EEA FP - strange situation?

[paljack]

I have read through the first few pages of topics, and I think my situation is a bit different to many others I read here. So I thought I could post what is happening and see if I can get some advice.

Ok, so, I am american, my partner is polish. We met three years ago in poland, had a relationship, I lived with her for a few months. At that time she was married to her then estranged husband (he refused to sign divorce papers). We were unable to marry, and I didn't believe I could overstay my visa. So I left, incidentally for the uk for 6 months and then back to the us. We loved each other, we still do. I was unsure about marriage back then also, because she has a child (now 7yrs old) and I am young (I was 23 at the time). We kept up our relationship abroad. Obviously, not having had firm plans to marry, it was a loose relationship. We kept in contact via skype, because her written english was not good, and it's nice to see each other. Because of this, we don't really have written proof in the form of letters, cards, etc. What pictures we had were not kept because it did not cross our minds to keep them.

5 months ago I came to the uk... because she had moved here. She has gotten her divorce some months ago. I did not get a fiance visa before I came because we were not sure, so much time having passed, what things would be like together.

So her status in the uk: she has worked for more than a year, she qualifies as a registered person or whatever it is. She gets child tax working tax and child benefit. She is squatting and in line for a council house (she has to go into a hostel for a bit first).

We have been living together for the last five months. We love each other and wish to raise our family together. Our problems are: lack of supporting documents for our relationship, very little in the way of photos and letters. Friends and family members can sign affadavits for us. We cannot prove we have been living together the last five months as it has been in a squat (no utility bills etc).

We have been planning to get married in gibraltar, but I am REALLY lost as to what to do after that. I believe after research that we would be able to do that easily, but then there I am in spain, with my marriage certifitcate. What do I do to be able to return to the UK with my (future) wife?

If you wonder why it's important that we stay in the UK, her daughter is in school there and we would not want to remove her.

After some research I believe I need an EEA family permit but I am really unsure as to what is required to get that. After some initial research it seemed that I would only need to go to the british consulate in spain with my wife and marriage certificate.

Is that all?
Do I need the supporting documents proving our relationship is real?
Do I need bank statements?
Do I need a tenancy agreement, and a job offer?
Is living in a council house with her 'recourse to public funds'?

Any advice would be appreciated,
Regards
jack

[paljack]

OK. I have read more and clearly it is not nearly as easy as I had hoped. After reading the guidelines for VAF5 on ukvisas it seems I will need documents proving we're living together (although this seems to be impossible in a squat, will sworn statements work?) and all those supporting documents proving we've met before that are difficult for us to produce. Also it asks for where we intend to live... so I will need a tenenacy agreement? Anyone have any idea if a council house will work for this, if we apply as a couple? Confirmation of this would be helpful... especially if someone can confirm this isn't true, that I won't need these documents...

It asks for information about money she recieves from public funds, does working tax credit and child benefit and tax credit go here? Because from reading elsewhere I think those don't count as 'recourse to public funds'?

It also says I need to prove EEA residency? But I thought the whole point was that I am not EEA? Does this mean I have to leave the EEA to make the application? I don't understand.

it says: * If your family members are not already legally resident in an EEA State, they must also provide proof that they meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules for leave to enter the UK as if they were applying as your spouse, civil partner, unmarried or same-sex partner, child or other dependent relative and you were present and settled in the UK.

but I don't really know what that means.

[thsths]

OK. I have read more and clearly it is not nearly as easy as I had hoped.

No, it is not easy, but possible. The thing is: once you are married, and your wife is working in the UK, there are no further conditions for your visa. Yes, you would need to show that the marriage is genuine, but there are a number of ways to do this (e.g. documents from the time you spent together in Poland).

The biggest problem may be lack of funds, because you have to show that you can maintain yourself. Your wife can get benefits for herself and the child, but if she is eligible for additional benefits once you life here, than that could be a problem. It does not matter whether she takes them or not, the eligibility itself is an obstacle. And I guess she would qualify for a bigger council house with 3 people than with 2, so that is an issue.

You can always try and see how strict they are - interpretations are not always consistent in the different embassies. But you would improve your chances a lot by having a stable income or a job offer. I assume you are on a visitor visa, so you can go looking for a job now, but you are not allowed to start work.

Most of the paperwork for the VAF5 form is not strictly necessary, and a lot of it is proof of your financial means anyway.

Oh, and I think she has to register with the worker registration scheme (wrs), but I am not sure about the details. That is because her right to stay here is also conditional to having a job.

[paljack]

Sorry for the continuing monologue, but time is running out for me and so far just reading other topics on this board has proved more helpful than the different solicitors I have already spoke to on the matter. If any of you could give me some direct advice it would for sure be appreciated.

Time is running out because I have to leave in a few weeks to get married, and once I leave I'll have to apply for an EEA family permit to get let back in (to the uk). It's not so important to me to be in the uk, but her daughter is here so if we move back to poland, it would need to be forever, can't move a kid around too much. I think it would be better if she spent more time going to school here before we return, well her mother definitely thinks that.

So, after reading these next two things I believe I should pass the qualifications for an EEA FP with flying colors, but obviously the form you fill out asks for a lot more. I am honestly really worried about getting denied a family permit because I don't have all the details I am not required to have on the form. I beleve an appeal would win but then we would have to wait 4 months maybe?

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... t&start=20

and this:

Criteria for non-EEA national direct family members:

Holds a valid passport.

Has evidence that they are related as claimed e.g. genuine marriage certificate or birth certificate.

And in addition, the EEA national is residing in the UK in accordance with the EEA Regulations and the non-EEA national is joining them

If applying as a spouse or civil partner, there are no grounds to consider that the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience (see ECI Chapter 5).

There are no reasons of public policy, public security or public health to refuse entry to the UK (see ECI Chapter 8 ).

[paljack]

hey thsths, thanks for the reply! strangely I didn't see it until now. My wife-to-be is already registered under the work registration scheme, and I am already arranging employment when I return - that will not be a problem. It's the council house that I'm afraid of... although I have been reading in other threads that it is ok to rent from a housing association? Though I'm not entirely sure how I'll show proof of this to get the family permit. I guess a letter from the council or something saying I can stay with her in a housing association flat that we will pay the rent to?

I saw this posted by vinnie which does not look too good... http://www.ait.gov.uk/Public/Determinat ... px?Id=2057

What I'm worried about is proof the marriage is genuine. We are both in a particular position, we have very little in the way of supporting documents. We are looking for pictures of us in poland... but it's difficult. We both have travelled a good bit and simply aren't pack rats. I don't have any pictures of any point of my life actually. We have been taking pictures here, and I think her daughter's school can write a letter saying I drop off/pick up her daughter at school, also I'm named as being able to pick her daughter up from school by myself. But she squats so there is no registered mail coming to either of us here where we live together. And when we were in Poland, I mean I was a tourist who had just met this wonderful girl. I didn't ask to be put on her lease, I was happy to be able to share a bit of our lives together. I can get friends and family members to sign statements supporting our claims. But have very little paperwork, and we stupidly didn't know we'd need records of our relationship, so we communicated over skype (her reading/writing english is not really communicable).

I guess I'm just really worried. Her jackass ex-husband refuses to sign for a new passport for her daughter, so if I get denied a family permit and have to wait four months for an appeal, we don't know what to do. If we go to Poland, her daughter will have to leave her school for another which is doing something entirely different in a different language. And her and her mother won't be able to move back to the lives they've built in england until they can go through the courts to force her ex to sign the passport (to give you an idea, after three years of marriage (she was 17 when she married him) it took her FIVE years to get the divorce pushed through court).

But again, none of this is actually needed for an EEA family permit, unless I am mistaken. As I understand it, our passports and marriage certificates are all that's needed if they don't think it's a marriage of convenience, and I'm no threat to public order etc.

I have heard about some way to make a quicker appeal? Does anyone know about that? It would really reassure me if I knew I could appeal a bad decision based on ignorance of my wife-to-be's EU treaty rights quicker than 4 months.

OK. I have read more and clearly it is not nearly as easy as I had hoped.

No, it is not easy, but possible. The thing is: once you are married, and your wife is working in the UK, there are no further conditions for your visa. Yes, you would need to show that the marriage is genuine, but there are a number of ways to do this (e.g. documents from the time you spent together in Poland).

The biggest problem may be lack of funds, because you have to show that you can maintain yourself. Your wife can get benefits for herself and the child, but if she is eligible for additional benefits once you life here, than that could be a problem. It does not matter whether she takes them or not, the eligibility itself is an obstacle. And I guess she would qualify for a bigger council house with 3 people than with 2, so that is an issue.

You can always try and see how strict they are - interpretations are not always consistent in the different embassies. But you would improve your chances a lot by having a stable income or a job offer. I assume you are on a visitor visa, so you can go looking for a job now, but you are not allowed to start work.

Most of the paperwork for the VAF5 form is not strictly necessary, and a lot of it is proof of your financial means anyway.

Oh, and I think she has to register with the worker registration scheme (wrs), but I am not sure about the details. That is because her right to stay here is also conditional to having a job.

[thsths]

I am already arranging employment when I return - that will not be a problem.

In that case I think you have a really good chance of getting the permit. The council house should not be a problem as such, if it is obvious that you will not claim additional benefits otherwise, or ever fewer benefits.

Collect anything that you have to prove a genuine marriage. The legal situation is very complicated here, you have to prove it, but only if there is evidence that leads to a suspicion otherwise (which could be your recent marriage abroad, for example). If it comes to an appeal, that would take a while, unfortunately, but I agree that your chances are pretty good.

Of course your case is quite complex in a way, so be careful with advice given on forums (including this one). Getting a solicitor involved may be a good idea, but I agree that it needs to be a good one.

[paljack]

Hey thank you again or your reply/help!

OK so I have made a list here, I wonder what you all think of it:

Passport
Mariage certificate
Worker Registration Scheme / registration certificate

Evidence of marriage?
Photos
Emails
Blog Entry
Signed statements of friends and family
Letter from daughter’s school & afterschool club

Proof of employment
Accommodation? Housing association?

I put it in order of importance... the top bit is what is listed as required in the entry guidelines. The second bit is what I can get to show the mariage is genuine. But of the photos, only maybe one or two would be from three years ago (the rest from the last five months) and that's only depending on if we can find old friends with photos of us. Likewise the emails/blog entries will only be possible if I can remember the login details for the email address I used to use, if I can even remember the right address, and then combing through the inbox to see if I can find anything. But like I said her written/reading english is not very good so it would be minimal.

I am able to pick her daughter up from school alone (and do) and I'm sure the receptionist or the after school club will sign a statement saying I do so. That should prove useful. I'm kicking myself now for not taking more pictures... especially after I carried an 8ft christmas tree maybe two miles (damn that should be worth something

The proof of employment will be no problem for me to get, and I am looking into getting a letter from the council saying I can live in a housing association flat under my fiance's name, paying rent, though I have no idea if they can give me such a letter.

What if I attach previous court decisions which might be pertinent to my case? Do people do that?

By the way, does anyone know a good immigration solicitor in london that accepts legal aid cases? My fiance is eligable or free legal aid, and I am in contact with a solicitor, but he, and others I have spoken to, seems to be just as confused as I am... I have learned much more reading these forums than listening to him.

I am already arranging employment when I return - that will not be a problem.

In that case I think you have a really good chance of getting the permit. The council house should not be a problem as such, if it is obvious that you will not claim additional benefits otherwise, or ever fewer benefits.

Collect anything that you have to prove a genuine marriage. The legal situation is very complicated here, you have to prove it, but only if there is evidence that leads to a suspicion otherwise (which could be your recent marriage abroad, for example). If it comes to an appeal, that would take a while, unfortunately, but I agree that your chances are pretty good.

Of course your case is quite complex in a way, so be careful with advice given on forums (including this one). Getting a solicitor involved may be a good idea, but I agree that it needs to be a good one.