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Good Character effect on dependants

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix

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xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:57 am

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone knows if failure to meet the Good character requirement extends to dependants. I was in breach of the immigration rules by not informing the HO of a change to my circumstances for a substantial time: 2-3yrs (due to a genuine misunderstanding of the rules). At the time I had 2 dependants, 1 adult and 1 minor at the time, now adult. When I realised I was in breach they applied to be dependants of another relative but this was refused based on immigration rules (nothing to do with my breach). Their visas were eventually granted via the courts; human rights 7yr concession for minors in 2010.

My question based on the above history is; does the fact of them being dependants of a person in breach of the immigration rules make them fail the Good character requirement by association?

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 11261
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by secret.simon » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 am

They will not be guilty by association. That is to say that they will not punished for you not meeting the Good Character requirements.

But if they in their own turn had a period of illegal overstay, they may not meet the Good Character requirements themselves.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:31 am

Thank you very much secret.simon for your response. I was mainly worried about the adult dependant. All their applications and appeals were done on time so there was no overstaying incidents.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 33338
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by vinny » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:42 am

secret.simon wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 am
They will not be guilty by association. That is to say that they will not punished for you not meeting the Good Character requirements.
Not for want of trying!
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:50 pm

vinny wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:42 am
secret.simon wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 am
They will not be guilty by association. That is to say that they will not punished for you not meeting the Good Character requirements.
Not for want of trying!
Hi vinny, I'm a little confused by your comment. Care to elaborate?

Anyway whilst we are here, do I take it you confirm secret.simon's answer that my dependant, in spite of being a dependant for 3 yrs on a visa that was in breach for that entire time, their Good character is judged independent of the primary visa holder?

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:03 pm

Hi vinny, never mind I just read the attached case and I get that they tried to make dependants guilty by association. I'll also add that my case is quite different, by miles I'd like to think!

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:23 pm

Hi all. Thanks for the above responses. The above mentioned former dependant, minor at time of my visa breach and now adult got his BC approval last week! Yay. I was fairly sure of his application as there is mention of minors not being affected by the transgressions of those they're dependant on.

I just wanted clarification as we're about to apply BC for my other former dependant who was an adult at time of my visa breach. I know the answers above say not guilty by association in terms of Good character. Fantastic.

My concern is the validity of that 3yr period itself. When I went to the first tier tribunal it was spelled out in the determination that had I informed the HO of my change of circumstances the visa would have been curtailed.
My worry is, as I was essentially on a "non valid" visa, consequently my dependants as well. Will this affect my former dependant's BC application?
As I mentioned above this issue has never been brought up in subsequent applications by my former dependant but I'm aware they will dig it all out.

The subsequent applications were:

as dependant of a different relative - refused for immigration rules "not an elderly parent living abroad alone under exceptionally compassionate circumstances...";

successfully appealed under Human rights Article 8 Private life + minor child's 7yr concession (this was no longer in existence, stopped a year prior I think, but was used by the judge in the ruling) - 3yr DL granted and a further 3yr DL + 2yr ILR now completed.
So 8 yrs since they ceased being dependants on my visa.

All the applications and appeals were in time. My former dependant's varied visas are from 2001, so 17yrs total with no gaps of any overstaying period to my knowledge, as I say my concern is that 3yr period from 2006-2009 (with the refusals and appeals, the visa was regularised in 2010, so 4 yrs I guess) and the reason why I am writing this.

Many thanks in advance for your help with this.

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:45 am

Hi all. I'm really hoping that someone might know the answer to my query. We're almost set for admission of this BC application but I'm really worried about this issue. Your input will be much appreciated.

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Re: Good Character effect on dependants

Post by xavieryves » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:42 pm

Hi all. I'm aware that the last 4 posts in this thread have been all me! So I'm left to assume that either people really haven't come across this issue before and can't possibly comment or I have muddied the waters a bit as on the face of it my subject title has been answered - and it's No, Good Character failure does not negatively affect dependants. I would change the title or start a new thread but that is not permissible as per the T&Cs of this forum and I'll respect that.

So, I'll try again:

Does being a dependant on someone who is in breach of their visa affect your BC application?

I appreciate the linked case that vinny attached but that case was to do with the individual's illegal activities rather than the visa itself. In my case it is the opposite - no illegal activities by both main holder or dependant but with a visa in breach of the immigration rules.

xavieryves
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:28 pm
Zimbabwe

Does being a dependant on someone who is in breach of their visa affect your BC application?

Post by xavieryves » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:04 pm

Does being a dependant on someone who is in breach of their visa affect your BC application?

I appreciate the linked case that vinny attached but that case was to do with the individual's illegal activities rather than the visa itself. In my case it is the opposite - no illegal activities by both main holder or dependant but with a visa in breach of the immigration rules.
I got some helpful answers to this question but not to the specific distinction quoted above when I asked it last year so in light of my former dependant getting their approval for British Citizenship today, The definitive answer is NO it won't affect you. Hope that helps someone as it would have been useful to me to know that.

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