Visa Granted After 3rd Application

[Y123m]

Sadly, i have been told by my MP that my wife’s spouse visa application has been refused. He was told by an home office official yesterday. So far we have not received back the passport so do not know, on what basis they refused.
As i have been told by other members in other topics, i needed to provide additional documents as both my parents are directors of the Ltd company i am employed at. This is the only thing that comes to mind as to why they may have refused. Due to this i have a few questions.

1. One of the documents needed is the CT600 which is dated in April. I need to provide payslips/bank statements for this period. However, i do not have payslips before August last year, falling three months short. Do i need to wait till next April or is there a way around it?

2. If the application is refused due to not providing these documents, then when i apply again, can i rely just on savings? I have more than £70,000 in two accounts in my name. Will the home office see my employment from the previous application or will they just consider the savings. The savings includes my salary so will they ask anything about this. Has anyone been successful by just applying on savings?

Thanks in advance

[seagul]

2. If the application is refused due to not providing these documents, then when i apply again, can i rely just on savings? I have more than £70,000 in two accounts in my name.

Yes if these funds hadn't been fallen than £62500 during the last 6 months.

[Y123m]

I have another query. If we reapply once we get the passport, does my wife need to take the A1 english test again? The current one expired last month and was accepted in our first spouse visa application.

[seagul]

I have another query. If we reapply once we get the passport, does my wife need to take the A1 english test again? The current one expired last month and was accepted in our first spouse visa application.

Not 100% sure that whether will it work because previous visa wasn't approved despite due to other reason. Why don't you redo even A2/B1 test which will be helpful in future applications too.

[Y123m]

One thing i need clarification on is that if am a employee of a Ltd company where a family member is the director, then can i combine income with savings to meet the financial requirement?

[seagul]

One thing i need clarification on is that if am a employee of a Ltd company where a family member is the director, then can i combine income with savings to meet the financial requirement?

Preferably use only savings if they are sufficient to keep the case more straightforward.

[Y123m]

One thing i need clarification on is that if am a employee of a Ltd company where a family member is the director, then can i combine income with savings to meet the financial requirement?

Preferably use only savings if they are sufficient to keep the case more straightforward.

Thanks for the reply. Is it allowed to combine income and savings as directors are not.

[seagul]

One thing i need clarification on is that if am a employee of a Ltd company where a family member is the director, then can i combine income with savings to meet the financial requirement?

Preferably use only savings if they are sufficient to keep the case more straightforward.

Thanks for the reply. Is it allowed to combine income and savings as directors are not.

Savings can always be combined with income but if you are employed by your family members then an extensive range of additional documents are needed. As you said to have sufficient savings so better to use them only.

[Y123m]

Today my wife received her passport back and the visa was refused. It was refused on basis that my employment was not genuine and that we did not provide the documents under paragraph 9a. I had savings above £62,500 but this was not considered as they said the employment was not genuine so they cant be satisfied by the cash savings.
This is the 2nd application that has been refused and so far i have considered re-applying by using only cash savings.
Im sorry if i am repeating asking the same questions but i need to make everything crystal clear.
1. Is reapplying the best option?
2. Once reapplied, does the ECO look at previous applications and will they look at the employment in this application?
3. Part of my cash savings is in a savings account, which can be withdrawn at any time without any limit. The cash in this account has not been withdrawn for many years but has only increased. Will this be an issue?
4. The other part of my savings is in a current account. This is where my salary is paid into. Will the ECO ask where this money comes from and do i need to prove my employment?
5. What documents do i need to give besides 6 months statements to show my savings? And how do i prove the money is declared?

Part of my savings has cone from shares which was deposited into my account last year. I provided proof of this in this application and will do same again.

If anyone has any information that can help me then please do provide it. Thanks

[seagul]

Copy paste the refusal reason by deleting your personal details. Was the self employment only the source of cash savings??

[Y123m]

Copy paste the refusal reason by deleting your personal details. Was the self employment only the source of cash savings??

Ok i’ll post the refusal letter later.
Yes, my salary is the only source of income. I’m not self employed. My parents are the directors.

[seagul]

Copy paste the refusal reason by deleting your personal details. Was the self employment only the source of cash savings??

Ok i’ll post the refusal letter later.
Yes, my salary is the only source of income. I’m not self employed. My parents are the directors.

Maybe appeal would be better because if you would use cash savings again then again they might refuse on grounds that its not from genuine employment.

[Y123m]

The refusal letter is below. I am only posting the main parts as two pages were just about paragraph which was copied from the guidance. One thing to add is that they did not write anything regarding my santander savings account.

Reasons for refusal

Suitability
Under paragraph EC-P.1.1 (c). your application falls for refusal on grounds of suitability under section S-EC Appendix FM because:
In your application you state that your sponsor is employed by XXXXXXXLtd and an interview was conducted with your sponsor and his stated employer. The transcript of this interview is held with your application. Following this the following discrepancies were seen:
- Your sponsor's employer was asked about his job title and responsibilities. Your sponsors employer noted he was a sales representative as purely financial admin roles including him being responsible for ‘recovery of monies’, ‘handling all the financial side’ and matching ‘income to sales book’. These duties do not match with the declared job title and there has been no mentton or any duties which would be applicable to the Machine operator role.

Your sponsor was asked the same questions concermng his role and duties. He again confirmed he was a Sales Representatrve and noted his duties as going
round to shops In and around Blackburn and other cities and try to sell our products. The interviewer then asked a follow on question about any other responsibilities he had, of which your sponsor answered ‘nothing else'. This does not match his father‘s account of his roles or employment documentation that has been provided. There was no mention at any duties of a financial or machinery operator nature.

I finally note that by your sponsor and his Employers own admission that this a small family company it would therefore be reasonable to expect that your sponsor and his employer would have a good knowledge of peoples roles within the company. Your sponsor confirms that his father ls the employer.


I am satisfied that the statements you have made and documents you have provtded are false and your sponsors stated employment is non-genuine because of the discrepancies in roles, duties and responsibilities. I therefore refuse your application under paragraph EC-P.1.1(c) of Appendix FM of the immigration Rules (S-EC.2.2(a))


Eligibility
Under paragraph EC-P.1.1(d) you do not meet all of the eligibility requirements of Section E-ECP of Appendix FM for the following reasons:


Eligibility relationship requirements
You meet the eligibility relationship requirement of paragraphs E-ECP.2.2 to 2.10.

Eligibility Financial requirement
You do not meet the eligibility financial requirement of paragraphs ECP.3.1 to 3.4.


You have stated in your visa Application Form that you meet the financial requirement through your sponsors‘s salaried employment and also cash savings. As detailed above you have stated that your sponsor is employed with xxxxxxxLtd on a salary of £13436.28. Both your sponsor and his employer have confirmed this is a family owned business. You have also stated that the savings held are from this stated employment, which is deposited into NatWest account xxxxxxx. As I am satisfied this employment is non-genuine(see above), I cannot be satisfied by the source of your sponsee cash saving funds.
I further note that even if your Sponsors employment was to be accepted as claimed, it has been established that your sponsor is working for his parents. I am satisfied this meets the specified type of limited company as detailed in Appenaix FM-SE paragraph, 9(a), and you are required to supply full self employment documents as per paragraph 9(b)

The rules state the following-


The specified type of limited company is one in which:
Paragraph 9 explained
........
..........
........
......

[CR001]

Unclear why you chose to complicate things by adding employment when you met the requirements from savings, unless you have not held the savings for 6 months.

Never good when you get a refusal where ho believes your documents and claimed circumstances are false. It creates even more scrutiny with future applications.

[seagul]

Unless you find a new paye job giving sufficient income only then you can re-apply but after 6 months. Because your cash savings also won't be accepted in future applications too.

[Y123m]

Thanks for the replies.
If i can not apply only with savings then the two options i have is to appeal or to reapply with income/savings and provide the documents under paragraph 9. Which option do you think is best?

If i apply again, do i need to submit 6 months payslips or 12 months?

[seagul]

To clear that allegations of ingenuine employment and cash savings the appeal might take at least 1-2 years but if you find a suitable job then simply after 6 months can re-apply with 6 months of payslips & bank statements.

[Y123m]

Thanks for the replies.
If i can not apply only with savings then the two options i have is to appeal or to reapply with income/savings and provide the documents under paragraph 9. Which option do you think is best?

If i apply again, do i need to submit 6 months payslips or 12 months?

Can i not stay with the same employer and submit all the documents under paragraph 9? Do i have to submit 6 months months statements or 12?

[seagul]

Thanks for the replies.
If i can not apply only with savings then the two options i have is to appeal or to reapply with income/savings and provide the documents under paragraph 9. Which option do you think is best?

If i apply again, do i need to submit 6 months payslips or 12 months?

Can i not stay with the same employer and submit all the documents under paragraph 9? Do i have to submit 6 months months statements or 12?

If you still want to stay with same employer which is your own family and or using same cash savings then better to appeal to clear these allegations.

[Y123m]

I have spoken to a few immigration solicitors and they have said that an appeal would be successful but have added it could take up to two years.
They have also said that i can reapply and provide the documents under paragraph 9b and also give detailed evidence that my job is genuine.
I have arranged a few more appointments over the coming days to see more solicitors, before i take the final decision.

[Y123m]

Thanks for the replies.
If i can not apply only with savings then the two options i have is to appeal or to reapply with income/savings and provide the documents under paragraph 9. Which option do you think is best?

If i apply again, do i need to submit 6 months payslips or 12 months?

Can i not stay with the same employer and submit all the documents under paragraph 9? Do i have to submit 6 months months statements or 12?

If you still want to stay with same employer which is your own family and or using same cash savings then better to appeal to clear these allegations.

Would it be possible to re-apply through savings and also provide documents under 9b and describe my job role? This would be to clarify the points of refusal.
Also, please can someone tell me if i need to provide 6 or 12 months statements if i rely on income AND savings.
I have also been told that if i work for specified limited company then i can only rely on income. Is this true?
All help will be most appreciated.

[seagul]

Thanks for the replies.
If i can not apply only with savings then the two options i have is to appeal or to reapply with income/savings and provide the documents under paragraph 9. Which option do you think is best?

If i apply again, do i need to submit 6 months payslips or 12 months?

Can i not stay with the same employer and submit all the documents under paragraph 9? Do i have to submit 6 months months statements or 12?

If you still want to stay with same employer which is your own family and or using same cash savings then better to appeal to clear these allegations.

Would it be possible to re-apply through savings and also provide documents under 9b and describe my job role? This would be to clarify the points of refusal.
Also, please can someone tell me if i need to provide 6 or 12 months statements if i rely on income AND savings.
I have also been told that if i work for specified limited company then i can only rely on income. Is this true?
All help will be most appreciated.

I will be risky to use again the same employer (your family member) since the HO has already pronounced them ingenuine.

[Y123m]

If i were to appeal this decision by submitting all the documents they ask for and clarify my job role in detail, will the home office review the decision and if so how long do they take to review.
Also, if it was refused again at the review stage then would it be possible to withdraw the appeal?

[seagul]

If i were to appeal this decision by submitting all the documents they ask for and clarify my job role in detail, will the home office review the decision and if so how long do they take to review.
Also, if it was refused again at the review stage then would it be possible to withdraw the appeal?

If you are so stubborn for not changing the employer then better to appeal with no guarantee of success or any timeframe. Yes you can withdraw appeal later to re-apply again but with new employer

[Y123m]

If i were to appeal this decision by submitting all the documents they ask for and clarify my job role in detail, will the home office review the decision and if so how long do they take to review.
Also, if it was refused again at the review stage then would it be possible to withdraw the appeal?

If you are so stubborn for not changing the employer then better to appeal with no guarantee of success or any timeframe. Yes you can withdraw appeal later to re-apply again but with new employer

Its nothing to be with being stubborn or not. You have to understand its not easy for everyone to change their job.

The decision of the home office is unlawful. They can’t just claim my job is not genuine, when in fact my employment is 100% genuine. All the accounts of the business is also 100% genuine. So who are the home office to say my job is not genuine. Just because they have falsely claimed my job is not genuine, then why should i change my job.

I stand a very good chance in-front of a judge who knows the law unlike the people who assess applications at UKVI. I can give them 30+ years of accounts to show the business is genuine, and can give them 7 years of evidence of my employment.
The only thing is the time it takes for appeal so i asked, if the home office review the decision before going to court and how long it takes?

The interviewer asked me what my job role was, which I answered “sales rep”. She then asked my what i did as part of my job, to which I answered “going to shops and selling products”.

She then called my employer (father) and asked about my job role. My father also confirmed sales rep. She then asked about duties and responsibilities i had. My father answered my responsibilities was to sell products to customers and speak to them. Also my duties was to collect money and match the sales book. Now how does that make me a financial admin!!! Obviously when i sell something i obtain money in return. Do they expect me to sell for free!!!???

I will clarify in detail all this when i appeal or reapply.

I have nothing to hide.