Citizenship for grandmother, father and me

[Ajb660]

Hi all,

I expect the answer to this will probably be a “no”, but I thought I would try in case there are some exceptions! From my reading of Irish nationality law I think I am correct in thinking my grandmother would be eligible for Irish nationality on this basis:

Grandmother’s grandfather: born Galway 1852, moved to London in 1871
Grandmother’s mother: born London 1890
Grandmother: born 1929

On this basis I imagined my grandmother would be eligible. However, what I want to know is when the “registration on Foreign Births register” came into effect. Wikipedia states:

“Due to legislative changes introduced in 1986, the Irish citizenship of those individuals requiring registration, dates from registration and not from birth, for citizenship registered on or after 1 January 1987.[38] Citizenship by registration had previously been back-dated to birth.”

Would that mean on that basis that anyone born before 1987 would have automatically received Irish citizenship as well without registration in foreign births register?

My grandmothers son was born 1955 and I was born 1990, both in the UK, so I am wondering if my father would “automatically qualify” without registration and therefore I could also apply on that basis by registering with foreign birth register?

If someone can offer up any explanations that would be great, although I suspect only my grandmother would qualify in this situation, if even her. Thanks!

[BrexitEscapee]

Would that mean on that basis that anyone born before 1987 would have automatically received Irish citizenship as well without registration in foreign births register?

My grandmothers son was born 1955 and I was born 1990, both in the UK, so I am wondering if my father would “automatically qualify” without registration and therefore I could also apply on that basis by registering with foreign birth register?

If someone can offer up any explanations that would be great, although I suspect only my grandmother would qualify in this situation, if even her. Thanks!

Hopefully, someone will be able to provide an authoritative legal answer, however my interpretation of the law is: you won't be eligible for FBR unless your father also applied for it - either before you were born or before 1987. I'll explain why I think this:

The eligibility criteria, as explained on the DFA website, differentiates between an Irish citizen not born in Ireland and any person born in Ireland. ''Person born in Ireland' trumps 'Irish citizen not born in Ireland' because, as well as qualifying your children for citizenship (automatically), it also qualifies your grandchildren (if they apply via FBR.) 'Irish citizen not born in Ireland'' only qualifies your children for Irish citizenship if they actively apply via FBR. (Sorry you might have to read the above a few times - I couldn't find any clearer way of writing it.)

It sounds to me that the effect of that 1987 legislation is to change when an FBR applicant's citizenship starts from: pre-1987, citizenship via FBR was backdated to birth, whereas post-1987 citizenship only started from the date your FBR was successful. What has not changed is that you have always needed to actively apply for FBR in order to get it - it's not automatic. To make a 'chain' of Irish citizenship, every parent in that chain would need to have applied for FBR - and from 1987 onwards, they would have had to successfully claimed FBR prior to the birth of their children. This requirement to actively apply for FBR
in order to get citizenship is obvious when you think about it. If it wasn't a requirement, then anyone with an ancestor born in Ireland would qualify for FBR - that would be an absolutely vast number of people.

In your case, your grandmother would have automatically had Irish citizenship as her father was born in Ireland. However, you couldn't have used her to qualify for FBR as she wasn't born in Ireland. Instead, the only way you would be eligible for FBR is through your father - if he'd successfully applied for his Irish citizenship through FBR. And he'd need to have applied for FBR either (1) before you were born or (2) prior to that 1987 legislation coming in.

[BrexitEscapee]

Slight correction to my final paragraph above, as I obviously hadn't read your post properly! As your grandmother's mother wasn't born in Ireland, your grandmother would need to have gained Irish citizenship through her grandfather via FBR. Presumably, she didn't? In which case, the trail ends there. The only way the 'chain' could have worked is if she'd applied for FBR via her grandfather and your father had then applied via her either before 1987 or before you were born. Then you'd have been able to apply via your father i.e. as the child of an Irish citizen not born in Ireland.

[Ajb660]

That’s a shame - but I understand your post completely and suspect you are right! Thank you for the explanation and clarification, I appreciate it.

[Granista]

In a nutshell, your father would have to have been an Irish citizen before your birth in order for you to qualify as one. It can be carried on for ever as long as the preceding generation is properly registered before the next is born. If you break that chain, it's lost.