Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

[marcnath]

Requirement is only that you should be a Director. You don’t have to invest at all in the company that you use for job creation

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Requirement is only that you should be a Director. You don’t have to invest at all in the company that you use for job creation

Many thanks marcnath for your valuable advice, it's much appreciated,

Regarding my investment in this particular company, it will be by shares,

My question: on my bank transaction from my personal bank account to the business bank account, should I describe it as "Investment" or "purchase a business" or " buying shares"?

Thanks in advance,

Best Regards.

[marcnath]

Investment by shares does not require business bank statements, so it does not matter what the statement says

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

Where did you see a requirement to submit proof of Job Titles ?

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

Where did you see a requirement to submit proof of Job Titles ?

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

I'm still on my first year on my Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa, and I just reading comments from other members in this discussion board regarding the employees job title, and I'm wondering if I need to submit any proof of my company employees job title as part of my extension or ILR application,

So on my employees monthly payslips and FPS documents nothing been mentioned regarding job title, this is why I'm asking if I miss something I should prepare.

Thanks in advance.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

Where did you see a requirement to submit proof of Job Titles ?

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

I'm still on my first year on my Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa, and I just reading comments from other members in this discussion board regarding the employees job title, and I'm wondering if I need to submit any proof of my company employees job title as part of my extension or ILR application,

So on my employees monthly payslips and FPS documents nothing been mentioned regarding job title, this is why I'm asking if I miss something I should prepare.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Team,

Any advice on the above?

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

Where did you see a requirement to submit proof of Job Titles ?

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

I'm still on my first year on my Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa, and I just reading comments from other members in this discussion board regarding the employees job title, and I'm wondering if I need to submit any proof of my company employees job title as part of my extension or ILR application,

So on my employees monthly payslips and FPS documents nothing been mentioned regarding job title, this is why I'm asking if I miss something I should prepare.

Thanks in advance.

There is no such requirement on job titles.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

During the extension or ILR application I find that we will need to state the job title for each employee, I'm wondering which document I need as a prove of the job title for each employee?, as on my employees payslips and FPS nothing been mentioned wrt the job titles.

Thanks in advance.

Where did you see a requirement to submit proof of Job Titles ?

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

I'm still on my first year on my Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa, and I just reading comments from other members in this discussion board regarding the employees job title, and I'm wondering if I need to submit any proof of my company employees job title as part of my extension or ILR application,

So on my employees monthly payslips and FPS documents nothing been mentioned regarding job title, this is why I'm asking if I miss something I should prepare.

Thanks in advance.

There is no such requirement on job titles.

Many thanks marcnath,

So this means that the only requirement to list the employees job titles will be on the extension/ILR application, without any requirements to provide any additional paperwork.

[marcnath]

Correct

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

I have established a limited company (Engineering consultant in the oil and gas industry), and I have invested part of my investment on that company, I'm the sole director of this company, and I receiving a director salary from that company (i.e £702 monthly), the company have two other employee (admin/marketing), and all three of us get paid by payroll (HMRC/FPS),

My question is with regards to the company activity and contracts with the clients (Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee)
The company have a contracts with clients (other consultants companies), so supply consultant services, with a day rate (onshore and offshore), and for example we have a contract with company x, and we have completed a services for 6 days on Sept, so the company send an invoice to company x, and then company X will pay my limited company as per the invoice to my company business account,

Keep in mind that all the contracts are between my limited company and those consultant companies, for the services of my self,

All the invoices are from my limited company, and all the payment paid directory to my limited company business bank account,

The company has contracts with clients (two consultant companies so far and one recruitment agent), and it state in the contract that the contract between company X and my limited company for the services of .... (My name),


On the basis that Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee, does what I'm doing as explained above can be considered as I'm employee to other businesses?

I'm not taking any payment to my personal bank account except the director salary I receive from my limited company, and shortly will be the dividends as my limited company is making a profit,

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

I have established a limited company (Engineering consultant in the oil and gas industry), and I have invested part of my investment on that company, I'm the sole director of this company, and I receiving a director salary from that company (i.e £702 monthly), the company have two other employee (admin/marketing), and all three of us get paid by payroll (HMRC/FPS),

My question is with regards to the company activity and contracts with the clients (Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee)
The company have a contracts with clients (other consultants companies), so supply consultant services, with a day rate (onshore and offshore), and for example we have a contract with company x, and we have completed a services for 6 days on Sept, so the company send an invoice to company x, and then company X will pay my limited company as per the invoice to my company business account,

Keep in mind that all the contracts are between my limited company and those consultant companies, for the services of my self,

All the invoices are from my limited company, and all the payment paid directory to my limited company business bank account,

The company has contracts with clients (two consultant companies so far and one recruitment agent), and it state in the contract that the contract between company X and my limited company for the services of .... (My name),


On the basis that Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee, does what I'm doing as explained above can be considered as I'm employee to other businesses?

Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly the kind of thing that the Tier 1 Ent conditions of leave do not allow. See below for the relevant immigration rule.
The guidelines further elaborate on that.
If HO becomes aware of this, your visa is likely to be curtailed.

Clause 245 DC(iii) of the immigration rules state:

(iii) no employment other than working for the business(es) the applicant has established, joined or taken over, but working for such business(es) does not include anything undertaken by the applicant pursuant to a contract of service or apprenticeship, whether express or implied and whether oral or written, with another business,

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

I have established a limited company (Engineering consultant in the oil and gas industry), and I have invested part of my investment on that company, I'm the sole director of this company, and I receiving a director salary from that company (i.e £702 monthly), the company have two other employee (admin/marketing), and all three of us get paid by payroll (HMRC/FPS),

My question is with regards to the company activity and contracts with the clients (Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee)
The company have a contracts with clients (other consultants companies), so supply consultant services, with a day rate (onshore and offshore), and for example we have a contract with company x, and we have completed a services for 6 days on Sept, so the company send an invoice to company x, and then company X will pay my limited company as per the invoice to my company business account,

Keep in mind that all the contracts are between my limited company and those consultant companies, for the services of my self,

All the invoices are from my limited company, and all the payment paid directory to my limited company business bank account,

The company has contracts with clients (two consultant companies so far and one recruitment agent), and it state in the contract that the contract between company X and my limited company for the services of .... (My name),


On the basis that Tier 1 Entrepreneur not allowed to be an employee, does what I'm doing as explained above can be considered as I'm employee to other businesses?

Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly the kind of thing that the Tier 1 Ent conditions of leave do not allow. See below for the relevant immigration rule.
The guidelines further elaborate on that.
If HO becomes aware of this, your visa is likely to be curtailed.

Clause 245 DC(iii) of the immigration rules state:

(iii) no employment other than working for the business(es) the applicant has established, joined or taken over, but working for such business(es) does not include anything undertaken by the applicant pursuant to a contract of service or apprenticeship, whether express or implied and whether oral or written, with another business,

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But the other companies paying to my limited company business account, and the invoices and the contracts are between my limited company and the other companies, so it's B2B services and I do my work as part of my limited company team (consultant) and not as an individual, and the other companies paying for the services we provide which is engineering consultancy onshore and offshore as per how many days we did the services for them per each month.

Is this still against Tier 1 Ent conditions of leave?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But the other companies paying to my limited company business account, and the invoices and the contracts are between my limited company and the other companies, so it's B2B services and I do my work as part of my limited company team (consultant) and not as an individual, and the other companies paying for the services we provide which is engineering consultancy onshore and offshore as per how many days we did the services for them per each month.

Is this still against Tier 1 Ent conditions of leave?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

It is up to HO to decide whether you are in violation of the conditions of stay. So I can't decide that.

But based on your description, I believe it does. Just using a limited company to do the invoicing clearly does not solve the problem. If so, every IT consultant (or any other consultant) will be claiming to qualify under T1E rules.

Have you gone through the guideline and tried checking against some of the criteria on pg 55/56 ? That gives an idea of how HO will assess your case.

Based on your description, you will probably answer No to the following:

• you can decide what work you do and when, where or how to do it;
• you can hire someone else to do the work;
• your client agrees a fixed price for your work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish;

which would likely be considered an not genuine entrepreneur activity.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

But the other companies paying to my limited company business account, and the invoices and the contracts are between my limited company and the other companies, so it's B2B services and I do my work as part of my limited company team (consultant) and not as an individual, and the other companies paying for the services we provide which is engineering consultancy onshore and offshore as per how many days we did the services for them per each month.

Is this still against Tier 1 Ent conditions of leave?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

It is up to HO to decide whether you are in violation of the conditions of stay. So I can't decide that.

But based on your description, I believe it does. Just using a limited company to do the invoicing clearly does not solve the problem. If so, every IT consultant (or any other consultant) will be claiming to qualify under T1E rules.

Have you gone through the guideline and tried checking against some of the criteria on pg 55/56 ? That gives an idea of how HO will assess your case.

Based on your description, you will probably answer No to the following:

• you can decide what work you do and when, where or how to do it;
• you can hire someone else to do the work;
• your client agrees a fixed price for your work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish;

which would likely be considered an not genuine entrepreneur activity.

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

• you can decide what work you do and when, where or how to do it;
My answer: Yes, nothing to force me to do the job, and I'm working with few clients/companies and not only one
• you can hire someone else to do the work;
My answer: Yes I can use others through my company to do the work, and this will be in the near future with my services expansion,
• your client agrees a fixed price for your work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish;
My answer: yes and No, few contracts have fixed price for service (i.e An audit), and all the others will be based on days/hours worked,

In the meantime my limited company have other services which will serve Master and PhD student's in chemistry related matters, and these services will be done by my employee, and my limited company get paid by quotations/invoices depending on the services required.


So my limited company do two businesses as explained above,
1#Consulting for the oil and gas industry.
2#Serving Master and PhD students and lecturers.

Looking forward to hearing from you your valuable advice.

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

• you can decide what work you do and when, where or how to do it;
My answer: Yes, nothing to force me to do the job, and I'm working with few clients/companies and not only one
• you can hire someone else to do the work;
My answer: Yes I can use others through my company to do the work, and this will be in the near future with my services expansion,
• your client agrees a fixed price for your work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish;
My answer: yes and No, few contracts have fixed price for service (i.e An audit), and all the others will be based on days/hours worked,


Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I can only keep repeating my answers - there is nothing much I can advice.
It does not matter if there is a mix - even if 9 out of 10 contracts are compliant, just the one that is not compliant means you have violated the terms.

The company have a contracts with clients (other consultants companies), so supply consultant services, with a day rate (onshore and offshore), and for example we have a contract with company x, and we have completed a services for 6 days on Sept, so the company send an invoice to company x, and then company X will pay my limited company as per the invoice to my company business account,

This clearly indicates that you are paid for based on the time it takes and not a fixed price.

The company has contracts with clients (two consultant companies so far and one recruitment agent), and it state in the contract that the contract between company X and my limited company for the services of .... (My name),

And this clearly indicates you can't hire someone else to do the work. It has to be specifically yourself.

I just picked a couple. You can go through all the rest yourself.

The guideline also clearly states it is not any one question - the CW will look at the overall picture. So, it is impossible to say what the decision will be.

All you can do is to go ahead with your extension application, don't attach any contracts and other documents that are not required and emphasis areas where the risk of non compliance is lower. And hope for the best - this is a problem only if HO finds it.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

• you can decide what work you do and when, where or how to do it;
My answer: Yes, nothing to force me to do the job, and I'm working with few clients/companies and not only one
• you can hire someone else to do the work;
My answer: Yes I can use others through my company to do the work, and this will be in the near future with my services expansion,
• your client agrees a fixed price for your work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish;
My answer: yes and No, few contracts have fixed price for service (i.e An audit), and all the others will be based on days/hours worked,


Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I can only keep repeating my answers - there is nothing much I can advice.
It does not matter if there is a mix - even if 9 out of 10 contracts are compliant, just the one that is not compliant means you have violated the terms.

The company have a contracts with clients (other consultants companies), so supply consultant services, with a day rate (onshore and offshore), and for example we have a contract with company x, and we have completed a services for 6 days on Sept, so the company send an invoice to company x, and then company X will pay my limited company as per the invoice to my company business account,

This clearly indicates that you are paid for based on the time it takes and not a fixed price.

The company has contracts with clients (two consultant companies so far and one recruitment agent), and it state in the contract that the contract between company X and my limited company for the services of .... (My name),

And this clearly indicates you can't hire someone else to do the work. It has to be specifically yourself.

I just picked a couple. You can go through all the rest yourself.

The guideline also clearly states it is not any one question - the CW will look at the overall picture. So, it is impossible to say what the decision will be.

All you can do is to go ahead with your extension application, don't attach any contracts and other documents that are not required and emphasis areas where the risk of non compliance is lower. And hope for the best - this is a problem only if HO finds it.

Many thanks marcnath for highlighting these points, it's much appreciated,

Actually I'm still on my first year under tier 1 entrepreneur visa, I have only got it in January 2018, so my extension will due in May 2021, but I would like to be sure that I'm following the rules, and any correction required I can do it from now, as I don't like to discover something not correct close to extension/ILR (3 years) date when it will be too late to recover it,

Many thanks for your support, really much appreciated.

[marcnath]

Ok. I did not take note of your dates.

Note that since you have potentially violated the terms of your visa, it can be curtailed at any point in time if the HO becomes aware of it. It is not necessarily only at the time of extension.

Your clients (especially the consulting companies) have an obligation to report to HMRC when they don't do the PAYE on your payments.

Look through this and see if anything is applicable to your case.

I am not sure how good the link between HMRC and HO is.

If I were in your place, I would immediately terminate all such suspect contracts. That way, if I am caught, I could at least argue that I made a mistake and corrected it well before I was caught.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

I just wondering if you can explain to me the job and employee meaning as per HO requirement for extension or ILR (Job Creation),

If for example:

Case 1:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Marketing assistant (same job title, so filled the same position) and lasts for more than 12 month, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

Case 2:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Admin assistant (different job title) and lasts for more than 12 months, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

I would like to understand if HO is looking for emplyee working for the company(s) for more than 12 month each, or looking for how many job titles created by the company,

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Hi Team,

I just wondering if you can explain to me the job and employee meaning as per HO requirement for extension or ILR (Job Creation),

If for example:

Case 1:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Marketing assistant (same job title, so filled the same position) and lasts for more than 12 month, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

No, that is just ONE job which has a break of no employee filling that job. Imagine if it was 3 months and 9 months instead of 15 and 12 months, you would want it to be treated as one job.

Case 2:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Admin assistant (different job title) and lasts for more than 12 months, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

Under the current rules, it would be considered as TWO jobs.
But it is not Job Title, but Jobs. And Jobs is not defined by HO. I think if they suspect that the employees are doing the same kind of job but just using different job titles, they have enough flexibility in the rules to define it as not genuine and hence not to award points.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

I just wondering if you can explain to me the job and employee meaning as per HO requirement for extension or ILR (Job Creation),

If for example:

Case 1:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Marketing assistant (same job title, so filled the same position) and lasts for more than 12 month, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

No, that is just ONE job which has a break of no employee filling that job. Imagine if it was 3 months and 9 months instead of 15 and 12 months, you would want it to be treated as one job.

Case 2:
Employee A worked in company x as Marketing assistant for 15 month, and then he resigned, and after 3 months Employee B joined the same company as Admin assistant (different job title) and lasts for more than 12 months, does this qualified as creation of TWO full time jobs?

Under the current rules, it would be considered as TWO jobs.
But it is not Job Title, but Jobs. And Jobs is not defined by HO. I think if they suspect that the employees are doing the same kind of job but just using different job titles, they have enough flexibility in the rules to define it as not genuine and hence not to award points.

Many thanks marcnath for your clarification, it's much appreciated,

Best Regards.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

A british citizen will be joining my business team, he is currently resident in another country, but he will work for my business from his place without the need for him to be physically present all the time in the UK (i.e. online work and network connections work), I plan to pay him under PAYE payroll for his services,

Does this will be counted as One job creation under HO requirement for Ext/ILR application?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

[marcnath]

Hi Team,

A british citizen will be joining my business team, he is currently resident in another country, but he will work for my business from his place without the need for him to be physically present all the time in the UK (i.e. online work and network connections work), I plan to pay him under PAYE payroll for his services,

Does this will be counted as One job creation under HO requirement for Ext/ILR application?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

There are no physical presence requirements for employees in the immigration rules. You may want to check about the legal and tax issues about it with a suitable lawyer.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

A british citizen will be joining my business team, he is currently resident in another country, but he will work for my business from his place without the need for him to be physically present all the time in the UK (i.e. online work and network connections work), I plan to pay him under PAYE payroll for his services,

Does this will be counted as One job creation under HO requirement for Ext/ILR application?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Thanks in advance.

There are no physical presence requirements for employees in the immigration rules. You may want to check about the legal and tax issues about it with a suitable lawyer.

Many thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated.

[tier1entrepreneur-A]

Hi Team,

One of my employee will give birth later this month, and she is not qualified for SMP, so she will receive a Maternity Allowance (MA), so the accountant has informed me that her Dec Payslip will be for the working hours until stop working day, and from January 2019 onward she will still appear on the FPS to HMRC but showing no pay for that month(s).

My questions are:
1.Does that period will be part of the qualified 12 month period for ext/ILR application, or I will need to ignore it on my ext/ILR application?

2.If at time of extension/ILR application she (the employee) has been working with me for the full three years, do I will need to fill the employee table on the ext/ILR application from day one until the application date and list all the details (i.e. including hourly rate change), or I only need to list any 12 month employment period for that employee?

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.