EU1 treaty rights + general questions FEEDBACK PLEASE

[Dutoonkwa]

HI !!

I am an EU national living in Ireland and my wife is NON EU (love the labels). She joined me last june 2008. We registered with the Gardai and now wish to apply for EU treaty rights which we understand should be feasible due to the EU ruling of 25 july 2008.

We were told by Gardai we could apply for these rights after three months (September 2008). The EU treaty rights application is said to take 6 months. The Gardai told us my wife is not allowed to do anything but sit at home (for 3 + 6 months). Gardai also said she is not allowed to travel during this 9 months.

We would be greatful if you could share your experience on the following:

1. The EU Treaty Rights application is said to take 6 months. How realistic is this timeframe?

2. Any tips for what my wife can do but sit at home for nine months? (the thought of it is absolutely mad as she is highly educated with two BA and two MA's.)

3. Are we allowed to travel together (obviously getting the appropriate holidays visa's?)

4. We experienced Gardai/INIS officers saying different/opposite things. As such all other tips are welcome. If anything in our story seems worth looking into please tell us.

Thanks for you help !

Dutoonkwa

[ca.funke]

Hi Dutoonkwa and welcome to this forum!

We were told by Gardai we could apply for these rights after three months (September 2008).

The 3-month-rule you mention is discussed here. This will be the next thing wiped out by either the commission or the ECJ, but for now I guess you are screwed.

The EU treaty rights application is said to take 6 months. The Gardai told us my wife is not allowed to do anything but sit at home (for 3 + 6 months). Gardai also said she is not allowed to travel during this 9 months.

Legally, this is not the case. In reality it may be that you are screwed for now.

My approach would be:

It is vitally important that you keep a written record of GNIB/DoJ's refusal to accept your application, as this is ILLEGAL. (see cited thread)

It is equally vital to keep written proof that your wife is denied her right to work, this is also ILLEGAL.

What they should usually do is take your application and issue you with a "receipt of application". This "receipt of application" should usually give you all rights, as if your case had been approved. (It is not your fault that it is not handled immediately) Upon final approval/denial your rights are then either confirmed through an EU-4-Fam-card, or you should receive the grounds on which your application has been refused.

As GNIB/DoJ are illegally preventing your partner from working, it should be easy to get compensation for this through the courts, but of course this will take time and does not change the current messy situation you are in.

As for the impossibility to travel: You should, IMHO, be able to claim damages for illegal restraint.

GNIB/DoJ continue to ignore their obligations, even after they just received a kick in the *** by the ECJ!

Being German myself (I know Germany has downsides too, please refrain from comments along the line of "if it's so nice there, go back"), I can say that in Germany 2004/38/EC is handled as follows:

• You report to the local foreigners'-office after arrival.
• You present all necessary papers according to 2004/38/EC (=both passports, marriage-certificate)
• they issue you with an EU-4-Fam-card equivalent (=that is, immediately!)
• matter solved

If there's a will - there's a way.
Ireland doesn't want to, so we have to (unnecessarily) fight.

[Ben]

I couldn't have put it better myself, ca.funke!

Dutoonkwa, your wife has the same rights as you do in Ireland. She acquired these rights the day she joined you in Ireland, as your spouse. She can work in any job, and she can travel. Why would she not be allowed to travel? Is she a criminal?

Unfortunately, the GNIB officer at your local Garda station is very mis-informed. But then, so are the GNIB in Dublin, who tell the local officers what to do. As ca.funke said, keep any record of your wife's prohibition of employment. You will need this to sue the Department of Justice, later.

Since your wife joined you in Ireland in June 2008, an application for a Residence Card, using form EU1, will (wrongfully) not be accepted by the DoJ until September 2008 (three months after her arrival). The DoJ are then allowed six months to process the application, and provide a decision.

But during these nine months, your wife's rights of residence and employment still exist. Such rights derive from her marriage to you, not from the issuance of a Residence Card (which is merely a document used to evidence such rights, which she already has).

Familiarise yourself with European Directive 2004/38/EC, which details your rights, and your family members' rights.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:EN:PDF

[Dutoonkwa]

Thanks for the answer.

In june when she arrived on Dublin airport we recieved a card telling us to go to Burgh Quay only, not any local GNIB/Gardai officer.

The info we got was given to us by two GNIB officers in Dublin on two seperate visits. They said we registered with them (they put our name and date of visit in the computer).

The Dublin officer did not give us any paperwork or proof. The only thing that happened was my wife's pasport got stamped (valid until September), it says:

"permitted to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter employment. does not engage inany business or profession and does not remain later than..."

QUESTION 1: do we also have to register with a local GNIB officer?

QUESTION 2: this stamp is this equal to registration? OR do we have to
get a written proof

QUESTION 3: is it possible for my wife to get a PPS number during the initial 3 months OR can we get after we applied for the EU treaty rights?

QUESTION 4: We hear a lot of talk about a GNIB card. Can anyone explain to us what it is, as we have not recieved any paperwork as of yet. And if it is needed how do we get it?

Again Thanks

Dutoonkwa


ps. my wife says that she doesnt have 2 BA's but one BA and one LLB. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Ben]

..my wife's pasport got stamped (valid until September), it says:

"permitted to remain in Ireland on conditions that the holder does not enter employment. does not engage inany business or profession and does not remain later than..."

The European Commission have been made aware of this practice by the Irish authorities, and are taking action accordingly. Member States cannot attempt to impose prohibitions which restrict the rights that family members hold, in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC. Your wife is entitled to work.

QUESTION 1: do we also have to register with a local GNIB officer?

In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, no registration is required for the first 3 months. After this time, your wife is required to apply for a Residence Card, using form EU1, to the EU Treaty Rights section of the Department of Justice, Equality & Law Reform, 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2. Your wife is to receive a decision on the application within 6 months from submission. Until then, should your wife wish to, she should report to the local GNIB office in person (13/14 Burgh Quay, if you live in Dublin, main Garda station in your town/city if you live elsewhere). The GNIB officer will endorse her passport under Stamp 3 conditions, initially for 3 months (before submitting the EU1 application), then a further 6 months (during processing of the EU1 application). This will aid your wife in traveling in and out of Ireland, should she wish to, until the time when she's in possession of a Residence Card. Ignore the part about no employment.

QUESTION 2: this stamp is this equal to registration? OR do we have to get a written proof

If you are referring to the passport stamp that the GNIB give to your wife (as per my message above), then that is equal to registration.

QUESTION 3: is it possible for my wife to get a PPS number during the initial 3 months OR can we get after we applied for the EU treaty rights?

She could have got a PPS number yesterday (as I'm sure you know, a PPS number will be required by her employer ASAP). The social will give a PPS number to anyone with (any) passport and proof of address (or proof of your address plus a note from you confirming that your wife is living with you). ESB bill would do fine.

QUESTION 4: We hear a lot of talk about a GNIB card. Can anyone explain to us what it is, as we have not recieved any paperwork as of yet. And if it is needed how do we get it?

Your wife will get a "Stamp 4 EUFam" Residence Card (GNIB card), once her EU1 application has been approved.

[ca.funke]

In accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, no registration is required for the first 3 months.

About this one detail: IMO 2004/38/EC asks foreigners to apply for the residence-card before 3 months have elapsed. (Article 9(2))

This is the 3-month-mess, GNIB/DoJ currently illegally use to deter applications, as already discussed as above...

Just wanted to ensure this is not taken as if there was no need to apply. (Well, according to the illegal Irish transposition there isn't, but that'll be fixed soon...)

[Dutoonkwa]

Dear benifa and ca.funke, thanks for the tips, we now see why you are
a Senior Member and a Member of Standing respectively.

We are extremely grateful and you have taken away a lot of uncertainty and given a lot of clarity. Thank you very very very much !!!

We are not quite sure what your stories are but we believe you must have been as "surprised" about these rules and regulations. What surprises us most is the different stories people from the Justice department have regarding the same topic. the funniest one being that my wife's visa expires in september and then we have to apply. In otherwords she has no status. What kind of logic is that, anyway.

One lawyer actually said we should gather info and bring a lawsuit against the Irish government for lost income after this is all over. I m not ure about it but I can see his point of view.

Thanks for now.. maybe we have more questions later !!

Dutoonkwa

[archigabe]

I am glad this nightmare is over for a lot of people including this couple...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/let ... 12327.html