Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

[reynaldogr]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Thank you so much for sharing! It is great to hear success stories

I got married a year later than you so we will be applying early December. Out of curiosity does the letter mention you being apply to apply for BC straight away?

The 3rd page of the lettet states:
When can I apply for British Citizen?
If you are spouse or CP of british citizen, you can apply for British citizen as soon as you receive your PR card, provided you meet the relevant criteria.
2nd paragraph states if you are not the spouse or civil partner of BC, you must have held PR card for at leasr 12 month before you appy.
I wish you all the best.

Many thanks again for the info success123!

I am now hesitating on whether I should mention the Lounes cases or not at all, in my wife application. The new dilemma now will be deciding between playing roulette and praying that my spouse application will fall in a misinformed case worker that will approve the PR without knowing anything about TA, dual nationals or Lounes Case, or having the same luck but making him aware of everything by adding a cover letter, then rejecting the PR as i believe (as Chaoscontrol mentioned from his MP and HO letters), the HO is not longer considering any European Court rulings. What a disgrace all this situation is!

[Unluckyeea2]

yes . all affected people need to made complaint to European commission officials that HO not implementing Lounes judgement then they will be forced to implement Lounes judgement .thanks to all.

[Navaro2]

UK is still under EU regulations and will be till or even after Brexit.
However ECJ is going to be the arbiter for next 8 years after Brexit so every court will challenge HO.
That letter was absolutely wrong without any sense

[Unluckyeea2]

dual nationals like LOUNES cases are not included in BREXIT withdrawl Agreement so i have no idea what will happen if our families do not get PR before BREXIT date .thanks

[Unluckyeea2]

In my thoughts EEA citizens are covered by Brexit Withdrawal Agreement so only EEA citizenship holders will be eligible for EEA rules even after Brexit but what about dual EEA/UK citizens who are covered by Lounes judgement ? thanks to all .

[reynaldogr]

UK is still under EU regulations and will be till or even after Brexit.
However ECJ is going to be the arbiter for next 8 years after Brexit so every court will challenge HO.
That letter was absolutely wrong without any sense

Hi Navaro2,

Check on this post made by Chaoscontrol in another similar forum:

Re: I have Dual Citizenship -Wife non EU . 5 years Visa finishes ...
Report this post Quote
Post by chaoscontrol » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:11 pm

mgb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:48 am
A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.
Thanks for advice mgb , that will be definately the fact for the court listing after appeal .
Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

forum link: eea-route-applications/i-have-dual-citi ... l#p1600966

[reynaldogr]

In my thoughts EEA citizens are covered by Brexit Withdrawal Agreement so only EEA citizenship holders will be eligible for EEA rules even after Brexit but what about dual EEA/UK citizens who are covered by Lounes judgement ? thanks to all .

mgb wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:48 am
A application started before the Brexit still fall under eu law.
The period from the application date till to the brexit cannot fall out.

[Success82]

Please can you tell me if you apply at the time your 5 year residence was close to expire?
You mentioned you sent Lounes ruling copy and covering letter. Did you refer to Lounes in your letter mainly? or you pointed out different circumstances as well ????????

Hi Navaro2, I applied 2 month before expiry date and did not ref Lounes or refer to any circumstance.

[reynaldogr]

[quote=reynaldogr post_id=1602017 time=1519404596 user_id=189084]
[quote=Navaro2 post_id=1602005 time=1519403509 user_id=91849]

Important :
Had a phone call from my MP today morning, she received an answer from UKVI (Home Office) to the letter which I send to her around month ago .

THE ANSWER said :
ALL EUROPEAN COURT RULINGS/DECISIONS PUT ON HOLD ,NOTHING WILL BE IMPLEMENTED ,BECAUSE UK EXITS EU , SO NO NEED ANYMORE TO IMPLEMENT EU COURT DECISIONS.

IN LIGHT OF THAT : EVERYONE IN SIMILAR SITUATION TO MY ADVISED TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE (SOLICITOR) , CAUSE OUR PR APPLICATIONS WILL BE REFUSED AND WE WILL NEED TO APPEAL AND GO TO COURT .

Hi Chaoscontrol,

RE the below statement for the other forum, Could you advise if the MP advise you whether or not this was legal. Was he going to flag this up with another MPs in the parliament? was this coming from a Senior case worker or from one of those robot at the EU help line?

Br

[Unluckyeea2]

is she pro leave mp ?

[Success82]

@Success82 ,
thank you for updates . Did you submit your sponser's EEA passport ,Document certifying Permanent Card (Blue card) , EU ID card and British passport along with other supporting documents and application form ? I am confused that my EU ID is going to be expired by the time my families being 5Years in UK for applying PR . updates please . thank you for sharing stories .

I submitted spouse EEA passport, document certifying permanent card (blue card). I did not submit British passport as it was not required as part of application. Pls try to renew ur card or send valid passport as HO requires valid card or passport and you dnt want to give any excuse for them to reject application. Regards

[Unluckyeea2]

@success82 , thank you for sharing stories it will help thousands . I will renew my EU id card then will apply . God bless you .

[chaoscontrol]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Could you please share some more info with us all stressing out here :
1. did you been receiving any benefits when you applied or maybe before ?
2. what did write down in your cover letter? was it just something like "I included a printout of Lounes CJEU ruling because this is changing the 2012 McCarthy ruling and Dual cit. not losing their European rights anymore" ? or it was longer explaining why etc. or you written somethinh else in your cover letter ?
3. do you included only printout of Lounes case and cover letter or something else too ?
4. did you just show them a proof that you been 'exercising your treaty rights' by living with your wife or you sended your payslips/p60's aswell ?

will appreciate if you share more details with us cause there may be something crucial when we will apply and why HO accepted your app. Thanks again.

[reynaldogr]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Could you please share some more info with us all stressing out here :
1. did you been receiving any benefits when you applied or maybe before ?
2. what did write down in your cover letter? was it just something like "I included a printout of Lounes CJEU ruling because this is changing the 2012 McCarthy ruling and Dual cit. not losing their European rights anymore" ? or it was longer explaining why etc. or you written somethinh else in your cover letter ?
3. do you included only printout of Lounes case and cover letter or something else too ?
4. did you just show them a proof that you been 'exercising your treaty rights' by living with your wife or you sended your payslips/p60's aswell ?

will appreciate if you share more details with us cause there may be something crucial when we will apply and why HO accepted your app. Thanks again.

chaoscontrol,

i believe almost all your questions have been answered by success82, please read all the post above. I have also asked you a couple of questions RE your MP position on the HO reply to your letter.

Many thanks

[chaoscontrol]

I am a silent reader of this forum like Salu(post above) and i started following the board back in December 2012 when i applied for my 5year EEA residence card and shared my timeline and this is my story (I hope this encourage everyone in dual eea/uk cases).......I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013, happily married and now have a 4year hold child. In 2016, I naively and stupidly encourage my wife to obtain British citizenship not aware of HO dual eu citizen misinterpretation of eu law, so she became british citizen. I realised the mess HO created that i dragged my family in last year when I was preparing to apply for PR and read bout 'Lounes T case'. I waited until after the judgement of 14 November and was prepared for battle with Home office. I applied for PR in December 2017 and had been having sleepless night from the fear of refusal, appeal and tribunal (As i have family, career and mortgage at stake). To God be the glory, I receieved a sign for delivery from HO today with all our documents and passports and a letter that my PR card has been issued and will receive it in the post in 10 working days. I almost fainted with joy and started praising God has i have bn praying for successful application. I will encourage everyone in this situation to apply for PR, mayb attach Lounes judgement, pray and wait(this is my story).

Could you please share some more info with us all stressing out here :
1. did you been receiving any benefits when you applied or maybe before ?
2. what did write down in your cover letter? was it just something like "I included a printout of Lounes CJEU ruling because this is changing the 2012 McCarthy ruling and Dual cit. not losing their European rights anymore" ? or it was longer explaining why etc. or you written somethinh else in your cover letter ?
3. do you included only printout of Lounes case and cover letter or something else too ?
4. did you just show them a proof that you been 'exercising your treaty rights' by living with your wife or you sended your payslips/p60's aswell ?

will appreciate if you share more details with us cause there may be something crucial when we will apply and why HO accepted your app. Thanks again.

chaoscontrol,

i believe almost all your questions have been answered by success82, please read all the post above. I have also asked you a couple of questions RE your MP position on the HO reply to your letter.

Many thanks

Hi , sorry had no time to properly read everything as been at work till late .. I am shocked with success82`comments !
1. He did not included Lounes`ECJ rulings printout
2. He did not told them anything about `Lounes
3. He not included his British passport !
4. He not explained anything about his Dual citizenship in the cover letter !

That is completely different application !

A. If he did not mention Lounes` - the case worker may been simply not aware about Lounes`.
B. British passport - HO case worker not even seen it !
C. If HO case worker not seen his British passport - she/he thought he is only EU citizen !

I apologye about my morning good mood ..we come to nowhere again .. Success82 story has nothing to do with our PR applications (at least my wifes) because we will be applying by the law and not going to hide the facts .
By the way - HO have right to cancel any PR status/card if they will find it fraudulent later . So I am not going to play with the system .
Is there somebody who applied and included Lounes ruling printout and mentioned that CJEU decision in the cover letter ?
then we need to hear from you ! please if you read that - write to us a message on this forum .

[chaoscontrol]

chaoscontrol,

I have also asked you a couple of questions RE your MP position on the HO reply to your letter.

Many thanks

That was a lady from MP office and not MP herself (sorry for not saying that straight away) . Maybe some people here are right and SHE TOLD ME A BU..SHIT ?

I asked her to send me that HO answer letter ,
she told me she is going to send it by post .. I then written an e-mail to her asking to send me that HO answer by e-mail aswell , but she did not answered to me until now ..

Somehow I need to contact MP to ask her to help more , but I need that letter , so I can show it to her , different way she will not do anything ..

is it a bit strange all that ? I don`t know because I not seen that letter with HO answer .. or maybe there was no any letter at all ? (thats mean MP offices case worker was lying to me ?)
what you or somebody else think about it ?

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi chaoscontrol ,
Afterwards Brexit vote some people of some parts of country don't like Europeans and they dropped go home written papers in post box of some people from Eu it depends which place you live . Over the phone if you ask something different people different answers and some people do not want help so better is try to meet her directly or written answer that HO holding implementation of all ECJ decisions then forward this letter or e-mail to ECJ to inform them that they are ignoring ECJ rulings .

[Unluckyeea2]

Dear all , if they aren't implementing ECJ rulings mean we are going to court battle and court cases take years and years for final decision like Lounes case . If final decision is not made before visa expires then after visa expiry date or Brexit date continues court battle what wilĺ the persons status in country legal or illegal ? Without valid visa passport can't they travel , work , visite hospital GP and what will happen persons Bank account ,right to rent ? Thanks to all and apreciate all advice .

[reynaldogr]

chaoscontrol,

i believe almost all your questions have been answered by success82, please read all the post above. I have also asked you a couple of questions RE your MP position on the HO reply to your letter.

Many thanks

Hi , sorry had no time to properly read everything as been at work till late .. I am shocked with success82`comments !
1. He did not included Lounes`ECJ rulings printout
2. He did not told them anything about `Lounes
3. He not included his British passport !
4. He not explained anything about his Dual citizenship in the cover letter !

That is completely different application !

A. If he did not mention Lounes` - the case worker may been simply not aware about Lounes`.
B. British passport - HO case worker not even seen it !
C. If HO case worker not seen his British passport - she/he thought he is only EU citizen !

I apologye about my morning good mood ..we come to nowhere again .. Success82 story has nothing to do with our PR applications (at least my wifes) because we will be applying by the law and not going to hide the facts .
By the way - HO have right to cancel any PR status/card if they will find it fraudulent later . So I am not going to play with the system .
Is there somebody who applied and included Lounes ruling printout and mentioned that CJEU decision in the cover letter ?
then we need to hear from you ! please if you read that - write to us a message on this forum .

Hi mate,

Just to clarify 3 things about your previous post, to avoid anyone in this forum getting confuse:

1) Success82 did mention that her spouse was BC in the “other nationalities” section of the sponsor. I had personally asked her about this and she answered, with a YES. So she didn’t hide anything to the HO.

2) As the relevant passport for her application is the EEA National (sponsor) you don’t have tu submit your British passport. The form never request that the “other nationality” passport to be sent. Just the EA Passport or Valid ID, will do.

3) Whether or not, anyone choose to mention the Lounes Case on their applications, as you can see, it is just a decision and it is not mandatory. In a healthy immigration system (not the case in UK), would be irrelevant mention this or not, as it shouldn’t affect the outcome of a well informed case worker.

Br

[Unluckyeea2]

Hi all , Yes Success82 clearly mentioned his BC and date his spouse got BC in the application form but didn't send British passport because itsnt required so only sent EEA passport . We hope good news from Salu as well . Thanks to all .

[Unluckyeea2]

@ Pusched , sorry for late response .I didn't read your post about applying through lawyer and just now realised post .Yes I applied blue card to BC through useless solicitor and believed him and got in this mess , he was not good for EU law and didn't advised to wait till families got PR for my application for naturalisation and just regret believing him . Thank you for sharing stories , at least other people will be saved getting in mess .

[chaoscontrol]

Hi , sorry had no time to properly read everything as been at work till late .. I am shocked with success82`comments !
1. He did not included Lounes`ECJ rulings printout
2. He did not told them anything about `Lounes
3. He not included his British passport !
4. He not explained anything about his Dual citizenship in the cover letter !

That is completely different application !

A. If he did not mention Lounes` - the case worker may been simply not aware about Lounes`.
B. British passport - HO case worker not even seen it !
C. If HO case worker not seen his British passport - she/he thought he is only EU citizen !

I apologye about my morning good mood ..we come to nowhere again .. Success82 story has nothing to do with our PR applications (at least my wifes) because we will be applying by the law and not going to hide the facts .
By the way - HO have right to cancel any PR status/card if they will find it fraudulent later . So I am not going to play with the system .
Is there somebody who applied and included Lounes ruling printout and mentioned that CJEU decision in the cover letter ?
then we need to hear from you ! please if you read that - write to us a message on this forum .

Hi mate,

Just to clarify 3 things about your previous post, to avoid anyone in this forum getting confuse:

1) Success82 did mention that her spouse was BC in the “other nationalities” section of the sponsor. I had personally asked her about this and she answered, with a YES. So she didn’t hide anything to the HO.

2) As the relevant passport for her application is the EEA National (sponsor) you don’t have tu submit your British passport. The form never request that the “other nationality” passport to be sent. Just the EA Passport or Valid ID, will do.

3) Whether or not, anyone choose to mention the Lounes Case on their applications, as you can see, it is just a decision and it is not mandatory. In a healthy immigration system (not the case in UK), would be irrelevant mention this or not, as it shouldn’t affect the outcome of a well informed case worker.

Br

Hi , thanks for clearing this out ! this is important .
but somehow I am still unsure if the HO case worker really understood that he are Dual citizen(even if he showed that in `other nationalities`section - may case worker simply not concentrate enough and miss that point ? )
Success 82 may have positive news but his outcome maybe based on different things (one of them: case worker thought he is ordinary EU citizen)

We desperately need to hear somebody else`s story, who mentioned Lounes in his/her PR application .

[reynaldogr]

Hi mate,

Just to clarify 3 things about your previous post, to avoid anyone in this forum getting confuse:

1) Success82 did mention that her spouse was BC in the “other nationalities” section of the sponsor. I had personally asked her about this and she answered, with a YES. So she didn’t hide anything to the HO.

2) As the relevant passport for her application is the EEA National (sponsor) you don’t have tu submit your British passport. The form never request that the “other nationality” passport to be sent. Just the EA Passport or Valid ID, will do.

3) Whether or not, anyone choose to mention the Lounes Case on their applications, as you can see, it is just a decision and it is not mandatory. In a healthy immigration system (not the case in UK), would be irrelevant mention this or not, as it shouldn’t affect the outcome of a well informed case worker.

Br

Hi , thanks for clearing this out ! this is important .
but somehow I am still unsure if the HO case worker really understood that he are Dual citizen(even if he showed that in `other nationalities`section - may case worker simply not concentrate enough and miss that point ? )
Success 82 may have positive news but his outcome maybe based on different things (one of them: case worker thought he is ordinary EU citizen)

We desperately need to hear somebody else`s story, who mentioned Lounes in his/her PR application .

Salu will be able to tell us that. He submitted his application on the 1st of Feb, referring to the Lounes case. He is also certainly out of the TA just like us (not the case for Success82 as she is sort of borderline and I believe she was still in the TA). Judging by the timing on success82 application processing times, Salu should have a outcome (hopefully positive), by mid April.

[salu]

Hello,
From Success82 initial post telling us their story, my understanding is that they are also not covered by TA:
"I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013..."

As reynaldogr notes in post above, I am certainly not covered by TA, did mention Lounes ruling in the cover letter and attached a copy of the ruling with my application.

Please pray / send positive vibes. I'm trying to stay positive, especially after Success82 story - Thanks again for sharing!!!

Mid April sounds ages away, but I will update you when I hear back from HO. Please share your timeline when/if you send your application.

[reynaldogr]

Hello,
From Success82 initial post telling us their story, my understanding is that they are also not covered by TA:
"I got married to EU citizen in November 2012, applied for residence card in December 2012, got my 5yr residence vignette in my passport in Feb 2013..."

As reynaldogr notes in post above, I am certainly not covered by TA, did mention Lounes ruling in the cover letter and attached a copy of the ruling with my application.

Please pray / send positive vibes. I'm trying to stay positive, especially after Success82 story - Thanks again for sharing!!!

Mid April sounds ages away, but I will update you when I hear back from HO. Please share your timeline when/if you send your application.

You are right Salu.

Don’t know why I thought success82 had applied for her RC in nov-2012, but this was, as you pointed out above, in dec-2012. TA deadline for RC applications was 16/10/2012, so her case was in fact, just like the all of us!... all the best salu! I’m praying for you mate!

As I said, when you first joined this forum, my wife will be posting her application once we get back from a trip we had planned. This will be midish-April
I’ll keep everyone in this group, in the loop. Also, if I find any relevant information, wait for my updates here! I’m awaiting for the HO to send me all the copy of notices issued by the European Operational Policy Team between and including 01 July 2015 to present. Hopefully will be something that clarifies all this mess, and maybe something RE the Lounes case.

@Success82, could let us know, what date exactly, did you submit your application for PR in December-17? This is only to work out the processing times and have a better estimation for salu application, assuming that his, will be similar than yours.

Many thanks. Br