EU / non-EU couple, visiting Ireland, complaint with EU

[ca.funke]

Hi all,

I lodged a complaint against Ireland with the European Commission.

Should anyone wish to join in I'd be grateful.

This is my email to the commission:

---------- Original message ----------
From: Christian
Date: Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:07 PM
Subject: Complaint against the Republic of Ireland
To: sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu

I hereby lodge a complaint against the Republic of Ireland.

This complaint comprises two items:

Item 1:

Directive 2004/38/EC (available here), article 5, section 2, states:

Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with
Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with
national law.
(...)
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain
the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(...)

The comission's website clarifies this as follows:

YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA

Family members holding nationality of certain countries[3], which are subject to visa obligation, may be required to have an entry visa.

It is not allowed to require any other type of visa, such as residence or family reunification visa.
(...)
The Member State of destination should grant you every facility to obtain the necessary visa, which shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(...)
As your right of entry is derived from your family ties with a Union citizen, all the Member State consular officials can ask you to produce for the visa application is your passport and a document establishing the family ties with a Union citizen, such as marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where applicable.
(...)

As a summary, when an EU-citizen wants to visit Ireland together with his/her NON-EU spouse, and where 2004/38/EC applies, all that Ireland is allowed to demand before BEING OBLIGED to issue a visa, is:

• both passports AND
• the marriage certificate

The Republic of Ireland does not follow this interpretation. As stated on the website of the relevant Irish authority, an EU-citizen who wants to visit Ireland together with his/her NON-EU spouse has to produce the following papers, before Ireland will deal with the visa application:

• Application Form
• Passport
• Valid Residence Card for EU State
• Marriage Certificate – evidence (apostilled document) that marriage has been registered in applicant's country of origin/residence
• Birth Certificate (long form) for children under 21 years, parental consent, national identity card (signed if required)
• Evidence that the EU Citizen spouse is exercising their EU Treaty Rights by being employed/self employed in the State or engaged in a valid vocational training programme or has sufficient financial resources and comprehensive sickness insurance cover
• Evidence that the applicant is accompanying the EU Citizen to Ireland – e.g. return airline/ferry tickets in both names

The additionally demanded papers ignore the spirit of the directive, and directly contradict what is stated on the commissions' website, as cited above.


Item 2:

The same directive, 2004/38/EC (attached, and available here), article 5, section 2, states:

Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa
(...)
For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
(...)

The comission's website clarifies this part as follows:

YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA

Family members holding nationality of certain countries[3], which are subject to visa obligation, may be required to have an entry visa.
(...)
Possession of the valid residence card, referred to in the relevant fact sheet, issued by any Member State, exempts you from the visa obligation not only in the Member State which issued the residence card, but in all Member States.
(...)

As a summary, a married EU / non-EU couple, who is in posession

• of a residence-card
• that is issued according to this law
• by any EU-state other than Ireland

are allowed to enter Ireland without an additional visa.

The Republic of Ireland does not follow this interpretation. The website of the relevant Irish authority does not state this fact at all.

Instead, Ireland insists that the visa, as described, is necessary for any visit to Ireland, regardless of personal circumstances.

Please investigate whether the Republic of Ireland could be in breach of the cited passages of directive 2004/38/EC.

[Christophe]

Do let us know the outcome of the complaint in the fulness of time, ca.funke.

[eufreemovement]

Hi all,

I lodged a complaint with the EU again Ireland.

Should anyone wish to join in I'd be grateful.

Please investigate whether the Republic of Ireland could be in breach of the cited passages of directive 2004/38/EC.

In case Case C-68/89 ECJ states ".............................The only pre-condition which Member States may impose on the right of such persons to enter their territory is the production of a valid dentity document or passport. Consequently, where a Member State requires nationals of another Member State to answer questions concerning the purpose and duration of their stay and the financial means at their disposal for it before being permitted to enter its territory, it is in breach of its obligations under Directive 68/360 on the abolition of restrictions on movement and residence within the Community for workers of Member States and their families..............."

Hope the above will be useful to you.

[86ti]

Please investigate whether the Republic of Ireland could be in breach of the cited passages of directive 2004/38/EC.

Have a look at the Official Journal of the European Union (notice number 2008/C 116/32, Case C-122/08, scroll down to page 18.) Though this is about the UK and it is not clear from the text how the UK failed to implement the Directive, it may encourage you to continue with your complaint. (2008/C 116/34 on page 19 is about the Irish case that has been mentioned on this forum recently, I suppose)

[mym]

Alos see http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/ ... 991_EN.doc

Mr. R. D., a Dutch national, works in the United Kingdom and resides there together with his spouse, a third country national. He complains that the Irish Consulate in London required his spouse to produce a 3 months bank statement, a hotel reservation and a letter from her employer when she applied for an Irish tourist visa to accompany him on his business trip to Dublin. He considers that those were unnecessary formalities as she is entitled to free movement because of her marriage to a Union citizen.

As the right to move for a third country family member of a Union citizen derives from the family relationship alone, the Member State’s requirement to present any supporting documents beyond those establishing the identity and family link would be an obstacle to free movement.

The Irish Permanent Representation replied by letter of 13 April 2006 in which they acknowledged the problems Mr R.D. and his spouse encountered while travelling to Ireland and they conceded that the requirements did indeed violate Community legislation.

They also informed that for the past twelve months, the requirements for third country family members accompanying a Union citizen travelling to Ireland are as follows – passports of the applicant and Union citizen, the original marriage certificate and three photographs. Moreover, all Irish Embassies and Consulates have been reminded of these requirements.

[MAKUSA]

Hi all,

I lodged a complaint with the EU again Ireland.

Should anyone wish to join in I'd be grateful.

This is my email to the commission:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###

To: sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu

I hereby lodge a complaint against the Republic of Ireland.

This complaint comprises two items:

Item 1:

Directive 2004/38/EC (available here), article 5, section 2, states:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with
Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with
national law.
(...)
Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain
the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###


The comission's website clarifies this as follows:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA

Family members holding nationality of certain countries[3], which are subject to visa obligation, may be required to have an entry visa.

It is not allowed to require any other type of visa, such as residence or family reunification visa.
(...)
The Member State of destination should grant you every facility to obtain the necessary visa, which shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
(...)
As your right of entry is derived from your family ties with a Union citizen, all the Member State consular officials can ask you to produce for the visa application is your passport and a document establishing the family ties with a Union citizen, such as marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where applicable.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###


As a summary, when an EU-citizen wants to visit Ireland together with his/her NON-EU spouse, and where 2004/38/EC applies, all that Ireland is allowed to demand before BEING OBLIGED to issue a visa, is:

• both passports AND
• the marriage certificate

The Republic of Ireland does not follow this interpretation. As stated on the website of the relevant Irish authority, an EU-citizen who wants to visit Ireland together with his/her NON-EU spouse has to produce the following papers, before Ireland will deal with the visa application:

• Application Form
• Passport
• Valid Residence Card for EU State
• Marriage Certificate – evidence (apostilled document) that marriage has been registered in applicant's country of origin/residence
• Birth Certificate (long form) for children under 21 years, parental consent, national identity card (signed if required)
• Evidence that the EU Citizen spouse is exercising their EU Treaty Rights by being employed/self employed in the State or engaged in a valid vocational training programme or has sufficient financial resources and comprehensive sickness insurance cover
• Evidence that the applicant is accompanying the EU Citizen to Ireland – e.g. return airline/ferry tickets in both names

The additionally demanded papers ignore the spirit of the directive, and directly contradict what is stated on the commissions' website, as cited above.


Item 2:

The same directive, 2004/38/EC (attached, and available here), article 5, section 2, states:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa
(...)
For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###


The comission's website clarifies this part as follows:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
YOU MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ENTRY VISA

Family members holding nationality of certain countries[3], which are subject to visa obligation, may be required to have an entry visa.
(...)
Possession of the valid residence card, referred to in the relevant fact sheet, issued by any Member State, exempts you from the visa obligation not only in the Member State which issued the residence card, but in all Member States.
(...)
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###


As a summary, a married EU / non-EU couple, who is in posession

• of a residence-card
• that is issued according to this law
• by any EU-state other than Ireland

are allowed to enter Ireland without an additional visa.

The Republic of Ireland does not follow this interpretation. The website of the relevant Irish authority does not state this fact at all.

Instead, Ireland insists that the visa, as described, is necessary for any visit to Ireland, regardless of personal circumstances.

Please investigate whether the Republic of Ireland could be in breach of the cited passages of directive 2004/38/EC.

I would join you as well, just waiting on my acknowledgement slip and my trip to GNIB. I have already been told that i would get a stamp 3. so i am waiting for that but you can also write to siobhan.duffy@ec.europa.eu, she is a solicitor and works for EU office in Ireland on Dawson street. Good luck, this DOJ are highly incompetent and useless

[knapps]

EU is not gonna act on any kind of plea as Ireland is so important to them than us. I am in a situation where im myself living in ireland for 4 and ahalf year. married here and got eu fam 4 stamp every year uptill now for three years when i filled out a form EU 1 for long one they want a proof for 1 year residence in another member state...lolllll i met my wife here and we got married here and this is a joke to give them such information...

[Ako Dong]

Sorry put in wrong thread

[astartes]

EU is not gonna act on any kind of plea as Ireland is so important to them than us.

You are mistaken about that. Ireland is a huge drag on EU finances and one of the worst behaved nations within the EU.

The Irish government propaganda to the contrary notwithstanding.