Refused my husband visa

[daniya]

Hi,

I`m an Irish national, my husband submitted the application 8 weeks ago, and he got his refusal today, it says

F - (Finances: evidence provided is deemed
insufficient or incomplete) PF - (The granting of the
visa may result in a cost to public funds) PR - (The
granting of the visa may result in a cost to public
resources) RH - (Relationship History: have not
shown evidence of a relationship being in existence
prior to visa application/marriage)

I sent my wedding photographs, i had an arranged marraige hence i dontt have a history, this is so BLOODY ridiculous, my spouse cannot ENTER my country?

I`m ready to sue INIS for refusing my husband, can some one recommend a lawyer to send them notice?

My husband owns couple of properties and his income is more then $100,000 a year, how can they refuse him a visa based on this?

THIS IS beloved AT ITS PEAK.

[John56477]

In the Irish culture, it was always forbidden to live with, or have intimate relationship before marriage. It was called living in sin.
Now the DOJ seem to demand that you live in sin before marriage.
It is outrageous.

As regards arranged marriages via a match-maker, nowadays this is rare,
but it was a part of Irish Culture, and is not alien.

As regards insufficient funds, not since the time of the Fields of Athenry
when Irish Family members deported for being "poor"
So why are DOJ bringing back British policies.

This is the mess of the DOJ, if they are accusing you of having a marriage of convenience,
then they should come out and say it. Not cast aspersions.
and use weasel words and weasel ways.

Under breath beloved sadly is a part of it.

[daniya]

What legal options do i have?

[scrudu]

John56477: your inflamatory remarks are incorrect and unhelpful

daniya: please supply a full list of all documents supplied in your application. Your non EU husband do not have the right to live in Ireland based on his marriage to you. INIS and DOJ docuemnts are quite clear on this point. Any visa is granted "at the discretion of the Minister for Justice".

You need to address each of the points listed by the INIS .

• 1) Relationship History. Living together is not required, although it is often a clear way of evidencing your relationship. Visits to the non-EU country to meet with your fiance, or his visits to you in Ireland would all be helpful in evidencing your relationship. As would letters, emails, evidence of phone calls etc.
  2) Finances. What evidence did you submit on his behalf? Did you show evidence of a career or savings? Take a look at the evidence submitted and see if you can provide more to prove that he will be self sufficient and will not be reliant on the state.

When submitting an application for a spouse to join you here in Ireland, the points you are always trying to address are:

• 1) Prove that the non-EU applicant will not become a burden on the State. You need to show clear evidence of either your or his savings to show he will not become a burden on the State.
  2) Prove that the relationship is "real" and not simply a marriage of convenience. You need to prove that you know each other, and have a pre-existing relationship to your marriage. Otherwise it would seem to the DoJ/INIS that the marriage was one of "convenience" and intended to get a visa, rather than facilitate a marriage.

Sueing them probably isnt an option at this point, but that really depends on what evidence you submitted to back up your applicaiton for a visa. I'm not sure where you get the beloved angle from. Do you think they are being harder on your husband because of his nationality?

[daniya]

They are definately being racisit. I submitted exit/entry stamps to our honeymoon and business trips, our wedding hall bookings, photographs of both our reception, hotel bills on our honey moon. we have had an arranged marraige, that means we did not know each other before the marraige, while now the concept is alien in the west, it is perfectly normal to have arranged marraiges and the visa officer knows this perfectly well, that in my husband's part of the world arranged marraiges are the way of life. How else do i satisfy them? I definately think they attacked his nationality, and not the facts, i had submitted lots of facts.

And are you saying that EU laws would help me more in another country for my spouse then my OWN, don't you think this is insane?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

And are you saying that EU laws would help me more in another country for my spouse then my OWN, don't you think this is insane?

Sure. The laws in another country may sometimes be more advantageous than those in Ireland. And EU law may sometimes be more advantageous than those in Ireland. No surprise there.

[scrudu]

Daniya: From what you list as evidence supplied it seems you just sent in lots of proof that you actually married? This is already documented by your marriage certificate. As I posted before you applied, the DoJ want to ensure that this is not a marriage of convenience so the onus is on YOU to prove that it isn't. How is the DoJ/INIS to differentiate between your marriage and another marriage where the couple never met but are marrying for the sake of a visa? Imagine a couple from Ireland & Country X marry so that the national of Country X can enter Ireland. They would probably be submitting evidence similar to what you submitted (e.g. evidence of a marriage but not of a relationship). Why should the DoJ/INIS treat you differently and understand that simply because Pakistan still has many arranged marriages that it should understand why you have no evidence of your relationship? That would be beloved and blatant discrimination.

If you had planned on moving to Ireland straight after your marriage, it would have been an idea to check out the immigration protocol before marrying to ensure that you would meet it.

I'd imagine at this stage, since you cannot prove your relationship before the marriage, you should wait and try to prove your relationship after your marriage. As you are both currently living in the same country, you can build up evidence of living together and having an established relationship. It's also probably worth checking on the UK pages how other Asian Britons who enter arranged marriages get evidence of their relationship to evidence to the UK Immigration. Most of the Irish policies are based on the UK ones, so finding out how other people in similar situations handle this would be helpful.

You do not say what evidence you supplied showing "sufficient finances", but it seems whatever you did send didn't satisfy the Immigration officer.

As for whether it would be more easy for you to live in another EU country instead of Ireland, yes it would. EU Directives grant you and your husband the right to live together in another EU country. These rules do not apply to you in Ireland unless you had previously been resident of another EU member state. This is also the case for other EU nationals who have different rights in other EU countries than their own.

As for my personal opinion, yes I think it's insane that spouses of Irish citizens do not have more rights, and I've been fighting that issue in Ireland. The point is that if you are going to enter into a mixed nationality marriage, and wish to enter another country (even if it is your home country), you need to be aware of the laws and procedures that are involved.

I'd advise that you take another look at the evidence you submitted and see where the gaps are. There are many other posts on this site which advise on how to best approach this situation, and many people who have been successful on their second attempt.

[daniya]

Thank you for all your response, can any one suggest an immigration lawyer that can draft the case? Thanks

[daniya]

can some one recommend me a lawyer, who can file the appeal?

[daniya]

I`ve gathered all evidences, scanned everything in one document, and would like to know if an immigration officer can polish this up, so i have a better chance, i am also sending my 3 years bank statement of my husband from Canada, where his income is $120,000 a year, would this help me? i have also included our honey moon pictures, we have travellled 3 countries together, both exit and entry stamps together, his property documents (contracts with developer) photos on all 3 trips.

Thanks

[susy1]

I`ve gathered all evidences, scanned everything in one document, and would like to know if an immigration officer can polish this up, so i have a better chance, i am also sending my 3 years bank statement of my husband from Canada, where his income is $120,000 a year, would this help me? i have also included our honey moon pictures, we have travellled 3 countries together, both exit and entry stamps together, his property documents (contracts with developer) photos on all 3 trips.

Thanks

hi daniya,

so sorry to hear that ur hubby was refused. i know how u feel as im in the same boat. my husband got refused as the eco said that we did not provide a nikah nama (islamic marriage cert) even though we had provided it - the original in Urdu and English., they returned the certs back to us when my husband collected his passport from the BHC in islamabad.

its really unfair, ppl take every measure to ensure they submit all the relevant docs required but then get refused over stupid things due to the incompetence of the the ECO's. its really frustrating, but just b patient, oneway or another our hubbys will get their visas!!

we've appealed against the decision, playing the waiting game now,

[Ako Dong]

Hi Daniya,

Sorry to hear you were refused a Visa for your husband.

The 'PF' & 'PR' reason will nearly always follow a 'F' (finances) failure.

You will have to supply evidence that a relationship existed before the marriage or for some time afterwards. These are the rules, and they are there for a reason. Do you really think that they should overlook this because of your culture/religion, when everyone else has to comply with it.

Lots of people on this board have real grievances, and were refused visas after they complied 'in principal' with the requirements set out by immigration. The way I see it you are not one of these people. Making statements like 'THIS IS beloved AT ITS PEAK' is very unhelpful, when you clearly admit you did not send the right documents and/or did not satisfy the basic requirements.

If you go to a solicitor here in Ireland, he will give you the same advice that SCRUDU has given you above and before you applied all for free.

If you look on the Visa website they give you examples of what documents are helpful to support your claim. It would also do you no harm to read carefully through SCRUDU's post above and disregard the uninformed remarks by John in the first answer to your post. Scrudu is trying to help even if you dont like to hear what he has to say.

Good Luck with the appeal

Ako Dong

[daniya]

susy1 thank you so much, Ako thanks to you too i`m appealing the case now, lets see what happens thanks

[susy1]

susy1 thank you so much, Ako thanks to you too i`m appealing the case now, lets see what happens thanks

keep us updated,