Maternity benefit and impact on citizenship application

[strongbow]

Hi,
Just wanted to see if a person applies for maternity benefit (form MB10 on welfare.ie website) and later on applies for Irish citizenship whether there is an impact on the citizenship decision. Main reason for asking this is that we know that if a person applies for the dole then that person's application for citizenship will be turned down due to the reason of depending on state benefit---wanted to see if the same applies when applying for maternity benefit.
If anyone knows more on this please let us know.
Cheers.
Strongbow.

[knapps]

no it won't have any impect on your application by law if ur wife is an eu citizen or yourself the state treats it the same way pregnant mother as it does to others.....you can try www.immigrationcouncil.ie if u want

[walrusgumble]

Hi,
Just wanted to see if a person applies for maternity benefit (form MB10 on welfare.ie website) and later on applies for Irish citizenship whether there is an impact on the citizenship decision. Main reason for asking this is that we know that if a person applies for the dole then that person's application for citizenship will be turned down due to the reason of depending on state benefit---wanted to see if the same applies when applying for maternity benefit.
If anyone knows more on this please let us know.
Cheers.
Strongbow.

you should be ok, everyone like yourself who is working is entitled to benefits such as child allowance and maternity benefit and any other employment benefit / relief (bar dole) to "punish" someone for taking something like maternity benefit would frustrate and disencourage non eea / eu workers from coming to ireland and work when there skills are badly needed. when an non eea / eu person is legally working in ireland, regardless of their nationality, they are still entitled to the same employment rights and benfits as the rest of the work force, so long as they met the required continous period of employment - ie same requirement for everyone else)

(as for eu citizens, to "punish" would likely be discrimination on basis of nationality which is a big no no in european law)

You should be grand

maternity benefit could not and should not be deemed as State benefit in the strictist sense as it is available to all irish people regardless of their income.

[scrudu]

you should be ok, everyone like yourself who is working is entitled to benefits such as child allowance and maternity benefit and any other employment benefit / relief (bar dole) to "punish" someone for taking something like maternity benefit would frustrate and disencourage non eea / eu workers from coming to ireland and work when there skills are badly needed. when an non eea / eu person is legally working in ireland, regardless of their nationality, they are still entitled to the same employment rights and benfits as the rest of the work force, so long as they met the required continous period of employment - ie same requirement for everyone else)

Strongbow is right to ask this question, and I don't know the truth of the answer. Unfortunately what WalrusGrumble says is at least partially untrue. People have been denied citizenship on the grounds that they were on the dole for a period of time during their residency. Read this MCRC publication: http://www.mrci.ie/publications/documen ... ng2008.pdf

Case Study: Accessing social protection may affect citizenship claims

The MRCI recently encountered a situation whereby a non-EU national who arrived in 1999 on a work permit applied for citizenship in 2004, when he had been five years in the State. In 2007 he received a response from the Citizenship Division stating that the Minister for Justice had decided not to grant him a certificate of naturalization on the basis that he had availed of state support for a short period in the past.

The refusal letter stated that the Minister has adopted a general policy that he will normally require applicants for naturalisation to show that they are can support themselves and any family members while residing in the State, and that they are in a position to continue that support into the future. The Minister is generally satisfied if an applicant has not accessed State support in the three years before the application or after, and they have supported themselves independently in that period. In making the decision, the Minister for Justice had exercised his absolute discretion, and there is no appeals process under current legislation.

In this case the migrant worker had accessed Job Seeker’s Benefit and Rent Allowance for a six month period and accessed two emergency Back to School Allowance payments. He had suffered workplace exploitation and was forced to leave his employment and look for a new job.

A judicial review of the Minister’s decision in this case has been lodged, on the basis that the manner in which the decision to refuse citizenship was reached appears to have lacked fair procedures, in that the migrant worker in question had no knowledge of the general policy of the Minister and the method by which self-sufficiency is assessed. He was not notified that this policy existed or given an opportunity to address it. In addition, the information leaflet on applying for citizenship makes no mention of self-sufficiency as a condition for citizenship, or of how this will be measured.

In the view of the MRCI, if a person pays social insurance contributions, they should be able to access social protection when it is required, without being penalised in the form of being refused long term residency or citizenship. In the recently-published Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill 2008, Section 36 states that if you have availed of public services during your five years residency, you may not be entitled to claim Long Term Residency. MRCI considers that access to pathways to permanent residency should not be made dependent on such a requirement as it has the potential to have a very negative impact on migrant workers and their families who may experience workplace exploitation, lose their job or find themselves in a vulnerable position.

[strongbow]

Hi,
Just to clarify--both myself and my wife are non-EU but have been legally resident for a good bit now..I've been here 7.5 years on work visa while my wife has been here for 4 years on a work permit..I just want to check if applying for maternity benefit would jeopardise any chance of my citizenship application which is currently in process as well as my wife's when she applies next year..But as far as I know maternity benefits are similar to tax credits/rent relief etc which nearly everyone claims(EU or non-EU)...but just wanted to confirm this.

[scrudu]

Strongbow: prior to reading this report from MRCI I wouldn't have had so much as a doubt that your wife receiving Maternity Benefit would jeopardise her chances for citizenship. Anyone who works and pays taxes and PRSI is entitled to access Social Benefits such as Maternity Benefit, Child Allowance, JobSeeker Benefit, Jobseeker Allowance etc. This is what we contribute to the PRSI fund for.

Anyone who is legally resident and employed (not self employed) is expected to contribute to this fund and pending the initial 2 year contribution period passing, anyone EU or not is entitled to social benefits.

I am very surprised (and disgusted) that the DoJ took the stance that a resident who accessed these funds would be denied citizenship on this basis. I imagine Maternity Benefit will be treated differently to Jobseekers Benefit, but who knows. I'd suggest a call to MRCI, the Immigration Council and of course the DoJ to hear their side. That said, unless you get it in writing from the DoJ I wouldn't hold too much weight on what they say!

[walrusgumble]

you should be ok, everyone like yourself who is working is entitled to benefits such as child allowance and maternity benefit and any other employment benefit / relief (bar dole) to "punish" someone for taking something like maternity benefit would frustrate and disencourage non eea / eu workers from coming to ireland and work when there skills are badly needed. when an non eea / eu person is legally working in ireland, regardless of their nationality, they are still entitled to the same employment rights and benfits as the rest of the work force, so long as they met the required continous period of employment - ie same requirement for everyone else)

Strongbow is right to ask this question, and I don't know the truth of the answer. Unfortunately what WalrusGrumble says is at least partially untrue. People have been denied citizenship on the grounds that they were on the dole for a period of time during their residency. Read this MCRC publication: http://www.mrci.ie/publications/documen ... ng2008.pdf

Case Study: Accessing social protection may affect citizenship claims

The MRCI recently encountered a situation whereby a non-EU national who arrived in 1999 on a work permit applied for citizenship in 2004, when he had been five years in the State. In 2007 he received a response from the Citizenship Division stating that the Minister for Justice had decided not to grant him a certificate of naturalization on the basis that he had availed of state support for a short period in the past.

The refusal letter stated that the Minister has adopted a general policy that he will normally require applicants for naturalisation to show that they are can support themselves and any family members while residing in the State, and that they are in a position to continue that support into the future. The Minister is generally satisfied if an applicant has not accessed State support in the three years before the application or after, and they have supported themselves independently in that period. In making the decision, the Minister for Justice had exercised his absolute discretion, and there is no appeals process under current legislation.

In this case the migrant worker had accessed Job Seeker’s Benefit and Rent Allowance for a six month period and accessed two emergency Back to School Allowance payments. He had suffered workplace exploitation and was forced to leave his employment and look for a new job.

A judicial review of the Minister’s decision in this case has been lodged, on the basis that the manner in which the decision to refuse citizenship was reached appears to have lacked fair procedures, in that the migrant worker in question had no knowledge of the general policy of the Minister and the method by which self-sufficiency is assessed. He was not notified that this policy existed or given an opportunity to address it. In addition, the information leaflet on applying for citizenship makes no mention of self-sufficiency as a condition for citizenship, or of how this will be measured.

In the view of the MRCI, if a person pays social insurance contributions, they should be able to access social protection when it is required, without being penalised in the form of being refused long term residency or citizenship. In the recently-published Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill 2008, Section 36 states that if you have availed of public services during your five years residency, you may not be entitled to claim Long Term Residency. MRCI considers that access to pathways to permanent residency should not be made dependent on such a requirement as it has the potential to have a very negative impact on migrant workers and their families who may experience workplace exploitation, lose their job or find themselves in a vulnerable position.

So you consider child allowance and maternity benfit state resources? you do know the difference between these benfits and the dole. i would suggest to the OP to speak to someone in the MCRI and the Immigration Council

[scrudu]

So you consider child allowance and maternity benfit state resources? you do know the difference between these benefits and the dole.

I'm not sure what you mean by "do I consider them State resources". As Maternity Benefit & JobSeekers Benefit are paid from the PRSI fund to those who contribued to the PRSI fund, I think that those who contributed are entitled to avail of benefits without recrimination. I don't see the difference or why either would constitute for a refusal of citizenship application.

Maternity Benefit is paid to employed or self employed mothers. Child Benefit is paid to anyone with a child. JobSeekers benefit is paid to those who contributed PRSI and who are currently enemployed. JobSeekers allowance is paid to those who are not entitled to JobSeekers Benefit. Am I missing something?

[ashimashi]

So you consider child allowance and maternity benfit state resources? you do know the difference between these benefits and the dole.

I'm not sure what you mean by "do I consider them State resources". As Maternity Benefit & JobSeekers Benefit are paid from the PRSI fund to those who contribued to the PRSI fund, I think that those who contributed are entitled to avail of benefits without recrimination. I don't see the difference or why either would constitute for a refusal of citizenship application.

Maternity Benefit is paid to employed or self employed mothers. Child Benefit is paid to anyone with a child. JobSeekers benefit is paid to those who contributed PRSI and who are currently enemployed. JobSeekers allowance is paid to those who are not entitled to JobSeekers Benefit. Am I missing something?

While I agree that access to anything that is a legal entitlement should not be counted as a barrier to citizenship, I think walrus is right in this case.

Please note that this applicant received RENT ALLOWANCE as well which is not PRSI related and to me counts as state support. So lets not lose the perspective in our dislike of the way things are done in DoJ...

[walrusgumble]

So you consider child allowance and maternity benfit state resources? you do know the difference between these benefits and the dole.

I'm not sure what you mean by "do I consider them State resources". As Maternity Benefit & JobSeekers Benefit are paid from the PRSI fund to those who contribued to the PRSI fund, I think that those who contributed are entitled to avail of benefits without recrimination. I don't see the difference or why either would constitute for a refusal of citizenship application.

Maternity Benefit is paid to employed or self employed mothers. Child Benefit is paid to anyone with a child. JobSeekers benefit is paid to those who contributed PRSI and who are currently enemployed. JobSeekers allowance is paid to those who are not entitled to JobSeekers Benefit. Am I missing something?

i am really sorry if i sounded a bit full on,

what i meant was maternity benefit is available to all, and one should not be seen as scabbing off the state (a bit strong) or even relying on it to live, even the taoiseach if he had young kids would be entitled to it. I am aware of a person similar the one who went to the MCRI. One would argue that the back to school benefit would not or should not be considered the type of benefit that makes one look like relying on state resources. although the the MCRI one, he or she did rely on unemployment benefit for a very short time and despite having trouble with boss (through no fault of his / her own) still got refused.

As you are aware, a eu citizen who exercises their rights in a host country must register after 3 months if they wish to stay longer. if one was to look at european case law, in areas which defined what a "worker" was and there rights while in host countries, they are required to be of economical value (unless retired and have enough insurance and dosh etc) and not rely on state resources but are also entitled to take most benefits as any other host citizen (rightly so). point is that it would not go agaisnt them if they take eg maternity and other benefits. alas eu citizens are different to non eu.

anyway its not like you were disagreeing with right to avail of certain benefits without recrimination