Court rules "continuous residence" means you CANNOT LEAVE IRELAND AT ALL for year before application

[aneelrahim]

Screenshot_2019-10-14 Citizenship Applications.png (27.25 KiB) Viewed 3515 times

As per last week, Total 19,172 decision pending 2016 - 2019
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/qu ... 10-10/141/

[markem]

If they don't let you go anywhere one year prior to lodging the application, what else would you call it?

The Minister has said he does want people to be able to travel and is prepared to change the law to allow this.

You cannot let them own you and stop you from travelling around the world, just for the sake of citizenship.

No one is being stopped from travelling.

I agree. There were already a lot of angry comments there. I like that the issue receives coverage by the media though.

It is great that articles are being written by a wide range of journalists and publications. Unfortunate about that prison comment - regardless of your opinion on it - might distract from the actual issue.

[littlerr]

The prison comment is untrue, stupid and simply gives far-right another target to attack how ungraceful some immigrants are. Nobody is being stopped for travelling abroad. Nobody in the government is advising anybody not to travel abroad.
As a matter of fact, even if you don't travel abroad at all, your application will still be put on hold, until this legal battle is over.

[Nre123]

Screenshot_2019-10-14 Citizenship Applications.png



As per last week, Total 19,172 decision pending 2016 - 2019
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/qu ... 10-10/141/

huge backlog...this will make processing times of 2-3 years new norm now

[Alixlboy]

If they don't let you go anywhere one year prior to lodging the application, what else would you call it?

The Minister has said he does want people to be able to travel and is prepared to change the law to allow this.

You cannot let them own you and stop you from travelling around the world, just for the sake of citizenship.

No one is being stopped from travelling.

I agree. There were already a lot of angry comments there. I like that the issue receives coverage by the media though.

It is great that articles are being written by a wide range of journalists and publications. Unfortunate about that prison comment - regardless of your opinion on it - might distract from the actual issue.

All I must say is we need to stop being willfully oblivious about the things that are going on in this country.

[Alixlboy]

Anyone who is happy about the unjustifiable delays from INIS either doesnt have an application with the department, or if they have one, they must be ready and willing to face the same delays as they are okay with them. Why are they even visiting the immigration blogs? They must relax for a couple of years until their application eventually gets approved.
What s wrong is wrong.
People being frustrated because of these delays is a normal and natural thing and not something stupid.
You need to be in the same situation to be able to feel someone s pain.
I think approving applications for some people and not doing the same for others and that too without any explanation or justification is frustrating and people have the right to be frustrated.

[botabo]

I read on the news that also the ceremony in December has been cancelled.
There are 20,000+ applications in standby.
Does anybody feel like participating on a strike or a demostration?

[Phaedra]

I am sure some must be trolling on this thread because the infamous prison comment is an obvious use of hyperbole to express frustration.

I think some calm, legal and peaceful protests are an excellent way to draw attention to the issue which is growing exceedingly hopeless, might even draw some attention to what is happening and help educate some Irish who might otherwise be unaware.

[joshi]

i do think so

[dk2019]

I agree and I am in! It cant get worse than already is..

[Smallm1983]

With regards to the wait times, they are definitely manipulating data. INIS claimed in an article recently ‘the Minister says average processing from receipt to decision was 6.7 months in 2016, 7.2 months in 2017 and 6.5 months in 2018.’ Just looking at the figures they released, there are still well over half the applications from 2018 pending for more than a year. So they are simply only averaging those applications that they finished. They are not including the wait times for the 20,000 still waiting as their applications aren’t complete yet. Someone needs to hold them to account for bringing accurate figures to the public. They are misleading with false figures.

[Ali112]

Folks I can bet you all ! They do manipulating the data as it’s hard to believe an average of 6.7 months
Those who wish to protest as per your rights get some NGO involve like immigrants council of Ireland or migrant right center as they have big following and more numbers more pressure !!
I am in it though I am naturalized but I still feel pain of many and I am also waiting for my son who technically should get passport directly as he was born here but due to incomplete doc I was force to apply minor naturalization form 9 (naturalized parents )
I also believe minor application shouldn’t be impacted with this decision as many law doesn’t apply to minor

[littlerr]

I also believe minor application shouldn’t be impacted with this decision as many law doesn’t apply to minor

They used the same wording "continuous residency" for minors, so unfortunately it is probably going to be delayed as well.
As to why the court of appeal wants to reserve the judgement, I have no clue.

[Omad24]

All we can do is hope this matter gets resolved by the end of the month. It really is unfortunate that thousands of people are in limbo because of this.

[Ali112]

I also believe minor application shouldn’t be impacted with this decision as many law doesn’t apply to minor

They used the same wording "continuous residency" for minors, so unfortunately it is probably going to be delayed as well.
As to why the court of appeal wants to reserve the judgement, I have no clue.

No one has any clue one of my good friend linked with the legal system here in Ireland knows things inside out and his predictions and whatever he said become true:
He said this is planned by courts and minister due to Brexit as they wanted to know what will be the final outcome as if you read the news it’s clear minister got the permission from parliament to bring in new legislation and how come it’s not been done ??
There were many many cases in the past why just not the high court judge realized this??

There is a lot of red tape here and I can bet you they will do nothing until brexit is finalized!

I know many might say it’s previlaged .... yes it is but people are earning that previlage by living loyally, paying tax, showing their sincerity and seriousness to live in the state and most people have invested their money , life as some came here on very young age lived like 15 years 20 years made family and now those genuine people been treated as ....

In this 21 century there is still rule like discretion power to ministry as if he / she doesn’t like someone may get rejected as well and no one can challenge and court can only recommend but can’t change the decision which may be made by some civil servent in naturalizations department acting on behalf of minister ! We hear this in 3 world countries but sadly it’s present in some developed countries like Ireland and I am sure some others too

[littlerr]

If that were to be true, at least thankfully the UK and the EU have agreed on a new deal today. Whether it will pass the UK parliament or not, I have my doubts there...

[Lily3]

And why they are holding on decisions for those applicants who didn’t go out not even a single day prior to the submission of application?
Whenever they are asked about the delay they always say that there is a huge backlog but surprisingly they already approved few applications who applied in 2019 and same as 2018. If there is so much backlog why not give the preference to the ones who are waiting since 2016 and 2017 first? Even though my application is done since Sept 2018 but they never approved my application without any reason. I came to know through FOI on my application.
It’s frustrating process for us but some ppl get their approval within 4-6 months so they won’t understand the feeling until they go through by themselves.

[Smallm1983]

I believe there are huge problems with the Naturalisation office and the staff. They claim to be processing applications in time order this isn’t the case. Our cases are assigned to one case worker, and if your worker is slow then too bad. I also think there is a vindictive nature of some of the staff, where if you write in to ask what is happening with your application, or wrote to your TD they purposely delay it even longer. I have been told this by a former staff member in INIS in Tipperary.

Also, they are watching these boards and other social media, so I would be careful when you criticise them not to use any personally identifying info. They will delay your application unjustly if they can identify who’s making the complaint, and you have no legal rights to find out why your application is delayed. They are very petty and vindictive and we are all paying the price.

I have also been told the Minister has manufactured this case to hold everything up until after Brexit.

[markem]

No one has any clue one of my good friend linked with the legal system here in Ireland knows things inside out and his predictions and whatever he said become true:
He said this is planned by courts and minister due to Brexit as they wanted to know what will be the final outcome as...

Are you really suggesting that the Minister and Judiciary conspired to make the judgement in the Jones case because they didn't know when or how the UK would leave the EU? That seems far fetched, to say the least.

... if you read the news it’s clear minister got the permission from parliament to bring in new legislation and how come it’s not been done ??

No, this isn't quite right. The Minister has not sought permission from Parliament. He has sought permission from his Ministerial colleagues to draw up legislation. He will not bring the proposed legislation to the Dail as the case is still sub-judice.

Can I suggest you spend a few minutes reading this Wikipedia article on how the different branches of government work.

[markem]

And why they are holding on decisions for those applicants who didn’t go out not even a single day prior to the submission of application?

INIS doesn't know which applicants remained in Ireland for a full year. This information is not required on the application form. Yes, perhaps they could ask, but that would be a huge exercise to send 20,000 letters out to applicants and get responses, and process them. In all likelihood, this will be resolved through the courts before they could complete an exercise like that.

[Bealtaine]

Not being dumb or ignorant but what does citizenship by naturalization have to do with Brexit?
Jones didn’t have a part to play in this conspiracy theory, surely.
With over 20,000 applications and 61 people who go through the applications, it is rather shocking.
I’d be interested to know if anyone who applies via a solicitor gets naturalized faster. Statistics would be lovely but I doubt anyone here would have access to that.

[Stanina]

Minister says average processing from receipt to decision was 6.7 months in 2016, 7.2 months in 2017 and 6.5 months in 2018.’ Just looking at the figures they released, there are still well over half the applications from 2018 pending for more than a year. So they are simply only averaging those applications that they finished. They are not including the wait times for the 20,000 still waiting as their applications aren’t complete yet.

Yes, I agree. It is a rolling function then and maybe cause for slower processing. If didn't process application within 6-8 months, you can put it in the pile for few years and it will be in statistics back few years ago and you can show improvement

I have also been told the Minister has manufactured this case to hold everything up until after Brexit.

Do not see any logic why it can be related to the Brexit. I would suspect case can be initiated by Minister as the way to have clear guidelines for last year and ground to change the law.
It also gives excuse for the processing delay, as all is on hold due to court case.

[markem]

There is a lot of red tape here and I can bet you they will do nothing until brexit is finalized!

I have also been told the Minister has manufactured this case to hold everything up until after Brexit.

Do not see any logic why it can be related to the Brexit.

Not being dumb or ignorant but what does citizenship by naturalization have to do with Brexit?

It is nothing to do with Brexit.

I would suspect case can be initiated by Minister as the way to have clear guidelines for last year and ground to change the law. It also gives excuse for the processing delay, as all is on hold due to court case.

It did not originate with the Minister. Jones (probably encouraged by his lawyer, who I am sure loves the publicity for her business that this case is drawing) initiated the appeal. They think it is reasonable for someone to be out of the country for 97 days on holiday in the year before application.

[saleamcrown]

No bill next week also
Please no one tell me he wait the decision because the minester at 11/9 he said they will put the bill quickly to change the law why he wait what he want

[markem]

Please no one tell me he wait the decision because the minester at 11/9 he said they will put the bill quickly to change the law why he wait what he want

Because the case is sub judice and the court must be left to make its ruling. To interfere now would circumvent the Courts system and set a dangerous precedent.

Imagine if the law was changed right now. Then, next time any court ruling went against a Minister or department there would be a cry to just change the law. Courts are there to interpret the law and there is a well established mechanism for appealing a ruling.