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Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Only for UK Student Visas, formerly known as Tier 4 (General) student visa

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Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:56 pm

Hi all, received a shocking outcome "Tier 4 visa refusal". Planned to submit AR within 14 days.

Is it ok to submit AR request on 14th day as I need to build a strong case?

It says within 28 days I will receive decision. I presume I may get a decision within 14 days.

Had anyone received AR decision within 14 days?

After receiving AR outcome, if it is unsuccessful, within how many days I have to apply for new visa?

Any advice appreciated.

Thank you!!

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:58 pm

What was/were the reasons for refusal??

What is your full UK immigration history?

If AR is unsuccessful, you have 14 days to apply.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:13 pm

Thank you for your prompt reply.

*********************************
What was/were the reasons for refusal??

One of my bank statements not counted. Caseworker calculations incorrect.

What is your full UK immigration history?

Legally staying since 2015.
*********************************

So I have 14 days to apply after AR outcome.

As of now my stay is legal based on section 3c until my AR outcome.

Will I be covered under 3c, during the 14-day limit after receiving AR decision?

(I am being careful so I shouldn't be termed overstayer. I will be applying for new visa if my AR is unsuccessful. So, I should know the time limit available after AR outcome.)

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:32 pm

If AR is refused, your section 3C ends and you are then an overstayer until you get approval of a subsequent application.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:48 pm

So, you mean, within the 14-day time limit after AR outcome unsuccessful, will I be categorized as overstayer even if I have intended to apply for new visa?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:56 pm

SamTiger wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:48 pm
So, you mean, within the 14-day time limit after AR outcome unsuccessful, will I be categorized as overstayer even if I have intended to apply for new visa?
If your previous visa has expired then yes, if AR is refused, your section 3C protection ends.

Can you post the exact wording of the refusal, taking out personal details??
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Outcome says "visa refused due to insufficient funds"

Outcome letter dated 15th but received 17th. So when is the 14th day from my decision: 28th or 29th / 30th or 31st?

If I submit my case for AR on 28th, will I be getting the decision sooner, say 10 days or it would take at least 14 days?

If I get AR decision on 10th day from my submission, say 6th Aug, do I have to apply for visa the same day or the next day?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:13 pm

Outcome says "visa refused due to insufficient funds"
It is extremely useful if you expect advice from strangers on an internet forum, if you post the exact wording of refusal letter. If you had a bank statement that was even one or two days short of the required period for maintenance, it will be disregarded.
Outcome letter dated 15th but received 17th. So when is the 14th day from my decision: 28th or 29th / 30th or 31st?
Date of receipt.
If I submit my case for AR on 28th, will I be getting the decision sooner, say 10 days or it would take at least 14 days?
AR takes 28 days. It is not often a decision is given very quickly.
If I get AR decision on 10th day from my submission, say 6th Aug, do I have to apply for visa the same day or the next day?
You get 14 days from AR decision to submit a new application but you will still be an overstayer with no section 3C protection.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:25 pm

Thanks for your prompt advice CR001.

Sorry I'm outside hostel, i would post exact wording when back.

Let's say I submit AR on 30th July. So, outcome expected on 25th-27th Aug.

Say I receive unsuccessful outcome dated 26th Aug. Will I be termed an overstayer from 26th onward? or from 28th?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:30 pm

Likely from 26th.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:20 pm

Oh!! my goodness!! It's quite annoying to term someone overstayer right from the day the decision is made!!

Let's see below scenario:

AR submitted 30th July.

So 28th day from 30th July is 27th Aug; I may receive outcome between 24th and 27th Aug.

I plan to submit my visa application between 20th and 22nd Aug, i.e., before receiving the outcome.

Is it likely I may receive the outcome before my planned date (say by 15th Aug or before)?

The reason why I pose above question is, as you said, I become a overstayer when HO upholds my previous refusal.

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:21 pm

You should speak to your sponsor and get advice from them.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:23 pm

I plan to submit my visa application between 20th and 22nd Aug, i.e., before receiving the outcome.
If you submit an application before the result of the AR is made, your AR is automatically withdrawn.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:29 pm

Ya I agree with you CR001. Once I submit new application my AR is withdrawn.

I'm very concerned if I submit my AR on 30th July and then plan to submit new visa application between 22nd and 24th Aug, I feverishly don't expect to receive AR decision before 22nd Aug. So if HO is taking time to make a AR decision I am safe.

Are you aware of anyone received tier 4 AR decision within 10, 12 or 14 days?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:53 pm

As I said, it really depends on the exact wording of your refusal letter and the exact evidence you submitted.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:10 pm

Thanks CR001!! Will post the outcome words soon!

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:28 am

Hi all, I hope you could've read my earlier posts regarding visa refusal due to insufficient funds. I'm now preparing my case to be submitted for AR. It was an innocent mistake from our side that the funds were miscalculated for a 2-month extension given. Following a wrong advice, I maintained funds covering 2 months for me and my dependants, which should have been 2 months for myself and 6 months for my dependants. Had I known this earlier, sure I would have shown required funds. We were saving each and every penny for showing maintenance amount. God only knows how we sacrificed many of comforts and lived only with basic needs and to see this refusal which we never thought of is heart-breaking. I was actually in a high pressure to finish my thesis and I am the one who was doing everything right from collating documents and applying. So my stupid brain has miscalculated. But whatever happened has happened. It is an INNOCENT mistake and we never tried to deceive. Our 6-year immigration history is clean. This mistake happened due to misinterpretation of tier 4 policy guidance. We are genuine and we should not be punished for an innocent error which we can correct it now. Will the reviewer accept and let us show the required funds now, so that the refusal is cancelled?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:32 am

AR is for when the caseworker or HO have made an error, which you now state is not the case and that is was your error. AR will then likely fail.

You also can't submit new evidence for AR either.

You still have not posted the exact content of the refusal letter.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:55 am

Hi CR001, I will post the words in my refusal letter now: "the Secretary of State is not satisfied that the documents you provided demonstrate that your are in possession of the required level of funds." "the combined balance from both bank statements you submitted demonstrate that you are in possession of no more than...." ".....you have not demonstrated that you have the level of funds required over the specified 28-day period"

Please note "both bank statements" said by the caseworker.

I agree we innocently miscalculated the maintenance amount. At the same time, I noticed a calculation error by the case worker in my refusal letter. I showed maintenance in bank XXXX. And I have mentioned in the application form that maintenance amount is held in bank XXXX. I applied online and sent documents through post after a week of online submission. It had a bank statement (a joint account in bank YYYY) which I showed as a proof of living together. But the case worker has added up the statements XXXX and YYYY and come up with an amount. Even though the case worker calculated amount was a way long short of required amount which I should have shown, but it is a wrong calculation. And in the refusal letter sent, it bears the wrongly calculated amount by the case worker.

My point is: first, we made an innocent mistake by maintaining wrong amount; second, the caseworker had mixed up both statements XXXX and YYYY and given a wrong figure for refusal. I didn't say in the application form that maintenance is shown in two accounts. I had mentioned only bank XXXX. Statement for bank YYYY is shown only as a proof of living together. So, based on "benefit of doubt" shouldn't we be allowed to submit new statements now so that our refusal is cancelled?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:59 am

You cannot submit new evidence for AR. You failed to provide the required evidence for funds, then the refusal would be correct.

https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outrea ... dance.ofml
1. Overview

If you think that the Home Office has made a mistake about the result of your application to remain in the UK or in refusing you entry to the UK at the border you can ask us to review the decision.

This review will be done by a different person, but using the same documents and facts sent with your original application. We will ask for additional documents from you if required.
I cannot comment on what you state is a caseworker miscalculation as you don't state what the figures for bank XX or bank YY and what you claimed as funds and what the caseworker calculated.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:06 pm

Yes CR001. I'm aware I won't be able to upload or submit new docs for AR. But how about the miscalculation by caseworker, combining both statements when I have said and shown only one should be taken for maintenance. So, there is a valid caseworker error, right?

Ya, we failed to provide evidence of required funds, I mean, the amount shown was a way long short of required, which is actually an innocent mistake. Even then, the case worker had calculated a wrong amount as well.

That's fine if the review is conducted by a new person and using documents we submitted earlier. Even the new person will be able to figure out the amount has been miscalculated mixing up XXXX and YYYY figures.
There is a chance, right?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:20 pm

Amount I showed for 2-month extension:
Main: 1265x2=2530
Two dependants: 845x2x2=3380
Total: 5910
Amount shown in bank XXXX: £6100

Amount I should have shown for 2-month extension:
Main: 1265x2=2530
Two dependants: 845x2x6=10140
Total: 12670

Caseworker's comment:
"you need to show evidence of £12,670"
"the combined balance from both bank statements you submitted demonstrate that you are in possession of no more than £7,090.51 at any point during that period"
"As such, you have not demonstrated that you have the level of funds ...."

My point:
I have shown only £6100 for maintenance and caseworker has wrongly arrived at a figure of £7,090.51. How did it happen? If you see the statement which I sent for living together proof shows an amount which when you add up with the amount I showed for maintenance will give you £7,090.51. THIS IS THE ERROR I'M POINTING OUT.

Even though we fell short of required maintenance due to an innocent mistake, the caseworker shouldn't have quoted a wrong amount (even though it is far less that required) for visa refusal.

Do we have a chance?

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:23 pm

If the funds in bank XX was too low on its own and the funds in bank xx and bank yy combined was also too low, then what is your point actually??

If any funds you held did not meet the requirement, then it is your error and not caseworker error.

The caseworker might well have seen bank xx was too low and tried to see if combining the two, xx and yy, would reach the required level, which it clearly also did not.

As I said, without you stating what the actual figures of the funds for YY are as well, it is impossible for anyone on the forum to comment.

If you failed to meet the funds requirement, then your AR will fail.
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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by SamTiger » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:37 pm

Well. I agree with your point we failed to show required maintenance, which is a genuine innocent error. When I was given a 2-month extension after my visa expiry, I was thinking I should only be showing maintenance for required 2 months which resulted in refusal. I was actually saving funds and I would've shown it had I calculated it correctly. I wasn't aware that for dependants it is for 6 months rather than 2 months.

Amount in bank YYYY: £990.51. This YYYY statement was dated the 10th day after I had submitted my online application whereas bank XXXX has the statement dated the 29-day after the required 28 days. So, caseworker shouldn't have included the money in YYYY which may not have covered the 28-day period.

I understand the caseworker may have tried to help me by adding both the amounts, even then it is a long way short of required. But as a caseworker, you cannot add statements which are submitted for different purpose. If I am allowed, I am ready to submit statements for additional money which we have been saving for years. We are all genuine and our innocent mistake happened due to my high work pressure to submit thesis before deadline. Our misinterpretation should be pardoned as we have genuine reasons.

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Re: Tier 4 visa refusal - AR - new visa

Post by CR001 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:44 pm

I understand the caseworker may have tried to help me by adding both the amounts, even then it is a long way short of required. But as a caseworker, you cannot add statements which are submitted for different purpose.
Really, and this is stated where that they cannot use documents submitted, especially a bank statement, for another purpose?? Caseworker was trying to help to see if you could pass the funds requirement. If you had submitted YYY statement showing £6570 and the caseworker had IGNORED it for the funds calculation, you would have also been jumping up and down stating caseworker error as they did not count bank statement YYY which would have shown the required amount even though I submitted YYY for proof of address/cohabitation. So you see how feeble your argument is on this particular point!!
If I am allowed, I am ready to submit statements for additional money which we have been saving for years. We are all genuine and our innocent mistake happened due to my high work pressure to submit thesis before deadline. Our misinterpretation should be pardoned as we have genuine reasons.
You cannot submit new evidence for AR. It is the applicants responsibility to make sure they meet the requirements and submit the appropriate documentation. There is no 'pardoned' for an applicant miscalculating and submitted insufficient funds evidence.

You have a choice, you either submit AR (which is likely to fail) within 14 days OR you submit a new application within 14 days.
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