Citizenship after Sponsoring Spouse to Move Abroad - HELP!

[CourtneyRad]

Hi All

I am applying for UK Citizenship, however back in 2008 I overstayed my visa in the UK due to false information provided to me over the phone by the HMRC immigration helpline.

Background:

I'm a Canadian citizen. I originally arrived in the UK March 2006 on a UK Working Holidaymaker visa which is valid for two years (12 months of working allowed).

During this time I became engaged to my British boyfriend and we set a wedding date for April 2008. I called the HMRC helpline to inquire as to whether I could apply to extend my current stay in order to get married using the FLR (O) form and then apply for a spouse visa thereafter. The person on the phone told me I could indeed do this and also stay living and working in the UK whilst the extension was being decided upon. Fast forward a couple months later I called HMRC again to ask a question about my application which had been submitted, only to be told that I should not be in the UK at the moment, I could not apply with the FLR (O) form and that I should go back to Canada immediately as I was now in breach of my visa and illegally in the UK (you can image the tears that ensued). I then had to cancel my application and wait for my passport to be returned which took some time. I was working at the time and my wedding date approached so I got married, then left the country immediately after. I enlisted the help of an immigration lawyer who helped me apply for my spouse visa from Canada and I stated the issue I had with the false information, etc. I was granted ILR in May 2008.

Fast forward 9 years I am still with my husband and I wish to apply for UK Citizenship, however I am seriously concerned that 1. I will be refused on the basis of this overstay. 2. If I apply and include all this information my application response could take a year rather than months (that's a long time feeling seriously anxious awaiting a decision!). I have email communication between my lawyer and I from 2008 when explaining the situation and hiring him but no actual evidence of the false information by HMRC as it was over the phone (and this was not the only time they have given me false information!).

Does anyone have any advice or opinion on whether it is even worth applying if I'm likely to be refused? I don't want to waste £1200! Thank you so much in advance.

[CR001]

I am sure you mean Home Office and not the taxman, HMRC.

Are you sure you got ILR in May 2008?

Not sure why you didn't apply for citizenship sooner after you got ILR, before the good character requirement came into effect.

As it stands now, you should wait till 2018, once 10 years has passed since your overstay.

You don't state the date you re-entered the UK with your spouse visa

[CourtneyRad]

Thanks for your response!

Doh! Sorry yes I mean the Home Office, I always say HMRC for some unknown silly reason, sorry!

Yes I was lucky and my application for my spouse visa came very quickly. I think it was less than 4 weeks from applying to being granted approval. My ILR visa was issued 15th May 2008 and I returned to the UK on 25th May 2008.

Yes indeed I'm seriously regretting not having applied for citizenship years ago however I couldn't afford it at the time as I was trying to save every bit I could!

I can't seem to find any people on here saying that they had previously overstayed but were still granted citizenship

What is so frustrating is that this wasn't even a fault of my own. I would never have initially overstayed! I'm a 100% law abiding person and would never have even risked it. Just recently I called the HO to ask about my application, called 3 times in one day, asked the same question and got 3 very different answers. I have no faith in the staff to give correct info unfortunately.

[CR001]

Yes I was lucky and my application for my spouse visa came very quickly. I think it was less than 4 weeks from applying to being granted approval. My ILR visa was issued 15th May 2008 and I returned to the UK on 25th May 2008.

Your dates don't make sense. How did you get ILR outside the UK in 2008?? You would have been issued with a 27 months spouse visa not ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain). ILR would have been a different application on form SET(M) after 2 years residence on a spouse visa.

I can't seem to find any people on here saying that they had previously overstayed but were still granted citizenship

Because there aren't any. The good character requirement makes this so.

Just recently I called the HO to ask about my application, called 3 times in one day, asked the same question and got 3 very different answers. I have no faith in the staff to give correct info unfortunately.

The call centre (third party agent we believe) is well known for giving out incorrect advice and take no responsibility for it either.

[Casa]

It may not bring much comfort, but you're not alone. See the link below:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/immigra ... pectation/

I believe that the 'helpline' service is contracted out to outside agency staff who seem to have a very limited understanding of the Immigration Rules, even on the simplest of issues.

I agree with CR001 however, that you wouldn't have been immediately issued with ILR in 2008.

[CourtneyRad]

Oh yes! You're totally correct. I have the worst memory, I'm so sorry. I haven't had to think about this for so long I forgot the order of things. I would have been granted a 2 year spouse visa first in May 2008 then ILR 2 years after. Thanks for the correction guys.

Well.... it sounds as if I'm cancelling my NCS appointment because there is no point in even trying. I really appreciate your responses.

Also, it is some comfort that I'm not alone! It makes me so angry... how can they have people that aren't trained properly giving such crucial advice to people. These are people's lives they're messing up. Of all agencies, the HO should DEFINITELY know what they are talking about!!!

[CourtneyRad]

Hi all

So this is a somewhat two part query as my situation is a little tricky. Apologies for the long explanation...

I am a previous overstayer of 6 weeks back in 2008. My visa expired in March 2008. I returned home April 2008 and was granted my UK spouse visa a few weeks later and returned to the UK in May 2008. Prior to becoming an overstayer I submitted a visa to extend my stay as a 'visitor' upon advice from the Home Office. However I was told later that the advice given to me was wrong and I was technically in the UK illegally as a result. I had to withdraw the application, wait for my passport to be returned then went back home. In the meantime whilst waiting for my passport I also got married to my UK husband (which is why I needed the extension in the first place).

Fast forward almost 10 years and I now want to apply for citizenship but I realize to keep it simple I should wait until 20th April to submit my application so that the 10 year period has lapsed and my overstay won't be an issue.

However, last year hubby and I thought we may like to move to Canada for a bit so we applied for Permanent Residence for him and it has been approved. I thought it would be easy to return and get the returning residents visa for myself but I now know that I would basically start from scratch with a spouse visa. As it stands, I have booked a 1 way ticket on 1st May home to spend time with my family. My husband is staying in the UK for the time being as he wants to keep putting money away.

Other than the question of my intention to reside in the UK, I have a straightforward application. Never spent more than 30 days outside the UK in the last 10 years, no kids but hubby and I have lived together for 12 years. We don't own property, only rent. Both employed full time. No criminal history for myself.

1. Is there a strong possibility that applying for citizenship now, given that my husband has been granted PR for abroad, will result in refusal as they will somehow find out that I've sponsored him? Do different countries' immigration authorities check these things with each other upon application?

2. I have seen stories on here recently where people have been approved even though they are overstayers. Is it worth perhaps applying now so I can ensure to have my citizenship granted before I go home?

3. Should I apply as a spouse to a British person or go the naturalization route due to my length of time here?

4. If I state my intention is to reside in the UK and they find out we've been granted PR for my husband in my home country, will that be seen as 'attempting to deceive the home office' and potentially result in me being banned from the UK? Technically at the time of application, I will be intending to remain in the UK.

5. Can the HO automatically see all flights you've ever booked and that's how they know if someone overstayed? I left the UK on my own accord and was never removed, nor received a removal order. Likewise, will the HO be able to see that I've already booked a one way ticket to my home country?

I really need to make some quick decisions on how to go about getting my citizenship before 100% deciding on whether to move to Canada or not, regardless of whether we WERE planning to move to Canada as I can't leave the UK without guarantee I can come back. I've spent my entire adult life here.

Thanks to everyone for your input!!!

[CR001]

Topics Merged (click)

[CourtneyRad]

Topics Merged (click)

Apologies, I didn't realise this would be considered the same topic!! I'd like to amend the post and instead post a specific topic regarding only the application despite PR being granted for another country but I now cannot edit my post as it appears to be locked. Can you please delete it?

Thanks!

[CR001]

PR in another country is irrelevant to your BC application.

Topics merged so that full history and circumstances are there for members to see and offer advice.

[CourtneyRad]

PR in another country is irrelevant to your BC application.

Topics merged so that full history and circumstances are there for members to see and offer advice.

Oh I see okay. I do apologize, I'm still new to the forum rules!

Thanks for replying anyway. So you don't reckon the fact that I've sponsored my husband and we made clear intentions to the Canadian Visa Office that we intend to move to Canada, the UK HO could see this as intent to reside outside of the UK?

[vinny]

3. Should I apply as a spouse to a British person or go the naturalization route due to my length of time here?

Yes.

Naturalise as a spouse of a British citizen when eligible.

There is no need for the spouse of a British citizen to satisfy the future intentions requirement, 1(1)(d).

(e)the [F1requirements specified in paragraph 1(1)(b), (c) and (ca)] .

Excluded 1(1)(d).

So future intentions of residence outside the UK won't matter.

[CR001]

2. I have seen stories on here recently where people have been approved even though they are overstayers. Is it worth perhaps applying now so I can ensure to have my citizenship granted before I go home?

Unlikely you will get your citizenship approved and ceremony completed before 1st May when you go home, if you applied now.

3. Should I apply as a spouse to a British person or go the naturalization route due to my length of time here?

You seem to qualify for either the 5 year route or the 3 year route.

4. If I state my intention is to reside in the UK and they find out we've been granted PR for my husband in my home country, will that be seen as 'attempting to deceive the home office' and potentially result in me being banned from the UK? Technically at the time of application, I will be intending to remain in the UK.

Holding PR for another country as a BC in itself is not an issue.

5. Can the HO automatically see all flights you've ever booked and that's how they know if someone overstayed? I left the UK on my own accord and was never removed, nor received a removal order. Likewise, will the HO be able to see that I've already booked a one way ticket to my home country?

Not your booked flights, but your travel history in and out over and above the absences you have to list in the form.

I really need to make some quick decisions on how to go about getting my citizenship before 100% deciding on whether to move to Canada or not, regardless of whether we WERE planning to move to Canada as I can't leave the UK without guarantee I can come back. I've spent my entire adult life here.

As I said, unlikely the whole process will be complete by the time you plan to fly on 1st May.

[CourtneyRad]

2. I have seen stories on here recently where people have been approved even though they are overstayers. Is it worth perhaps applying now so I can ensure to have my citizenship granted before I go home?

Unlikely you will get your citizenship approved and ceremony completed before 1st May when you go home, if you applied now.

3. Should I apply as a spouse to a British person or go the naturalization route due to my length of time here?

You seem to qualify for either the 5 year route or the 3 year route.

5. Can the HO automatically see all flights you've ever booked and that's how they know if someone overstayed? I left the UK on my own accord and was never removed, nor received a removal order. Likewise, will the HO be able to see that I've already booked a one way ticket to my home country?

Not your booked flights, but your travel history in and out over and above the absences you have to list in the form.

1. I don't have PR myself in Canada, I am a Canadian Citizen so I sponsored my British husband for PR. We are both still in the Uk for the time being.

2. I realise it will take a while for Citizenship. Could I apply in April, use NDRS, then go to Canada for a few weeks, then come back and complete the ceremony etc., before making the definite move over if we so wish? I'm happy to not take the 1st May flight and remain in the UK for now to complete my citizenship.

5. So presumably it would be unwise to take a trip to Canada whilst my application is pending?

[CR001]

1. I don't have PR myself in Canada, I am a Canadian Citizen so I sponsored my British husband for PR. We are both still in the Uk for the time being.

I wasnt' referring to you but your husband, as vinny has also pointed out!

2. I realise it will take a while for Citizenship. Could I apply in April, use NDRS, then go to Canada for a few weeks, then come back and complete the ceremony etc., before making the definite move over if we so wish? I'm happy to not take the 1st May flight and remain in the UK for now to complete my citizenship.

Your choice.

5. So presumably it would be unwise to take a trip to Canada whilst my application is pending?

Who said it would be unwise?? You are free to travel.

[CourtneyRad]

3. Should I apply as a spouse to a British person or go the naturalization route due to my length of time here?

Yes.

Naturalise as a spouse of a British citizen when eligible.

There is no need for the spouse of a British citizen to satisfy the future intentions requirement, 1(1)(d).

(e)the [F1requirements specified in paragraph 1(1)(b), (c) and (ca)] .

Excluded 1(1)(d).

So future intentions of residence outside the UK won't matter.

Sorry Vinny I'm a little confused by this!! Maybe I'm being a panicked thicko!!

So somewhere in the guidance it clearly states the Spouses of UK Citizens are excluded from the future intentions requirement? This goes against most of what I have read with other people's experiences on the forum as I've read other couples who wanted to move to NZ or other countries and their UK intentions were in question. Did I get the wrong end of the stick?

Thanks so much!!

[vinny]

Simply, there is no requirement in 3 to satisfy 1(1)(d).

[CourtneyRad]

Simply, there is no requirement in 3 to satisfy 1(1)(d).

Okay I can see that in 3 it doesn't mention the requirement, but on 6(1) it states it:

(d)that either—

(i)his intentions are such that, in the event of a certificate of naturalisation as a British citizen being granted to him, his home or (if he has more than one) his principal home will be in the United Kingdom; or

I can't see where "3" was pulled from?

[vinny]

Naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(1) lists the statutory requirements for Naturalisation under Section 6(1), standard requirements.

Naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(2) lists the statutory requirements for Naturalisation under Section 6(2), spouse or civil partner of a British citizen requirements.

There is no requirement for 1(1)(d) for Naturalisation under Section 6(2).

[CourtneyRad]

Naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(1) lists the statutory requirements for Naturalisation under Section 6(1), standard requirements.

Naturalisation as a British citizen under section 6(2) lists the statutory requirements for Naturalisation under Section 6(2), spouse or civil partner of a British citizen requirements.

There is no requirement for 1(1)(d) for Naturalisation under Section 6(2).

Vinny, I love you.

I get it now and it's there clear as day. So regardless of mine and my husband's future possible intent to leave the UK, I'm still eligible for BC as of April.

Thank you guys so much... I feel elated. There's actually hope!!!!

[CourtneyRad]

1. I don't have PR myself in Canada, I am a Canadian Citizen so I sponsored my British husband for PR. We are both still in the Uk for the time being.

I wasnt' referring to you but your husband, as vinny has also pointed out!

2. I realise it will take a while for Citizenship. Could I apply in April, use NDRS, then go to Canada for a few weeks, then come back and complete the ceremony etc., before making the definite move over if we so wish? I'm happy to not take the 1st May flight and remain in the UK for now to complete my citizenship.

Your choice.

5. So presumably it would be unwise to take a trip to Canada whilst my application is pending?

Who said it would be unwise?? You are free to travel.

Thank you so much for all of your help. I now have to decide whether to go visit family, then come back, or just stay on here for a while until citizenship is sorted. As you said I'm free to travel!!

I have one last question for you both - When filling out the application form should I still put 'UK' as the country in which I intend to reside?

[CR001]

Thank you so much for all of your help. I now have to decide whether to go visit family, then come back, or just stay on here for a while until citizenship is sorted. As you said I'm free to travel!! If you use the online form and NDRS service, applications are being approved within 1-2 months at the moment.

I have one last question for you both - When filling out the application form should I still put 'UK' as the country in which I intend to reside? Yes, put UK.

[vinny]

4. If I state my intention is to reside in the UK and they find out we've been granted PR for my husband in my home country, will that be seen as 'attempting to deceive the home office' and potentially result in me being banned from the UK? Technically at the time of application, I will be intending to remain in the UK.

That's a valid concern.

[CourtneyRad]

4. If I state my intention is to reside in the UK and they find out we've been granted PR for my husband in my home country, will that be seen as 'attempting to deceive the home office' and potentially result in me being banned from the UK? Technically at the time of application, I will be intending to remain in the UK.

That's a valid concern.

Hmmm okay... so should I put Canada? Given that I don't need to intend to live here as the spouse of a UK citizen?

You two seem to have different opinions

[CourtneyRad]

Thank you so much for all of your help. I now have to decide whether to go visit family, then come back, or just stay on here for a while until citizenship is sorted. As you said I'm free to travel!! If you use the online form and NDRS service, applications are being approved within 1-2 months at the moment.

I have one last question for you both - When filling out the application form should I still put 'UK' as the country in which I intend to reside? Yes, put UK.

As Vinny just said, that could be seen as deceptive.

I just looked through the AN Booklet again and can now clearly see the sections referring to the requirements for Spouses and Non Spouses and Spouses doesn't mention intention to reside in the UK. So surely I can put that I intend to live in Canada, and I should still be approved right?

P.s. Yes I saw the new online service is speeding things along which is fantastic!!