Certificate of celibacy (Christian man and Muslim woman marriage)

[Epsilonn]

Hello everyone, my name is Nick and I am a Romanian citizen and my girlfriend is of Syrian nationality.We have been in a long distance relationship + seeing each other in Beirut, Lebanon for 2 years.

I managed to bring my my girlfriend (from Syria) on a visit visa in Romania. We are now in Bucharest. The only problem is that, in order to get married, we need the certificate of celibacy for her (we have ALL other documents). The document is ready and it is in Syria but needs approval from Internal Affairs there before coming to Romania to be approved at the Embassy here.

To put everything in a few words, this document cannot be approved in Syria at the Ministry of Internal Affairs because she is Muslim (in the birth certificate anyway as in real life she has a different religion) and I am Christian.

In order to get her celibacy certificate, we would send baptism & birth certificates + blood tests; both originals and certified translations in Syria. There, the documents would be used to generate and approve the celibacy certificate.

BUT... everyone, even at the Embassy, lawyers etc... say that we do that and we wait for 2 months to get a negative response because of our difference in religion!!!

AND apparently everywhere in Romania (even other countries) they require that celibacy certificate for us to get married!!!

Basically, one way would be me converting to Islam, which we both would not prefer.

The other way would be to wait for the visa to end so she can apply for asylum in Romania. He refugee status would allow us ton get married without too many complications from Syria.

Please some advice from someone with experience in this matter!

Thank you,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

I forgot... I know this is the UK forum but please help me with some advice as this is an universal matter.

Kind regards,
Nick

[secret.simon]

I forgot... I know this is the UK forum but please help me with some advice as this is an universal matter.

It seems to me to be a specifically an issue of the interaction between Syrian and Romanian law rather than either relating to the UK or indeed universal in any way. I will therefore move the thread to the EEurope immigration forum.

Not all countries require a celibacy certificate (presumably you mean something like the Filipino CENOMAR). To the best of my knowledge, the UK does not require one, for example. You could look at the marriage requirements for other EEA member-states and choose another country to get married in.

[Epsilonn]

Hi Secret.simon and thank you for the answer.

Can you suggest a country where we could both go and get married with no celibacy certificate and get a marriage certificate that would be valid in, for example, Romania, where they require the celibacy certificate?

I did not know we could do this as the marriage certificate would have to be universally recognized.

So why would they not require this document in another country, document which is impossible for us to get here (Romania) where I am a citizen?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

I am guessing you need a document which proves that the person is not currently married.
This is required to prove to authorities that the person is not married.

This is called Certificate of marital status.

I don't know how this works in her country but any official document stating her marriage status as "single" could be enough for Romanian authorities.

AFAIK easiest place to get married in the EU is Denmark.

You will still need to prove her marital status.

Hello everyone, my name is Nick and I am a Romanian citizen and my girlfriend is of Syrian nationality.We have been in a long distance relationship + seeing each other in Beirut, Lebanon for 2 years.

I managed to bring my my girlfriend (from Syria) on a visit visa in Romania. We are now in Bucharest. The only problem is that, in order to get married, we need the certificate of celibacy for her (we have ALL other documents). The document is ready and it is in Syria but needs approval from Internal Affairs there before coming to Romania to be approved at the Embassy here.

To put everything in a few words, this document cannot be approved in Syria at the Ministry of Internal Affairs because she is Muslim (in the birth certificate anyway as in real life she has a different religion) and I am Christian.

In order to get her celibacy certificate, we would send baptism & birth certificates + blood tests; both originals and certified translations in Syria. There, the documents would be used to generate and approve the celibacy certificate.

BUT... everyone, even at the Embassy, lawyers etc... say that we do that and we wait for 2 months to get a negative response because of our difference in religion!!!

AND apparently everywhere in Romania (even other countries) they require that celibacy certificate for us to get married!!!

Basically, one way would be me converting to Islam, which we both would not prefer.

The other way would be to wait for the visa to end so she can apply for asylum in Romania. He refugee status would allow us ton get married without too many complications from Syria.

Please some advice from someone with experience in this matter!

Thank you,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Hi Caravel88 and thank you for the reply. There were some ideas in this thread related to the fact that I could marry my girlfriend in a country where the single status document is not required.

Do you know of any country that would allow that, even outside the EU, a country easy to get to for someone from the EU and someone from non-EU area?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

Las Vegas

Hi Caravel88 and thank you for the reply. There were some ideas in this thread related to the fact that I could marry my girlfriend in a country where the single status document is not required.

Do you know of any country that would allow that, even outside the EU, a country easy to get to for someone from the EU and someone from non-EU area?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Vegas yes I know, I read about this online.

Is that even legit? There are so many stories... But we would need visa to get there anyway.

I am searching for countries that we can both visit without visas and that not require a long time in terms of residency and also do not require that letter of no impediment.

For example, Dominica seems to be a country that could provide us with all these things.

What other thoughts do you have in this regard?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

What lead you to this conclusion?

Dominca does seem to require a document, just like Romania, proving that neither party is married, which is the document you are claiming struggling to get.

Vegas yes I know, I read about this online.

Is that even legit? There are so many stories... But we would need visa to get there anyway.

I am searching for countries that we can both visit without visas and that not require a long time in terms of residency and also do not require that letter of no impediment.

For example, Dominica seems to be a country that could provide us with all these things.

What other thoughts do you have in this regard?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Hi Caravel88,

I checked this site:

https://www.marryabroad.co.uk/how-to-ma ... nica.shtml

Am I missing something? I don't see any letter of no impediment there...

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

You can not trust random websites created to make money when it comes to official matters.

Here is a link to an official Dominica government websites (social services):
http://socialservices.gov.dm/services/l ... 5-services

Check the section:
List of Required Documents for Grant of a Special Marriage Licence

You will see the following:
"Non-marriage certificate or affidavit attesting to the marriage status of applicants"

This is the same document you'd need to provide to Romanian authorities to get married there.

I highly doubt your partner's situation is as complicated you put it out to be.
It shouldn't be this hard to find a paper which states she is "single" (not married), which is should suffice to get married in Romania.

Hi Caravel88,

I checked this site:

https://www.marryabroad.co.uk/how-to-ma ... nica.shtml

Am I missing something? I don't see any letter of no impediment there...

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Literally we called everywhere here and the Embassy of Syria is the only one that can give us the document, after the document is issued from Syria at their Ministry of External Affairs.

I went to the Embassy 5 times so far to ask different questions and to put the matter in different ways. They taught us to go a different way because in Syria they want to know the person she is marrying too..... and his religion (which is Christian, which is my religion).

There are people there that cannot get married (inside Syria!!) if the man is not Muslim!!

That letter of no impediment would come only from Syria and, before that, they also require my Baptism Certificate that clearly states my religion (of course it would be translated etc... + other documents that are fine).

Any opinions?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

Here are some ideas:

A) Tell her to change her registered religion and then get the paper.

B) Try to find out if there is another paper you could get, such as "copy of identity / registration / citizenship reg. copy" etc. which shows marital status. Something similar to this is highly likely to exist.

C) Try to get the actual certificate based on grounds other than marriage. She could claim it is for another purpose in Romania.

D) Talk to Romanian authorities, using the status of her country as an excuse, to find another way to get married.

E) Find out if you can become "registered partners" in Romania. This is like marriage, legally, but without getting married.

F) Find out a way to live together long enough to be considered "partners" without getting married. I think this is couple years in the EU. Then you can travel / move to any other country together under Directive 2004/38.

Literally we called everywhere here and the Embassy of Syria is the only one that can give us the document, after the document is issued from Syria at their Ministry of External Affairs.

I went to the Embassy 5 times so far to ask different questions and to put the matter in different ways. They taught us to go a different way because in Syria they want to know the person she is marrying too..... and his religion (which is Christian, which is my religion).

There are people there that cannot get married (inside Syria!!) if the man is not Muslim!!

That letter of no impediment would come only from Syria and, before that, they also require my Baptism Certificate that clearly states my religion (of course it would be translated etc... + other documents that are fine).

Any opinions?

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Hi Caravel88:

A) Her religion is not the problem, mine is. I am the one who is supposed to convert to Islam and we do not want that as she is Muslim only by birth certificate as she has a different religion anyway but in Syria things are the way they are... either way, for her certificate of no impediment to be approved in Syria, OUR marriage has to be accepted by them and they are ok only when the man is Muslim; the girl can be of any religion...

B) We tried and asked everything in Romania and in Syria...

C) Hmm... other grounds for the that certificate of celibacy? Like what? That is supposed to serve the purpose of marriage. Basically when we go at the Embassy and she asks for the document, they simply ask for the future husband's (which is me) details... and that is like a door slammed in the face.

D) Yes! Only as a refugee she would not need that document.

E) Not possible in RO and in a few other countries in the EU

F) Yes, 2 years of living together is one of the requirements in the UK for the fiancee visa and there is a lot more to talk just on this matter.

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

Out of curiosity I would like to ask 2 things:

Regarding point A, it makes no sense to me. If she is not of any religion, why would they demand the spouse to be of a religion? What do people of other religions do in that country? For instance in Lebanon all marriages are "religious" and "In cases of interfaith relationships, either partner can convert to the faith of the other for the purpose of marriage."

Regarding point B, what documents are available then, that show a person's ID/national registration? Surely there has to be a document that gives full personal details. In fact I am 100% convinced that there would be such a document besides "celibacy document". Imagine you go to the consulate to get on a printed paper copy of your ID or registration details.. Something that either lists civil status OR something that lists personal events in one's life (such as birth, marriage etc). This has to exist. Trust me. There will be such a document.

And as of point C, I am not sure. You'd have to think of it.

However here are two more ideas for you:

1. Is there a "tax returns" type document there? These would show marital status.

2. You could ask Romanian authorities if they would accept a personal, legalised (notarised) affidavit stating that the person is single + never been married.

3. Could you do a religious (eg., Christian) marriage in a Church there? And then use that to immigrate to another EU country?

Which countries can she travel to with her passport and/or with a Romanian visa?

Help me to help you and let's brainstorm and find you a solution

Hi Caravel88:

A) Her religion is not the problem, mine is. I am the one who is supposed to convert to Islam and we do not want that as she is Muslim only by birth certificate as she has a different religion anyway but in Syria things are the way they are... either way, for her certificate of no impediment to be approved in Syria, OUR marriage has to be accepted by them and they are ok only when the man is Muslim; the girl can be of any religion...

B) We tried and asked everything in Romania and in Syria...

C) Hmm... other grounds for the that certificate of celibacy? Like what? That is supposed to serve the purpose of marriage. Basically when we go at the Embassy and she asks for the document, they simply ask for the future husband's (which is me) details... and that is like a door slammed in the face.

D) Yes! Only as a refugee she would not need that document.

E) Not possible in RO and in a few other countries in the EU

F) Yes, 2 years of living together is one of the requirements in the UK for the fiancee visa and there is a lot more to talk just on this matter.

Kind regards,
Nick

[ALKB]

F) Yes, 2 years of living together is one of the requirements in the UK for the fiancee visa and there is a lot more to talk just on this matter.

You are confusing this with the UK unmarried partner visa.

For the UK fiancée visa, there is no co-habitation requirement, the requirement is to have met in person.

[Epsilonn]

Hi ALKB, yes you are right! How does she prove the 'any previous marriages or civil partnerships have ended'?

Kind regards,
NIck

[Epsilonn]

Hi Caravel88, so:

She cannot switch to Christian as there this is not an ok thing to do .Basically, the Internal Affairs there has to approve OUR marriage!... I know it is weird... Only if I switch to Islam, which we do not want. She is Muslim only in birth certificate anyway because there it is the way it is.

Yes! The birth certificate, which is 3 weeks old (all her documents are new as I guided her to do everything before coming to me), shows almost all about her including civil status, which is single!!! But the letter of no impediment is needed too!

1. No tax-return , only birth certificate to show that, as stated above.

2. Yes, that is needed too! So, her civil status will come out from 3 documents: birth certificate, letter of no impediment AND sworn affidavit...

3. No, going in Syria is not an option AND, again, I am Christian and she is Muslim (again, in birth certificate only) and they do not approve this kind of marriage, be it civil or religious... And she cannot switch (only for Syria she cannot switch religion! if we do not have to deal with Syria, she can change religion to be like me of course and we go on with our lives...).

Countries where we can travel easily, with no visa or visa on arrival: Dominica, Seychelles, Tanzania just to name a few that are also nice to see... but they all require that letter of no impediment.

Las Vegas would be the only place not to ask for that letter of no impediment??? In the world???

Kind regards,
Nick

[ALKB]

Hi ALKB, yes you are right! How does she prove the 'any previous marriages or civil partnerships have ended'?

Kind regards,
NIck

Well, if there was a previous marriage or civil partnership, then she'd have to provide a divorce certificate.

I thought your fiancée had never been married?

[Epsilonn]

Hi ALKB, no, she is single. But to prove that, isn't that what the certificate of no impediment is? Or how?? Because this is the one document we cannot get from Syria.

First time we applied for UK fiancee visa we did not require such document (we got rejected because of asylum risk and because we had never met at that time)... Can you advice please?

Lind regards,
Nick

[ALKB]

Hi ALKB, no, she is single. But to prove that, isn't that what the certificate of no impediment is? Or how?? Because this is the one document we cannot get from Syria.

First time we applied for UK fiancee visa we did not require such document (we got rejected because of asylum risk and because we had never met at that time)... Can you advice please?

Lind regards,
Nick

I am surprised that a certificate of no impediment is not needed for a fiancée visa application but at the very latest you'd have to supply it when you want to get married.

You will find that most places in the world require official, up to date proof that a person wishing to marry is actually free to do so.

Have you looked into Micronesia? Their requirements seem to be rather wishy-washy but I haven't really researched.

[Caravel88]

What do you mean by "cannot switch to Christian as there this is not an ok thing to do"?

Even if you could get married in one of the countries for which she requires no visa, how are you planning to get to those places? Would you be able to go to Antigua? If so, how?

Hi Caravel88, so:

She cannot switch to Christian as there this is not an ok thing to do .Basically, the Internal Affairs there has to approve OUR marriage!... I know it is weird... Only if I switch to Islam, which we do not want. She is Muslim only in birth certificate anyway because there it is the way it is.

Yes! The birth certificate, which is 3 weeks old (all her documents are new as I guided her to do everything before coming to me), shows almost all about her including civil status, which is single!!! But the letter of no impediment is needed too!

1. No tax-return , only birth certificate to show that, as stated above.

2. Yes, that is needed too! So, her civil status will come out from 3 documents: birth certificate, letter of no impediment AND sworn affidavit...

3. No, going in Syria is not an option AND, again, I am Christian and she is Muslim (again, in birth certificate only) and they do not approve this kind of marriage, be it civil or religious... And she cannot switch (only for Syria she cannot switch religion! if we do not have to deal with Syria, she can change religion to be like me of course and we go on with our lives...).

Countries where we can travel easily, with no visa or visa on arrival: Dominica, Seychelles, Tanzania just to name a few that are also nice to see... but they all require that letter of no impediment.

Las Vegas would be the only place not to ask for that letter of no impediment??? In the world???

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Hi Caravel88, she cannot change her religion because rules in Syria are very strict. Let us not talk about the fact that we have been calling Internal and External Affairs and we get no answer...

To get to those countries... I don't know, how people get from one place to another. We will fly, surf, whatever it takes... I need to plan and learn before I do anything like that.

ALKB, I will read more about Micronesia...

Kind regards,
Nick

[Caravel88]

The problem is, to get to those countries you will probably need to transfer from an EU country or another place, which will require a transit visa.

I think you can get married in Antigua. But how will you get there?

Hi Caravel88, she cannot change her religion because rules in Syria are very strict. Let us not talk about the fact that we have been calling Internal and External Affairs and we get no answer...

To get to those countries... I don't know, how people get from one place to another. We will fly, surf, whatever it takes... I need to plan and learn before I do anything like that.

ALKB, I will read more about Micronesia...

Kind regards,
Nick

[Epsilonn]

Ahh, yes, sorry, about that... that is another thing I will have to worry about... Getting a transit visa is an easy process?

Kind regards,
Nick