Questions about job creations documents

[Lusokeung]

Hi

Q1: Below para from T1E guidance. Please advise "the year immediately before the jobs were created" is referring to 12 months before the directorship OR 12 months before the 2 jobs created. For example, my directorship started from 1 Apr 2016 and 2 jobs created from 1 Sept 2017. Should I submit monthly FPS of Apr 2015-Mar 2016 OR Sept 2016- Aug 2017?

Extra documents needed if you took over or joined an existing business

If you have taken over or joined a business that employed workers before you joined it, you must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment, which you must sign and date:
1. Duplicate HMRC Full Payment Submission (you could submit either 12 months worth of monthly Full Payment Submissions, or a financial year end document running April-March) to HMRC under Real Time, or
2. If the business started employing staff for which points are being claimed before they were reporting under Real Time, a P35 form.

Q2: I understand that two jobs creation must be at least 12 months. Please advise if these 12 months must be in consecutive. Is it allowed a gap between? I have employed staff who resigned on mid of June, but replacement on board on 1 Aug. Any concern?

Thanks a lot.

[bizman]

You can’t give documents you don’t have. You became director April 2016, you need to submit documents from that time till end of your leave depending on when you employed workers. Also it doesn’t matter if there are gaps in between employments, you just need to have created two jobs that have lasted for twelve months each. It is the job and not the person that matter to HO

[marcnath]

Hi

Q1: Below para from T1E guidance. Please advise "the year immediately before the jobs were created" is referring to 12 months before the directorship OR 12 months before the 2 jobs created. For example, my directorship started from 1 Apr 2016 and 2 jobs created from 1 Sept 2017. Should I submit monthly FPS of Apr 2015-Mar 2016 OR Sept 2016- Aug 2017?

Extra documents needed if you took over or joined an existing business

If you have taken over or joined a business that employed workers before you joined it, you must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment, which you must sign and date:
1. Duplicate HMRC Full Payment Submission (you could submit either 12 months worth of monthly Full Payment Submissions, or a financial year end document running April-March) to HMRC under Real Time, or
2. If the business started employing staff for which points are being claimed before they were reporting under Real Time, a P35 form.

Q2: I understand that two jobs creation must be at least 12 months. Please advise if these 12 months must be in consecutive. Is it allowed a gap between? I have employed staff who resigned on mid of June, but replacement on board on 1 Aug. Any concern?

Thanks a lot.

Did you set up a new business or join an existing business ?

[Lusokeung]

Hi

I joined an existing company.

My solicitor suggested me to submit job advertisement and 2-3 CVs from candidates with my personal letter as evidence to explain and show my best effort to fill in the gap of job vacant. Please advise if it is necessary to do so.

[marcnath]

Hi

I joined an existing company.

My solicitor suggested me to submit job advertisement and 2-3 CVs from candidates with my personal letter as evidence to explain and show my best effort to fill in the gap of job vacant. Please advise if it is necessary to do so.

If you joined an existing business, you need to provide pay documents for 12 months before the jobs you are claiming was created.

So, if you created the job in Sept 2017, then it should be from Sept 2016 to Aug 2017.

Of course, the job created and job filled can be very different. So, if you actually did create the job in Apr 2016 and did not hire someone until Sep 2017, then you will submit pay documents from Apr 2015 to Mar 2016. Though it is not clear to me what difference that would make.

The 12 months does not have to consecutive.

[bizman]

Marcnath is right

[Lusokeung]

Hi

I think I made mistakes in capturing the outdated para from T1E guidance. Here is the Jul 2018 version:

if the business in employed workers before you took over or joined it, you must also
provide the following documents for the year immediately before you joined the business and
the years that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment and signed and
dated by you:

(i) duplicate Full Payment Submission sent under Real Time to HM Revenue & Customs, or
(ii) if the business started employing settled workers before reporting under Real Time, a
form P35.

Because the version updated, I found I have difficulties to provide the FPS or P35 before my directorship. Will it be concern in my extension application?

[bizman]

Of course it’s going to be a concern f you can’t provide the documents, they are the documents to compare your current FPS with to ascertain you created required number of jobs.

[Lusokeung]

Hi

I can provide FPS from Apr 2016 onward. Job created from 1 Sept 2017.

However, if required FPS (i.e. Apr 2015 to Mar 2016) before my time, it may be other documents can be provided instead of FPS or P35.

There is no employee between Apr 2016 - 30 Aug 2017, until I created two from 1 Sept 2017.

Please advise.

I also concern that if HO keeps update the guidance and tighten the requirement, I may not be able to fulfill something unexpected or not enough time to prepare.

[marcnath]

Hi

I can provide FPS from Apr 2016 onward. Job created from 1 Sept 2017.

However, if required FPS (i.e. Apr 2015 to Mar 2016) before my time, it may be other documents can be provided instead of FPS or P35.

There is no employee between Apr 2016 - 30 Aug 2017, until I created two from 1 Sept 2017.

Please advise.

I also concern that if HO keeps update the guidance and tighten the requirement, I may not be able to fulfill something unexpected or not enough time to prepare.

Were there any employees between Apr 2015 and Mar 2016 ?
If so, why can't you provide the FPS ? What documents can you provide ?

[Lusokeung]

Hi

There were two employees till Apr 2015, which means no employee starting from May 2015.

Accountant gave Apr 2015 payslip and payroll summary to me. I’m asking for additional documents now.

[Lusokeung]

Hi

If 12 months documents before I joined the company required and there were two employees in Apr 2015, does it mean I need to create two extra (ie maintain four employees)?

I only created two employees and maintain two employees up to now because my company cannot afford and do not need 4 employees.

Please advise.

[Lusokeung]

Hi

If 12 months documents before I joined the company required and there were two employees in Apr 2015, does it mean I need to create two extra (ie maintain four employees)?

I only created two employees and maintain two employees up to now because my company cannot afford and do not need 4 employees.

My question is net increase which base on 12 months before you joined the company or 12 months before job creation to count?

Please advise.

[marcnath]

Hi

If 12 months documents before I joined the company required and there were two employees in Apr 2015, does it mean I need to create two extra (ie maintain four employees)?

I only created two employees and maintain two employees up to now because my company cannot afford and do not need 4 employees.

Please advise.

This is a grey area.

While the immigration rules state that there should be a net increase of jobs, there is no guidance on how that is calculated.

I would think you would be ok. If the only employees were 12 months before you joined, it is quite logical to assume that it is your contribution that helped create new jobs.

So I wouldn't worry too much. And anyway, there is nothing you can do about it.

[Lusokeung]

Hi Marcnath

Thank you for your reply.

I agreed and same thoughts as you. For example, if there are 3 employees exist during I joined, then I created two more, total five exist at the same time. However, one of these 3 pre-exist employees left, I think it is not necessary to create one more to replace. I keep two employees those I created that would be fine I think. It is correct?

I also think that you can prove that you created two new employees with at least 12 months which is the most important. Documents eg FPS and P35 of 12 months before you joined is to prove the employees are before or after your directorship. They should not be the same of your two newly created employees. Does it make sense?

[marcnath]

Hi Marcnath

Thank you for your reply.

I agreed and same thoughts as you. For example, if there are 3 employees exist during I joined, then I created two more, total five exist at the same time. However, one of these 3 pre-exist employees left, I think it is not necessary to create one more to replace. I keep two employees those I created that would be fine I think. It is correct?

I also think that you can prove that you created two new employees with at least 12 months which is the most important. Documents eg FPS and P35 of 12 months before you joined is to prove the employees are before or after your directorship. They should not be the same of your two newly created employees. Does it make sense?

First thing to note is that it always about JOBS, not employees

To answer your first part, if you had three jobs when you joined, then the expectation is that there should be 5 jobs during the period in which you claiming points for job creation. I.e. if one of the initial employees left, you are expected to hire a replacement to keep the job filled.

That goes again to your second part - yes, two new JOBS for 12 months is the most important thing.

[Lusokeung]

Hi Marcnath

So you mean no matter how many existing employees left after I joined, then I have to replace all of them? GBP200K is not only to create two employee to fulfill net increase, but also maintain number of staff. If the company is no profit, cut staff is very normal I think.

However, in my case, I have no employees during I joined the company (April 2016), then I created two position and employees onboard starting from 1 Sept 2017. Do you think I fulfill HO's job creation requirement?

Thanks a lot!!

[Lusokeung]

Sorry Marcnath

I think I got what you mean on different between JOB and Employee now.

Two JOBS really newly created after my directorship and no employees 11 months before I joined the company. I hope it is fine.

[Lusokeung]

Hi

If no luck to retrieve those FPS reports before I joined the company because of software change, can I ask accountant to prepare the FPS manually from data sources (eg XML, payroll file), instead of automatically download.

I have kept full set of FPS reports for job creation period.

Thanks!

[Lusokeung]

Hi

If no luck to retrieve those FPS reports before I joined the company because of software change, can I ask accountant to prepare the FPS manually from data sources (eg XML, payroll file), instead of automatically download?

I have kept full set of FPS reports for job creation period.

Thanks!

[marcnath]

Hi

If no luck to retrieve those FPS reports before I joined the company because of software change, can I ask accountant to prepare the FPS manually from data sources (eg XML, payroll file), instead of automatically download.

I have kept full set of FPS reports for job creation period.

Thanks!

The rules only specify that you need printouts of the RTI submissions. It is not clear that it has to be exact copies of the original submitted.