Admin review delay

[Leeee704]

Creation of jobs in the uk
Point claimed 20 points awarded 0

REASON ,
pragaraph 49 of the appendix states as follow .....................................

As evidence to demonstrate this you have provided:

Wage slips for employee 1,2 and 3
RTIs for employee 1,2 and 3
IDs for 1,2 and 3

The evidence is not sufficient because the employee 2 and 3 have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months as specified above at paragraph 49 of the immigration rules.

therefore we have been unable to reward points for attribute.


Time line
Applied my intial application for tier1 in july 2014
21 august 2014 got approval
August 2017 applied for tier1 extension .
recieved cmplex letter in oct 2017
sent letter and called home office for updates in april 2018
IHS refund after 1 week of contacting HO
Recieved refusal after a week of IHS refund (today)30 April by temporary migration Team #

employee 1 is fulltime (Accepted)
employee 2 is part time ( April 2016 - Feb2017 104 hours p/m March2017 - today 88 p/m)
employee 3 is part time ( April 2016- Aug 2017 54 hours p/m)

Employee 2 started working on 11April 2016 - ongoing
Employee 3 Started working 4Jan 2016 till Jan 2018

I Applied for my extension in Aug 2017 and my both part timers 2 & 3 worked atleast 142 hours combined a month with diffrent job titles and more than 12 months till my extension due date.

Please senior members check where i did any mistake because i am unable to undestand the reason of my refusal.

Regards

[marcnath]

How did you fill the job table ?
It does look like a CW error

[Leeee704]

hi monarch
thanks for your reply . you mean job table on application form? i have photocopy of my application i can share it

[marcnath]

hi monarch
thanks for your reply . you mean job table on application form? i have photocopy of my application i can share it

Yes, job table on the application form.
How were employee 2 and 3 shown ?
Separate jobs or within the same job in the job table ?
If separate jobs did you clearly indicate that they have to be combined ?

[Leeee704]

job number: ...... 2
job title: ........ public relation cons
date post created : 5-04-2016
if this job is being comined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job : 3

employee name start date end date hourly rate
emplyee 2 11-04-16 on going ££


job number: ...... 3
job title: ........ marketing cons
date post created : 9-12-2015
if this job is being comined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job : 2

employee name start date end date hourly rate
emplyee 3 4-1-2016 on going ££


this is exactaly how i filled my application

[Leeee704]

job number: ...... 2
job title: ........ public relation cons
date post created : 5-04-2016
if this job is being comined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job : job 3

employee name... emplyee 2 start date ...11-04-016 end dateon.... going hourly rate ££ part time (ticked)



job number: ...... 3
job title: ........ marketing cons
date post created : 9-12-2015
if this job is being comined with another job to make equivalent of 1 full time job, indicate which job:job 2

employee name... emplyee 3 start date ...4-1-2016 end date... ongoing hourly rate ££ part time (ticked)


my appolgies trying to make it more accurate

[marcnath]

ok.

That seems perfect.

So, unfortunately, a surprising CW error.

The refusal text seems to indicate that they have seen two part-time jobs but the total hours per week is not 30 hrs.

Just file your AR re-emphasising that Job 2 and 3 have lasted more than 12 months each, so can be combined under 49(b).

[CR001]

Are you asking this question for yourself or someone else as a previous post you made in the ILR sub forum has different information and timelines?

indefinite-leave-to-remain/ilr-set-o-fr ... l#p1602325

[Leeee704]

Are you asking this question for yourself or someone else as a previous post you made in the ILR sub forum has different information and timelines?

indefinite-leave-to-remain/ilr-set-o-fr ... l#p1602325

Dear CR001,

Actually, He is my friend used it with my permission to get some help on this forum. Next time he will make make his own id.

[Leeee704]

ok.

That seems perfect.

So, unfortunately, a surprising CW error.

The refusal text seems to indicate that they have seen two part-time jobs but the total hours per week is not 30 hrs.

Just file your AR re-emphasising that Job 2 and 3 have lasted more than 12 months each, so can be combined under 49(b).

yeh marcnath i am trying to telly number of hours from the payslips and with my accountant it seems fine
i am concern about the wording of case worker saying ( The evidence is not sufficient ).
can i ask HO for detail of refusal before AR? so we can undrstand what exactaly he is talking about

[zimba]

Hours worked in a position will be worked out by the case worker. You cannot claim someone worked whatever hours you say they worked.

The total pay divided by hourly rate gives total hours worked. That divided by the number of weeks, gives hours worked per week. This will be done for both employees and the total value should add up to at least 30 hours per week. You did not provide clear information on the period you claimed, hourly rates, etc

[Leeee704]

Hi Monarch & Zimba, Sorry to bother you again. My both part timers were on different Job titles. Do you guys think that job title has to be same for 2 part timer to make it 1 full time Job. Again I am post April 2014 Applicant. Was it mentioned anywhere in past guidelines? Because case worker mentioned that “ Employee B & C have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months”. Please help guys!

[marcnath]

Hi Monarch & Zimba, Sorry to bother you again. My both part timers were on different Job titles. Do you guys think that job title has to be same for 2 part timer to make it 1 full time Job. Again I am post April 2014 Applicant. Was it mentioned anywhere in past guidelines? Because case worker mentioned that “ Employee B & C have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months”. Please help guys!

1. They don’t have to be same title
2. You quoted a statement that makes no sense- I think OP had made a typo in that. It was meant to be Total not title

[Leeee704]

Dear Gurus,
I printed out 2 extra pages for the job creation table so basically in total there were 3 prints of same page.(For you reference Page number 46 of application form).
1 print for full time employee which is accepted
And other 2 prints for 2 part time employees. With the sequence of job 1,2 and 3 and all 3 with different job titles.
I also mentioned on the page of job 2 that "its combining with job 3" . same for the job 3 page that it's combining with job 2.
My question is did I suppose to use 1 page for both part time employees?
I have been to my accountant and number of hours are perfectly fine . But he said I supposed to mention both part timers on the same page also said because I'm post April 14 job title for part timers should have to be same. Is he correct ?
In that case if this is an error from my side can it be rectified in AR?
Please reply need help from all senior members.

[Leeee704]

Hi Monarch & Zimba, Sorry to bother you again. My both part timers were on different Job titles. Do you guys think that job title has to be same for 2 part timer to make it 1 full time Job. Again I am post April 2014 Applicant. Was it mentioned anywhere in past guidelines? Because case worker mentioned that “ Employee B & C have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months”. Please help guys!

1. They don’t have to be same title
2. You quoted a statement that makes no sense- I think OP had made a typo in that. It was meant to be Total not title

Hi Monarch & Zimba,
Please advise me on my new post kindly

[marcnath]

The evidence is not sufficient because the employee 2 and 3 have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months as specified above at paragraph 49 of the immigration rules.

Can you confirm if the highlighted text was correctly typed ? I assumed it was total and you typed it wrongly.

Dear Gurus,
I printed out 2 extra pages for the job creation table so basically in total there were 3 prints of same page.(For you reference Page number 46 of application form).
1 print for full time employee which is accepted
And other 2 prints for 2 part time employees. With the sequence of job 1,2 and 3 and all 3 with different job titles.
I also mentioned on the page of job 2 that "its combining with job 3" . same for the job 3 page that it's combining with job 2.
My question is did I suppose to use 1 page for both part time employees?
I have been to my accountant and number of hours are perfectly fine . But he said I supposed to mention both part timers on the same page also said because I'm post April 14 job title for part timers should have to be same. Is he correct ?
In that case if this is an error from my side can it be rectified in AR?
Please reply need help from all senior members.

I am always happy to learn from others, so if you can ask your accountant to point out where in the immigration rules it says the titles have to be the same, that would be very useful.

Based on the refusal text, the CW has taken note of both Employee 2 and Employee 3, they have clearly seen all your job table pages.

The problem seems to be that they don't see it totalling up to 30 hrs. Did you enter the hourly rate in the job table ? When you copied your table here earlier, that was just "££".

If the job table was filled correctly, I can't see any other issues. You would just apply for your AR, showing the monthly hours as you posted here and state that the totals each month work out to more 30 hrs/week.

[bubbly123]

Sorry to read your refusal
Please see the text from guidance


(a) A full time job is one involving at least 30 hours of paid work a week.
(b) “The equivalent of” a full time job means two or more part time jobs which add up to 30 hours a week will count as one full time job, if both jobs exist for at least 12 months. However, one full time job of more than 30 hours work a week will not count as more than one full time job.
(c) The jobs must have existed for at least 12 months during the period of the most recent grant of leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant.
(d) A single job need not consist of 12 consecutive months (for example it could exist for 6 months in one year and 6 months the following year) providing it is the same job.
(e) The jobs need not exist on the date of application, provided they existed for at least 12 months during the period of the most recent grant of leave.
(f) Different jobs that have existed for less than 12 months cannot be combined together to make up a 12 month period. The only exception is where you successfully applied as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) migrant before 6 April 2014 in which case you may be able to apply the job creation rules allowed under a transitional arrangement. Further details on transitional arrangements can be found below.N

In the guidance it says when you combine 1 job with two part time workers it’s fine but you have given different job titles for your part employees.
Please check with other experts.

[Leeee704]

The evidence is not sufficient because the employee 2 and 3 have not shown a job title of 30 hours per week for 12 months as specified above at paragraph 49 of the immigration rules.

Can you confirm if the highlighted text was correctly typed ? I assumed it was total and you typed it wrongly.

thanks again marcnath ,
unfortunately this is what exactaly my case worker wording is, i have copied everything exactaly the same.

[Leeee704]

I am always happy to learn from others, so if you can ask your accountant to point out where in the immigration rules it says the titles have to be the same, that would be very useful.

Based on the refusal text, the CW has taken note of both Employee 2 and Employee 3, they have clearly seen all your job table pages.

The problem seems to be that they don't see it totalling up to 30 hrs. Did you enter the hourly rate in the job table ? When you copied your table here earlier, that was just "££".

If the job table was filled correctly, I can't see any other issues. You would just apply for your AR, showing the monthly hours as you posted here and state that the totals each month work out to more 30 hrs/week.

i always acknowldge your advice .
My accountant said he is not a legal adviser ,this is just his analysis which is based on case worker wording .

yes i did enter the hourly rate , which was £7.2 till March 2017 but it increased to £7.5 in April 2017.
On same working hours pay increased accordingly on pay slips for each employee. On the job table i entered only £7.5 which was hourly rate on that time . But i did not enter that it was £7.2 before.

[zimba]

yes i did enter the hourly rate , which was £7.2 till March 2017 but it increased to £7.5 in April 2017.
On same working hours pay increased accordingly on pay slips for each employee. On the job table i entered only £7.5 which was hourly rate on that time . But i did not enter that it was £7.2 before.

Can you provide the exact dates and exact hourly rate you entered ?? Did you enter the two periods (different hourly changes) on different rows ??

[Leeee704]

Can you provide the exact dates and exact hourly rate you entered ?? Did you enter the two periods (different hourly changes) on different rows ??

Employee name (Start date) [ End date] {Hourly rate paid} (Part time)
Mr Roy .... (11-04-2016) [On going ] { £7.50} (ticked)

HY Zimba i tried to draw table , but unfortunatley their is no format available for table .
This is exactley how i filled the table .
No i did not enter the two periods (different hourly changes ) on different rows .I just used one row and entered £7.5 as hourly rate

[marcnath]

ok. What were the monthly salaries before and after the wage change ?
The way the CW would have calculated hours is by dividing the wage on FPS by 7.5. So, it would have showed lesser number of hours that you expected before March 2017.
But, since you were much more than the 130 required, it may not have been the reason.
Unfortunately, we are on a guessing game as the refusal text you gave is not clear enough and we don't know the exact documents you submitted.
If you have copies of all the documents you submitted, double check that you have not missed anything,
If everything is in order, I can't see it as anything other than a CW error

[Leeee704]

ok. What were the monthly salaries before and after the wage change ?
The way the CW would have calculated hours is by dividing the wage on FPS by 7.5. So, it would have showed lesser number of hours that you expected before March 2017.
But, since you were much more than the 130 required, it may not have been the reason.
Unfortunately, we are on a guessing game as the refusal text you gave is not clear enough and we don't know the exact documents you submitted.
If you have copies of all the documents you submitted, double check that you have not missed anything,
If everything is in order, I can't see it as anything other than a CW error

Dear marcnath,

I sent my application in August 2017 so pay slip break down for last 12 months are
Employee B : taxable pay from ( Aug 2016 to march 2017 ) is £388.80 which makes 8 months with £7.20/hr. ** Hours on payslips are 54** (Note: net pay is £311.20)
Pay From (April 2017 to July 2017) is £405 which makes 4 months with 7.50/hrs. ** Hours on payslips are 54** (Note:net pay is £324.00)


Employee C: taxable pay from ( Aug 2016 to Feb 2017 ) is £748.80 which makes 7 months with £7.20/hr . **Hours on payslips are 104**. (Note: net pay is £739.58)
March 2017 pay is 639.58 with 7.20/hr. ** 88.83 hours on Payslip**. (Note: net pay is £ 639.58)
April 2017 pay is £714.98 with 7.50/hr net pay is same. **Hours on payslip 95.33**. (Note: net pay is £ 710.78)
From ( 2017 May to July 2017) is £666.23 which makes 3 months with 7.50/hrs. **Hours on payslip 88.83** with same net pay .


Both employees worked for more than 12 months & they were on my payroll till my extension. Please check the above details i have portrayed from my file and advise. Any confusion please ask.

Regards,

[marcnath]

The hours on payslip is irrelevant since the job table has only one hourly pay.

However, even if 7.50 is used throughout, you will still be over 130 hrs/month combined.

Just do the calculations in your AR month by month

e.g.
Aug 2016 - Employee 2 (51.84 hrs) + Employee 3 (99.84 hrs) - Total 146.68 hrs, which is greater than 30 hrs/week.

Do that for all the 12 hours and make clear you are using 7.5 as that is what you entered wrongly in the job table, but the numbers would be higher if actual hours in payslip are followed.

[Leeee704]

Can you provide the exact dates and exact hourly rate you entered ?? Did you enter the two periods (different hourly changes) on different rows ??

Employee name (Start date) [ End date] {Hourly rate paid} (Part time)
Mr Roy .... (11-04-2016) [On going ] { £7.50} (ticked)

Respected Gurus ,
just found a new thing which i want to highlite
when i filled above table there was a column

start date with your business ( if this differs from satrt date in job)

i did not filled this section at all for my both employees .