Refused on 'Good Character"

[Loniejr]

Quick question please. I have just had my application for naturalization turned down because of falling foul of 'Good Character'.
I over stayed my work visa in 2003. I was granted two sets of 3 year discretionary visas and finally my ILR in Dec 2017. My over stay was not by choice but becasue I could not return to the USA. My USA passport expired in 2002 and a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US. I could not leave the UK as my wife had just given birth to our daughter. I had spent several years in the UK courts contesting the US arrears and in 2006 an agreement was reached. It took until 2010 until my US passport was released and I could apply for my UK visa. Can you tell me if I have grounds to contest the refusal. I am a person of Good Character, I could not leave the UK and abandon my family. Surly, that shows that I am a person of Good Character and that my overstay was beyond my control. Any help would be appreciated.

[4uvak]

It is better to involve professional to help you with your case. If you still decide to go on your own, read here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... .0-EXT.pdf . If you decide to go for reconsideration, the form is here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NR__v4.pdf

[baddy]

Quick question please. I have just had my application for naturalization turned down because of falling foul of 'Good Character'.
I over stayed my work visa in 2003. I was granted two sets of 3 year discretionary visas and finally my ILR in Dec 2017. My over stay was not by choice but becasue I could not return to the USA. My USA passport expired in 2002 and a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US. I could not leave the UK as my wife had just given birth to our daughter. I had spent several years in the UK courts contesting the US arrears and in 2006 an agreement was reached. It took until 2010 until my US passport was released and I could apply for my UK visa. Can you tell me if I have grounds to contest the refusal. I am a person of Good Character, I could not leave the UK and abandon my family. Surly, that shows that I am a person of Good Character and that my overstay was beyond my control. Any help would be appreciated.

Dont waste your money to contest this decision. You can only re-apply 10 years after your stay is regularised and you are not in breach of immigration rules and no traffic or any conviction. You did not give full information as to when you got the first 3 year discretionary visa. Count 10 years from that first visas. Then you can re-apply.

[Loniejr]

Thank you for your reply... as it was beyond my control
Do you think I have a chance to appeal...

[Hstepper07]

Thank you for your reply... as it was beyond my control
Do you think I have a chance to appeal...

When was stay regularised? In my opinion, you can apply for reconsideration if the immigration breach was beyond your control. Look at discretion to waive immigration breaches on page 26. "You must only exercise discretion to disregard a period of unlawful residence if there are reasons for this which were clearly outside the applicant’s control, or if the
breach was genuinely inadvertent and short"

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... 4vNaxqvi9N

[Obie]

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?

[secret.simon]

a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US.

The fact that a foreign government took the drastic step of putting your passport renewal on hold due to court proceedings does not exactly lend itself to proving you are of good character, does it?

I can't imagine an immigration judge here taking a positive view on this point.

[Loniejr]

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?

No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.

[Loniejr]

a hold was placed on my renewal because of back child support due in the US.

The fact that a foreign government took the drastic step of putting your passport renewal on hold due to court proceedings does not exactly lend itself to proving you are of good character, does it?

I can't imagine an immigration judge here taking a positive view on this point.

The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.

[ouflak1]

The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.

I hate to sound cruel, but that is hardly the UK's concern. Especially as it is entirely possible to get a temporary passport for these situations and straighten out your stay before it becomes an issue. You've gotten two of the best pieces of advice on this thread you are going to get in my opinion:

• Forget about it until the Good Character requirement allows forgiveness.

• Get a lawyer, dig into your deep pockets, and hope you can get the UK to change its mind before you would quality anyway.

[Obie]

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?

No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.

You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.

[ouflak1]

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?

No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.

You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.

But the U.S. Child-Support-on-hold process provides specific facilities for obtaining an 'emergency' passport to sort these issues out stateside. While there, he presumably could have sorted out a visa. Even if he could press the point that some matters were beyond his control, that particular fact was completely within his control and weakens his case substantially. He wouldn't be allowed to work once his legal stay ceased, so there is not even an argument that he had to stay to support his partner. I try to keep an open mind on this stuff. Mistakes happen, and child support issues are especially emotional and involved. But I can't see how the UK should take that into (re)consideration for bestowing citizenship. It's really not any of the UK's concern.

[Obie]

We are not talking about taking that as a factor for bestowing citizenship. We are talking about whether that factor can be used to determine that a person is of good character. So they are 2 different things. I have no difficulty in accepting that citizenship both under Section 6(1) and 6(2), is under the absolute discretion of the Secretary of State.

If he says i was unable to regularise my stay, because to do so require a passport, which the American authorities were wrongly refusing to issue me. Therefore he may have a case.

I don't know all the facts, but on the face, the OP may have a case.

He was going through court proceeding in the UK, which he had to see to completion, and was unable to regularise his stay as the US authorities refused to issue him a passport, he clearly does have a convention claim as he was granted leave.

In all the circumstance, can it be said the person is not of good character. That is the legal question.

The court has ruled that the question of whether a person is of good character or not, involves a lot more than a tick box exercise, and all factors associated with the case must be considered.

[Loniejr]

The hold on my passport was because of child support arrears. The arrears accrued because, I was in the middle of going to court to adjust the support payments. The hold goes on automatically when arrears go beyond $2500. I spend several months here in the UK Courts to correct the arrears and ongoing support.
and then another 4 years to get the hold released.

I hate to sound cruel, but that is hardly the UK's concern. Especially as it is entirely possible to get a temporary passport for these situations and straighten out your stay before it becomes an issue. You've gotten two of the best pieces of advice on this thread you are going to get in my opinion:

• Forget about it until the Good Character requirement allows forgiveness.

• Get a lawyer, dig into your deep pockets, and hope you can get the UK to change its mind before you would quality anyway.

Yes, the US does provide an emergency 'one-way' passport. As I had a wife and a newborn, the prospect of not being able to return to my family did not set well.

[Loniejr]

Did you advanced this point to them at the application stages?

No, As I had just received my ILR. Everything was disclosed then.

You should have addressed those matter in your application and provided those justification, then if they refused to engage them, then you have have a stronger case.

I do not agree with those that said it is not worthy of consideration, it clearly is, and goes into the heart of the case.

But the U.S. Child-Support-on-hold process provides specific facilities for obtaining an 'emergency' passport to sort these issues out stateside. While there, he presumably could have sorted out a visa. Even if he could press the point that some matters were beyond his control, that particular fact was completely within his control and weakens his case substantially. He wouldn't be allowed to work once his legal stay ceased, so there is not even an argument that he had to stay to support his partner. I try to keep an open mind on this stuff. Mistakes happen, and child support issues are especially emotional and involved. But I can't see how the UK should take that into (re)consideration for bestowing citizenship. It's really not any of the UK's concern.

As I said, a oneway passport back to the US, with a wife and a newborn here in the UK, was not an option. As it stands, it took many years to get the US to release my passport. Its not 'Good Character' to abandon your family.

[Obie]

Did you attempt to apply for any form of extension of leave? How long was the overstaying for?

[Loniejr]

Did you attempt to apply for any form of extension of leave? How long was the overstaying for?

My work Visa expired in 2003, My US passport expired in 2002 and I could not get it renewed as the US had put a hold on it. After all my court ordeals, I finally got the release in 2010. I applied for my marriage visa straight away, that was refused, but I as given a 3 year Discretionary Leave to Remain twice and then my ILR in 2017.

[Obie]

The period of 2003-2010 is a long period to be in the UK without status. My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Not having a passport does not prevent you from applying per sa. If however they refuse based on your inability to get a passport, then you have strong basis.

You cannot stay in the Country for such long time, without at least notifying the immigration authorities of your presence and seeking to renew your permission to stay. However you do not appear to have done that. You stayed 7 years without a status, and no attempt to apply for anything even without a passport.

[Loniejr]

The period of 2003-2010 is a long period to be in the UK without status. My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Not having a passport does not prevent you from applying per sa. If however they refuse based on your inability to get a passport, then you have strong basis.

You cannot stay in the Country for such long time, without at least notifying the immigration authorities of your presence and seeking to renew your permission to stay. However you do not appear to have done that. You stayed 7 years without a status, and no attempt to apply for anything even without a passport.

So do you think I stand a chance of getting the Immigration office to reconsider.

[secret.simon]

My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Obie, can you expand on how human rights could be involved with the grant of citizenship? As I understand from the thread, the OP has a US passport now and he has got settled status in the UK, which is a requirement for applying for naturalisation.

Also, is the assessment of good character justiciable and if so, is it a question of fact and what is the appropriate standard (balance of probabilities, etc)?

[Obie]

Well you appear to have misunderstood the point i was making to the OP, which was that between 2003 and 2010 he could have applied for leave, even without his American passport., and if the Home Office had refused him based on the lack of passport, he would have had a significantly stronger case today.

I was not at any point in my advise, suggesting the human right can be engaged.

Yes there are cases in which human rights can be engaged in citizenship, which i do not obviously which to state on this thread, but i fully accept that this case is not one of them.

[Loniejr]

My advise would have been to apply on human right basis, and if they refused based on passport, you will have a much stronger case.

Obie, can you expand on how human rights could be involved with the grant of citizenship? As I understand from the thread, the OP has a US passport now and he has got settled status in the UK, which is a requirement for applying for naturalisation.

Also, is the assessment of good character justiciable and if so, is it a question of fact and what is the appropriate standard (balance of probabilities, etc)?

I believe my Good Character was not applied correctly. Yes, I did overstay, and I could not apply for a visa until my passport was released. Even though I overstayed, I was granted Discretionary Leave twice before my ILR.
I trying to figure out if I should have my refusal re-evaluated. There is a cost associated with it. And If I ask, whats the best argument to take.

[Loniejr]

Well you appear to have misunderstood the point i was making to the OP, which was that between 2003 and 2010 he could have applied for leave, even without his American passport., and if the Home Office had refused him based on the lack of passport, he would have had a significantly stronger case today.

I was not at any point in my advise, suggesting the human right can be engaged.

Yes there are cases in which human rights can be engaged in citizenship, which i do not obviously which to state on this thread, but i fully accept that this case is not one of them.

According to the Passport Office, I needed a valid passport to be submitted with a visa application.

[ouflak1]

As I said, a oneway passport back to the US,

Not if you got everything sorted out whilst there and got your passport off hold.

with a wife and a newborn here in the UK, was not an option.... Its not 'Good Character' to abandon your family.

The UK isn't very accepting of the 'anchor' babies/spouses concept (though far more accepting than most other countries). This has been demostrated in practice and likewise played out on this forum. They are ruthless, and you were lucky to get DLR eventually leading to ILR. And it is important to keep in mind that citizenship is a priviledge. The UK government, indeed any sovereign government, may set whatever standards they like, for whatever reason they like, or no reason at all. If the UK government wished to end the bestowing of citizenship except only by royal decree, they could do it tomorrow. So if they come up with some arcane idea of what 'Good Character' means and decide to apply it as they fit, so be it. You can accept it or not accept it. It's their call, not yours, and they've made their decision.

As it stands, it took many years to get the US to release my passport.

But if you had actually been there in person and been able to get everything sorted out whilst there, would it have taken weeks/months, or the years it instead took being thousands of miles away? Only you know the details of your case as to why it took so long. I don't see this as a stance for reconsideration. Get a lawyer, or wait until you qualify. I've never heard of UK citizenship being given because of compassionate circumstances. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened in some truly extraordinary situations, it only means I haven't I heard of it. That isn't really the point of citizenship anyway.

[baddy]

Well you appear to have misunderstood the point i was making to the OP, which was that between 2003 and 2010 he could have applied for leave, even without his American passport., and if the Home Office had refused him based on the lack of passport, he would have had a significantly stronger case today.

I was not at any point in my advise, suggesting the human right can be engaged.

Yes there are cases in which human rights can be engaged in citizenship, which i do not obviously which to state on this thread, but i fully accept that this case is not one of them.

Obie, with over 13k posts and a moderator, is confusing people with your comments. You are advising someone who entered into the country with a valid passport to apply for leave as a stateless or what? He will need to show a valid form of identification which at that status of immigration will be his passport or a BRP which I believed he did not have as at that time.

The best advice has been given to him, enjoy your ILR and apply when 10 years have passed since you were in the country legally.

For those saying UK do not have the right to question him on the child support issue, I am sure none of you filled a UK visa form before migrating here. There is a part that says 'Have you ever been refused a visa for another country'? And in the naturalisation form, there is a part that considers conviction from another country and not just UK alone. The question the Home office will ask is, what kind of father does not pay child support to the point that the authority is placing a hold on the passport. It is a red signal and I trust the Home office that like to stick their noses where it does not concern them, They will ask questions.

Enjoy your ILR brother, you have a US passport and I am sure you can use your US passport pending when you are fully qualified to naturalise as a UK citizen. US passport is as strong as UK's