FM or PR when WE were only EA nationals, but post- jul/oct 2012. then we decided to become BC just like in the "luck-ones" case.

Apologies if i'm confusing people on this forum, but this is the way i see this thing.

Br

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi Reynaldogr , thanks for updating . Let's see after application what wil happen but no dout they wiil accept Lounes cases without court battle .worrying is that dual nationals not included in Brexit Withdrawal Agreement if court decides before Brexit then these people are lucky but my family's PR application ripe late so just have to wait few months . My bad luck .thanks to all for updates .

[salu]

Hello everyone,
I've been generally a silent but adept reader of this forum. Thank you everyone for sharing their experience. I think it is about time I share mine.

I'm non-EU married to EU (in Nov, 2012) who naturalised as British in 2014. I applied for residence card in Jan 2013 (got it in June 2013), so not covered by transitional arrangements (TA) by 2 months...

Long story short, and after freaking out, reading your posts, waiting for Lounes ruling, reading some more, and consulting solicitors, I sent my application for PR on the 1st of Feb 2018 with cover letter and copy of Lounes ruling. Submitted biometrics on the 15th. Received confirmation of application this week. Trying not to go mad while waiting.
Has anyone NOT COVERED BY TA, married before naturalisation of EU (unlike Lounes), applied for PR already?
Please share your timeline when you do. I will update you when I hear back.

Good luck to us all!

[Success82]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

[chaoscontrol]

Hello everyone,
I've been generally a silent but adept reader of this forum. Thank you everyone for sharing their experience. I think it is about time I share mine.

I'm non-EU married to EU (in Nov, 2012) who naturalised as British in 2014. I applied for residence card in Jan 2013 (got it in June 2013), so not covered by transitional arrangements (TA) by 2 months...

Long story short, and after freaking out, reading your posts, waiting for Lounes ruling, reading some more, and consulting solicitors, I sent my application for PR on the 1st of Feb 2018 with cover letter and copy of Lounes ruling. Submitted biometrics on the 15th. Received confirmation of application this week. Trying not to go mad while waiting.
Has anyone NOT COVERED BY TA, married before naturalisation of EU (unlike Lounes), applied for PR already?
Please share your timeline when you do. I will update you when I hear back.

Good luck to us all!

Hi mate , welcome to Dual British/EU citizenship hell ! thanks for sharing your story , there is getting more and more people like us in this helpful forum. We all going to pray God for going through all this distress and great mess made by HO together .
Thanks again for your story . I hope HO will think logically when assessing our applications and will take in account Lounes ` rulings from CJEU as they have to do that by law !

[chaoscontrol]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Success 82 ! You are giving us all a hope ! your story are super important for us ! as we all here (Dual British/EU) been waiting when somebody will write down THIS !
This is amazing feeling and thanks for your support ! I think many people in the same situation will read this and have at least some more assurance and even more hope in their hearts !
This is somehow showing that HO is not completely `robots` as we all thought here and they abide the law !
Great news for Friday , Thousand thank you Man for sharing your story ! as you said SUCCESS !!

[Unluckyeea2]

Dear friends , Senior gurus thank you for updates, sharing your experience in this forum God bless you all .
Salu and Success82 please could you explain more details about you application that how did you submit appllication by yourself or through solicitor please ? I am thinking to apply through a Eu law expert lawyer because i got in this mess when i applied my naturalisation through soliciter and he didnt knew Ew law and not advised me to wait ultill my families got PR that he was only good lawyer for other laws then i got in this mess .friends please have you anyone of you applied as claiming child benefit or any kind of benefit etc ? I do not have utility bills because of it is included in rent only we have is council tax bill both names , TV liecence bill ,mobile phone bill and Bank statement but not joint account so are these bills enough to prove that we are living together or proof of address ? thanks to all for information and appreciate all advice .

[pusched]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Thank you so much for sharing! It is great to hear success stories

I got married a year later than you so we will be applying early December. Out of curiosity does the letter mention you being apply to apply for BC straight away?

[pusched]

Dear friends , Senior gurus thank you for updates, sharing your experience in this forum God bless you all .
Salu and Success82 please could you explain more details about you application that how did you submit appllication by yourself or through solicitor please ? I am thinking to apply through a Eu law expert lawyer because i got in this mess when i applied my naturalisation through soliciter and he didnt knew Ew law and not advised me to wait ultill my families got PR that he was only good lawyer for other laws then i got in this mess .friends please have you anyone of you applied as claiming child benefit or any kind of benefit etc ? I do not have utility bills because of it is included in rent only we have is council tax bill both names , TV liecence bill ,mobile phone bill and Bank statement but not joint account so are these bills enough to prove that we are living together or proof of address ? thanks to all for information and appreciate all advice .

I don't think it makes a different to your application if you apply with a lawyer or not. In the past I tried to use two lawyers and both times they let us down and had problems with applications. Thankfully we were refunded, ended up doing it all ourselves and so far it has all been fine. Just read the forms carefully as well as the guidelines. All the information is there.

[Unluckyeea2]

Dear friends thanks for keep updating , i think some lucky ones like Success82's application went to good caseworkers table and got success even HO has not changed regulation MC Carthy 2012 and were ignoring implementation of Lounes judgement . i have some doubts if you are unlucky and your application goes to caseworker who follows only guide lines then again will get refusal and court battle . keep udating please . thanks to all .

[pusched]

Dear friends thanks for keep updating , i think some lucky ones like Success82's application went to good caseworkers table and got success even HO has not changed regulation MC Carthy 2012 and were ignoring implementation of Lounes judgement . i have some doubts if you are unlucky and your application goes to caseworker who follows only guide lines then again will get refusal and court battle . keep udating please . thanks to all .

I think we have to believe it will be fine. the law is with us after all. Including the Lounes case may at least make a bad worked ask a senior person.

[Success82]

Dear friends , Senior gurus thank you for updates, sharing your experience in this forum God bless you all .
Salu and Success82 please could you explain more details about you application that how did you submit appllication by yourself or through solicitor please ? I am thinking to apply through a Eu law expert lawyer because i got in this mess when i applied my naturalisation through soliciter and he didnt knew Ew law and not advised me to wait ultill my families got PR that he was only good lawyer for other laws then i got in this mess .friends please have you anyone of you applied as claiming child benefit or any kind of benefit etc ? I do not have utility bills because of it is included in rent only we have is council tax bill both names , TV liecence bill ,mobile phone bill and Bank statement but not joint account so are these bills enough to prove that we are living together or proof of address ? thanks to all for information and appreciate all advice .

Hi Luckyeea2, i did not use any lawyer, I added all the documents you mentioned and my Joint account statements and Payslips. Just make sure you fill the form correctly with your supporting documents and ref to Lounes judgement (to be honest i did ref Lounes case as i thougt they should know then).

[Unluckyeea2]

yes , there is more hope now we keep pressure them from every corner . thanks for updates .

[reynaldogr]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Hi success82 and Salu,

Many thanks for sharing your stories. Amazing news for Success82! hopefully all of us will have the same positive outcome in our cases. Nevertheless, i reckon this is just like playing roulette and will depend on whom work case hands will fall our applications.

@success82, may i know if you referred to the Lounes Case in your application. If you add a cover letter referring to this EJC judgment?. Did you mention that your wife was also BC in the "other nationalty" on your sponsor section?

one more last question, (i think pusch asked already). were you advise that you could apply for BC without having to wait 12 months on PR status?

@Salu, please keep us in the loop whether the decision on your case is positive or negative. I'll be in the same situation (as most of us), in a few weeks.

Many thanks again for sharing your stories

[Success82]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Thank you so much for sharing! It is great to hear success stories

I got married a year later than you so we will be applying early December. Out of curiosity does the letter mention you being apply to apply for BC straight away?

The 3rd page of the lettet states:
When can I apply for British Citizen?
If you are spouse or CP of british citizen, you can apply for British citizen as soon as you receive your PR card, provided you meet the relevant criteria.
2nd paragraph states if you are not the spouse or civil partner of BC, you must have held PR card for at leasr 12 month before you appy.
I wish you all the best.

[Unluckyeea2]

hi Success82 , than you for information and God bless you .please keep updating .

[Unluckyeea2]

hi success82 , thankyou for information .

[Success82]

@ Reynoldogr
I did not ref Lounes as i thought they should be aware and on spouse nationality..it is a Yes or No question,I put Yes and since the year. the letter i received state that you can apply for BC as soon as you receive your PR. I am not ready to cough out £1200 for citizenship so i will enjoy the PR card for like 8month.

Wish you success with ur application.

[Navaro2]

Please can you tell me if you apply at the time your 5 year residence was close to expire?
You mentioned you sent Lounes ruling copy and covering letter. Did you refer to Lounes in your letter mainly? or you pointed out different circumstances as well ????????

[Unluckyeea2]

@Success82 ,
thank you for updates . Did you submit your sponser's EEA passport ,Document certifying Permanent Card (Blue card) , EU ID card and British passport along with other supporting documents and application form ? I am confused that my EU ID is going to be expired by the time my families being 5Years in UK for applying PR . updates please . thank you for sharing stories .

[salu]

Success82, that is fantastic news, congratulations to you and your family!!! Thank you for sharing your story and giving us hope!!!
I look forward to hearing more success stories, and will update you when I hear back from the HO. I'd be very interested in hearing about everyone's timelines. Good luck!

[Navaro2]

I think in the case of Success82 we can not tell if positive decision was based on Lounes or just on different circumstances. The caseworker might not have been aware of Lounes at all when deciding. Maybe a commonsense , approach and understanding of caseworker has won as he said did not refer to Lounes.
We have to wait for Salu's outcome rather.