Dual Citizenship, Two Passports and EC/LTR/ILR Process

[rose99]

Hello,

This is my first posting and I am writing from Canada. I had applied for HSMP in December and have been notified about the approval over e-mail just recently. At this point of time, I am still waiting for my documents and approval letter to arrive, and had a couple of e-mails from my HSMP case worker regarding the approval and delivery of my package. Now, that is sorted out and I am preparing with my family to apply for the EC, which we have to do some time by the end of May/beginning of June (which depends on the actual date of my approval, that I have yet to see).

I have a dillema that needs to be solved before I apply for the EC, and I am hoping that some of the Moderators (or anybody else who is well versed in the subject) here will be able to help me. I have asked my HSMP case worker about this as well, but she said she could not give me an answer, and that I should ask the EC officer. When you check the British embassy's (in Ottawa) web site, they don't want to be contacted and specifically say that they do not have phone number nor e-mail where you can ask questions, as, apparently, they have the whole process, and a long list of FAQs listed there on the web site. I agree with that, but my question is very different from what is on their web site... The EC applications also need to be done on-line, and if I want to ask something, I should mail them an ordinary letter or fax it. It seems to me that it will take some more time to get an answer, so I was hoping that maybe somebody here could be able to answer this quickly, as I have to make some decisions very fast.

Here is what is my concern: my family and I have both Canadian and Croatian citizenship and reside in Canada at this point (and for the past 8 years). Because of our Croatian citizenship, we did not have to pay fees for the HSMP application, because of the note on The Immigration and Nationality Directorate (IND) web site which says: “In accordance with UK’s international obligations under the 1961 Council of Europe Charter or the European Social Charter (revised), nationals of countries who have signed and ratified the Charter are exempt from a charge. Therefore, nationals of Albania, Armenia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Moldova, Romania and Turkey would not incur a charge.” I have sent my Croatian citizenship document along with my HSMP application, and that was enough for the fees to be vaiwed.

At this moment, we have valid Canadian passports (valid until May 2008) and the expired Croatian passports (but valid Croatian citizenship). We need to apply for the Entry Clearance (EC) before the end of May probably (depends on the date of our HSMP visa approval), and wanted to do that using the Canadian passports. We plan to obtain new Croatian passports during this summer in Croatia (they will be valid for 10 years) and use them from then onward. Now we wonder if it is possible to use the Croatian passports later on when we want to apply for the Limited Leave to Remain (LTR) at the end of our year 1 in the UK, and for the Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) after 4 (or is it 5 years now? – please answer this as well) years of our stay in the UK? Is it possible to start our HSMP status as Canadian citizens and with the Canadian passports and continue it as Croatian citizens and with the Croatian passports? Do we have to send in our expired Croatian passports together with the Canadian passports at the time of our EC application in order to be able to use both citizenships down the line?

The reason why we want to do all of this is that we now have only Canadian passports as valid, and won’t be able to obtain new Croatian ones (probably) before the end of May (when we need to apply for the EC by latest), and if we use our Croatian citizenship and passports later on in the process of LTR and ILR then we won’t have to pay any fees as Croatia has signed the Council of Europe Charter and has also signed last year the European Community Stabilisation and Association Agreement and for those reasons the Croatians are exempted from paying any LTR and ILR fees. Also, our Canadian passports will expire in May 2008, so as we will have the Croatian ones valid at that time, we would like to use them, and not to have to rush to get the new Canadian ones…

Another important issue is that as Canadians we are also the Commonwealth citizens and I am not sure if as such we maybe have a different status in the EC (LTR, ILR) process. But on the other hand, Croatia might become a full member of the European Union during this decade, and we might get certain bonus (re: our intentions to make the UK our permanent home) in the UK because of that as well. So, my question is - what is your opinion re: our dual citizenship and two passports?

I hope that you understand our dilemma and will be able to answer if we could switch between the passports, once in the UK, during the process of EC, LTR, and ILR. As a business woman, I always think of the best optimum options, and like to plan everything down to a tiny detail, and am now trying to choose the best option for my family… I will be more than grateful for your help with this matter!

Thanks in advance for your help!

Rose

[Kayalami]

1. Doesn't matter which passport you use at EC, FLR or ILR stage as long as it is valid and of course belongs to you. Not ethe EC form asks for all your nationalities/ citizenships.

2. Citizenship specific waivers e.g. application fees only granted where proof of designated citizenship submitted - so if you want a free HSMP renewal submit your (valid) croation docs too.

3. Regarldless of passport used a visa is granted based on you meeting all the other relevant immigration rules - where there is a residence requirement you must demonstrate such by submission of all travel documents covering said period. Such is cross referenced with immigration records held on file based on your UK entry and soon (around fall) exits. Likewise for HSMP there is a requirement for economic activity.

4. IMHO the amendment/change in the ILR period to 5 yrs is not likely in the 1st half of this year. We have an election predicted in the first week of May and some legislative work needs to be done to amplify the immigration proposals...should be another 2/3 months.

5. Commonwealth citizens get no special treatment as such although they have two immigration categories open to them - working holiday visa and ancestry visas (albeit with additional conditions). They are also not required to register with the police although such can be required of anyone subject to immigration control.

[rose99]

Thanks Kayalami!

So you're saying, we can now get our EC stamped in the Canadian passport, and then next year get the extension in our Croatian passport, and after 4 (or 5) years get the ILR in that same Croatian passport, but we will have to prove that both passports/citizenships are legal. If that is the case, than we are OK, as that won't be hard to prove!

I just don't won't to spend money and time that is not necessary during the next few years in order to have both passports valid and non-expired.

Rose

[Kayalami]

So you're saying, we can now get our EC stamped in the Canadian passport, and then next year get the extension in our Croatian passport, and after 4 (or 5) years get the ILR in that same Croatian passport, but we will have to prove that both passports/citizenships are legal. If that is the case, than we are OK, as that won't be hard to prove!

Its a viable and presumably your only option given the issue of getting new croation ppts. Is there a croatian embassy in Ottawa or does the one in DC (US) cover it? By the way I was under the impression that the voluntary (adult) acquisition of a 2nd citizenship negates/ revokes your croation citizenship.

I just don't won't to spend money and time that is not necessary during the next few years in order to have both passports valid and non-expired.

You can treat me to a poutine with the savings eh

[rose99]

Hi Kayalami,

thanks for your persistance and determination to help! We are a family of five, and want to save money on unecessary passports/visa fees along this process if that is possible, and it seems it is. Just has to be planned carefully.

Croatian citizenship allows dual citizenship and we have both Canadian and Croatian at this point of time, just like many other Croatians that live in Canada. We are also aiming at getting the British one down the road . Croatia allows more than two actually, so we are OK that way . I think that it is still Serbia (as another part of former Yugoslavia) that does not allow dual citizenship. Croatia has never been in that situation.

There is a Croatian embassy in Ottawa of course, and a consulate in Toronto, but we are not sure that we could get our new Croatian passports by the end of May... it all depeneds on the embassy and that can last longer than what they promise it would be. But, we will apply for them anyway - I just wanted to know what to do in case if we don't get the new Croatian passports on time.

What happened here is that we did not expect our HSMP application to be processed so quickly, and we were counting on getting the new Croatian passports this summer, and then to use them if our application gets approved in the Fall. But, it seems that we have been plesantly surprised and now have to move quickly on other decisions related to passports and EC process.

If we don't get our new Croatian passports on time, we will have to apply for the EC with the Canadian passports, and enter the UK with them, but use the Croatian ones later on when the Canadian passports expire in 2008, if that is possible, and you are saying it is. We don't want to pay the fees for the new Canadian passports in 2008 when we have the Croatian ones already, and are on our way to get the UK ones after 5 years of being in the UK, which might happen in 2010.

Thanks Kayalami again,

Rose

[rose99]

Oh, forgot to say this - we don't eat poutine, but we do cook (both my husband and I) some great Mediterannean and Central European food, and you are welcome!