10 Months and No Second Stage Letter

[uhrir]

Hi Everyone,

I applied in early november in 2017 and I did not receive anything but application received letter. I understand that there are a lot of people waiting after second stage or in advanced stage but is there anyone in the same situation, and is that normal? Any ideas?

Thanks

[iceice304]

TBH nothing is predictable. You will get any examples you could think of..I applied in November 2016. Got second stage letter in July 2017. Since then it’s processing.
People have got approval letter in 6 months time to 3 years....

[ansliabhcorcra]

Hi Everyone,

I applied in early november in 2017 and I did not receive anything but application received letter. I understand that there are a lot of people waiting after second stage or in advanced stage but is there anyone in the same situation, and is that normal? Any ideas?

Thanks

As ICE stated, it is not predictable. There are many circumstances that affect an application and its processing time:

• the complexity of the case
  your country of origin
  the verification of documents
  basis of your application
  previous convictions/legal matters
  history with social departments
  Many others

If you look at an example, such as a British citizen applying for naturalisation vs an Indian citizen applying for naturalisation. The British legal system, processes and social norms are almost identical to those in Ireland. This makes it considerably easier to validate and verify the authenticity of documents and history. On the other hand, a citizen of India may have different cultural norms and a lengthier process in verifying the status and authenticity of documents and legal processes from that country. This is a very 'simple' explanation but each and every case is significantly different in terms of how it is processed. In my view, it doens't operate on a 'first come, first served' basis.

I can sympathise though. Waiting around is REALLY frustrating.

[Mal111]

what sort of checks and authentication take 2 to 3 years? they don't use pigeons to exchange information in Ireland with other authorities and countries.

we have indian Pakistani Bangladeshi doctors, nurses and many individuals work in a sectors that required garda vetting and authentication of not only their identity but also their qualifications!

there are 1000s of people applied in 2016 still waiting for decision on their application

•the complexity of the case ( complexity I-e authentication of id, good character your repeating below)
your country of origin ( WHATS THAT SUPPOSE TO MEAN )
the verification of documents ( almost all countries use electronic id documents and data is stored)
basis of your application ( loll this one is funny you can apply only under stamp 4 or 1)
previous convictions/legal matters (pulse system in Ireland its amazing how quickly all info can be obtained)
history with social departments ( every one has PSC card it take few clicks to get all that info)

You have no idea what your talking about

[max307]

what sort of checks and authentication take 2 to 3 years? they don't use pigeons to exchange information in Ireland with other authorities and countries.

we have indian Pakistani Bangladeshi doctors, nurses and many individuals work in a sectors that required garda vetting and authentication of not only their identity but also their qualifications!

there are 1000s of people applied in 2016 still waiting for decision on their application

•the complexity of the case ( complexity I-e authentication of id, good character your repeating below)
your country of origin ( WHATS THAT SUPPOSE TO MEAN )
the verification of documents ( almost all countries use electronic id documents and data is stored)
basis of your application ( loll this one is funny you can apply only under stamp 4 or 1)
previous convictions/legal matters (pulse system in Ireland its amazing how quickly all info can be obtained)
history with social departments ( every one has PSC card it take few clicks to get all that info)

You have no idea what your talking about

@Mal111 naturalisation in Ireland is a privilege and not a right. If you are not happy with the way the applications are processed you don't have to apply for it. No one is forcing you to apply for naturalisation, you can continue to live in Ireland for the rest of your life on a permanent residence stamp and avoid the upset of a naturalisation application.

I don't get why you get so fired up about the poster's comments.

[Mal111]

max307
where did I say its a right? your just quoting INIS website narratives again that has nothing to do with my post we are talking here about how DOJ process applications that is from the day we submit our application to the day it get to minister desk for approval and nothing to do with minister final decision.

its not the ministers fault if he is getting our application 2 years after the date of when we applied

the privilege is only in the making of final decision that is approve or refuse not how the application processed.

Process should be equal and fair to all and there is no privilege in that regard!

the ministers department is obliged to accept our application no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to consider our application no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to conduct all checks and procedure no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to give reason for refusal no privilege there
you see where i am going with this?

read this article below and educate your self learn the difference between discretion in making decision and fair process

why do you think the judge of supreme court instructed the minister to give refusal reasons since December 2012
so that the process could be fair to all!

http://www.cmcsolicitor.ie/wordpress/im ... alisation/

I respect all members here perhaps I got a little carried away in my last post apologies for that to ansliabhcorcra.

[max307]

max307
where did I say its a right? your just quoting INIS website narratives again that has nothing to do with my post we are talking here about how DOJ process applications that is from the day we submit our application to the day it get to minister desk for approval and nothing to do with minister final decision.

its not the ministers fault if he is getting our application 2 years after the date of when we applied

the privilege is only in the making of final decision that is approve or refuse not how the application processed.

Process should be equal and fair to all and there is no privilege in that regard!

the ministers department is obliged to accept our application no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to consider our application no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to conduct all checks and procedure no privilege there
the minister department is obliged to give reason for refusal no privilege there
you see where i am going with this?

read this article below and educate your self learn the difference between discretion in making decision and fair process

why do you think the judge of supreme court instructed the minister to give refusal reasons since December 2012
so that the process could be fair to all!

http://www.cmcsolicitor.ie/wordpress/im ... alisation/

I respect all members here perhaps I got a little carried away in my last post apologies for that to ansliabhcorcra.

I don't want to spam the original OP post so won't get into an argument with you.

If you can prove beyond doubt that the process isn't fair, feel free to sue INIS/Department of Justice and Equality OR withdraw your application for naturalisation until a fair process is put in place and then reapply.

Stamp 4 EUFAM based applications are under tight scrutiny and will be triple checked, there is a nationwide sham marriage investigation (Operation Vantage) that lead to 200 deportations and even straightforward simple applications are now taking longer than ever.

Again - no one forced you to apply but once you applied there is nothing you can do to speed up the process.

[Mal111]

I don't want to spam the original OP post so won't get into an argument with you.

and yet you did post

If you can prove beyond doubt that the process isn't fair, feel free to sue INIS/Department of Justice and Equality OR withdraw your application for naturalisation until a fair process is put in place and then reapply.

please don't tell me what should i do, my post to op was to challenge what he suggested that the time taking in applications is justifiable and according to me its not counter point of views on this form are productive because we all learn from each other but then along came you and keep suggesting that i should withdraw my application

Stamp 4 EUFAM based applications are under tight scrutiny and will be triple checked, there is a nationwide sham marriage investigation (Operation Vantage) that lead to 200 deportations and even straightforward simple applications are now taking longer than ever.

Again irrelevant material this post has nothing to do with EUFAM there is another poster sygm he is also waiting for over 2 years his visa is not under eu treaty rights and all checks and scrutiny is done on granting of residence card level so i don't know what your getting at by bring this up on the naturalisation topic

Again - no one forced you to apply but once you applied there is nothing you can do to speed up the process.

please don't tell me what should i do about my application i don't value your opinion

[ansliabhcorcra]

Mal, I think you're being pretty rude to people here expressing their opinions. There is no need for that.

I won't go through point-by-point of what you've tried to point out to me, but the fact remains that the processing time takes as long as it does, and there is little to nothing that can be done about it. The reasons I provided, I believe, are valid regardless of whether you believe them or not.

Let me give you an example: a friend of mine (German citizen) with 8 years residence (EU, so no stamps) had an approval in 3.5 months after application. Another acquaintance of mine, from India, is waiting now over 1 year and applied at a similar time. An American colleague of mine also applied in January of this year and received approval in July.

Nobody is telling you what to do, people are expressing an opinion - you can do what you want but getting angry at fellow posters on this forum really isn't going to change anything. Instead of giving out to us, you could direct your grievances to the relevant authorities and report back with their answers. (Note: not telling you what to do, but what COULD be done).

Thanks.

[max307]

Mal, I think you're being pretty rude to people here expressing their opinions. There is no need for that.

I won't go through point-by-point of what you've tried to point out to me, but the fact remains that the processing time takes as long as it does, and there is little to nothing that can be done about it. The reasons I provided, I believe, are valid regardless of whether you believe them or not.

Let me give you an example: a friend of mine (German citizen) with 8 years residence (EU, so no stamps) had an approval in 3.5 months after application. Another acquaintance of mine, from India, is waiting now over 1 year and applied at a similar time. An American colleague of mine also applied in January of this year and received approval in July.

Nobody is telling you what to do, people are expressing an opinion - you can do what you want but getting angry at fellow posters on this forum really isn't going to change anything. Instead of giving out to us, you could direct your grievances to the relevant authorities and report back with their answers. (Note: not telling you what to do, but what COULD be done).

Thanks.

Spot on!

[Alixlboy]

All that I can say is: Even if citizenship is a privilege and not not a right, people must not be kept deprived of this privilege for an indefinite period of time, as this can truly be frustrating to keep waiting for this privilege and see others getting it in a matter of few months. This is simply not fair and the previous ministers have also got into trouble because of similar issues. The only defence for the current one can be huge influx of applications due to brexit, mainly received in 2016, but still they need to hire more staff, as they get paid to give this privilege to those who deserve it.
P.S. Not in a mood to debate on the above. Everyone can hold their opinion, including myself.

[Paddy_Leprechaun]

In my opinion, the system ran by INIS is not transparent and fair to all. The department works mysteriously, there might be some reasons for the delay in any application such as verification/checks from the external agency from a foreign country. But, I also suspect it also depends on
i) which hand your application falls into,
ii) did it got buried under the pile of the files or came on top of that pile because someone approaches them to fast forward your applications,
iii) or simply the person dealing with your app went on long-term leave and nobody cares about pending tasks.

There is no harm if the department can give a policy statement that they will process all EU/UK applications within 6 months and others in 12 months due to difficulty in verification. As verification depends on individual cases they can simply send a letter to the individual that we have a red flag on your application and we won't be able to make a decision at a certain time.

Please don't tell me citizenship is a privilege and not a right or not to apply for citizenship if I am not happy with the process. If I have met all requirements for citizenship and department is approving applications of others with the similar situation, I should get it as well unless there is a solid reason for refusal. Still, there is no justification for not keeping the whole process transparent, or not approving applications with a random order or simply not making any decisions on some applications for years.

my 2 cents...

[2pac4ever]

Also, having a big travel history can result in delays in processing your application as they need to check all the stamps in your previous and current passports to ensure that you've met the conditions of your visa.

[bobu2kadu]

The process is absolutely not fair, neither reliable and this comes from an former Indian national who got naturalized recently , it took me over a year just 5 years of residence in Ireland. Those who say its a right not an obligation and all that BS. I would just say they are living in a fools paradise. This country was built by migrants.