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Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Thu Jun 19, 2025 11:44 pm

jcasey wrote:
Thu Jun 19, 2025 1:22 pm
when the qualifying period for ILR was increased from 4 to 5 years in 2018 through Immigration Rules Appendix ECAA (affecting Turkish Businessperson visa holders), this change was not overturned by the courts. Based on the precedent set by that case, it is reasonable to assume that a similar change would also not be struck down.
I'd argue to the contrary and offer HSMP Forums vs the Home Secretary, where the Home Secretary (under the last Labour government) tried to increase the ILR period for HSMP migrants already in the UK from four years to five years and the E&W High Court stuck the increase down for people who were already in the UK under that specific visa.

I wonder if the changes to the Rules in the ECAA/Turkish Businessperson visa holders were because of the Brexit process that was going on at the time. Keep in mind that the ECAA (the Turkish European Communities Association Agreement) was imported into the UK under EU law and hence would have been impacted by Brexit.

I suspect that changes to wholly domestic Immigration Rules may be treated differently by the courts.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by Backer » Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:05 am

The qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) in the UK was generally raised from 4 to 5 years in April 2006 snd it applied to those already in the country.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by DarkA » Sat Jun 21, 2025 1:23 pm

I just found out that the Earned Citizenship scheme is not a new idea. It was originally proposed in 2009 and was planned to take effect in 2011, but it was reversed in 2010 when a new government came into power.

See for instance:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/c ... /42505.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7254926.stm
https://workpermit.com/news/uk-will-not ... p-20101108

So, I guess this government might just be speeding things up to get it implemented before September 2026, so that its impact on the statistics will be visible before the next election!

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by scorpionsagy » Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:15 pm

What is the latest on this topic please?

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by alterhase58 » Wed Nov 12, 2025 10:25 pm

No changes relating to to the proposals have been laid before parliament or have been enacted.
As far as I know it's still at the white paper/consultation stage.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by 777GE90 » Thu Nov 20, 2025 10:08 pm

scorpionsagy wrote:
Wed Nov 12, 2025 9:15 pm
What is the latest on this topic please?
One thing I did find was they suggested the changes would come into force from April 2026, after consultation, so I guess people who can get their applications in before then are probably fine at least and if there are any other transitional arrangements then it may extend further out after April 2026.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by kw7 » Fri Nov 21, 2025 12:05 pm

Just a thought. I'm wondering that the wording in the file 'A FAIRER PATHWAY TO SETTLEMENT' is historically rigorous and too strong.

I doubt that applicants who submitted ILR before the implementation of the new policy and who still may have a pending application after the policy implementation (even if submitted before the implementation date) would be subject to review under the new policy rather than the old one at the time of submission.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by kw7 » Fri Nov 21, 2025 12:13 pm

alterhase58 wrote:
Wed Nov 12, 2025 10:25 pm
No changes relating to to the proposals have been laid before parliament or have been enacted.
As far as I know it's still at the white paper/consultation stage.
It seems that there will unlikely to be a voting process. Check this briefing: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... ril%202026.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by alterhase58 » Fri Nov 21, 2025 1:23 pm

kw7 wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 12:13 pm
alterhase58 wrote:
Wed Nov 12, 2025 10:25 pm
No changes relating to to the proposals have been laid before parliament or have been enacted.
As far as I know it's still at the white paper/consultation stage.
It seems that there will unlikely to be a voting process. Check this briefing: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... ril%202026.
The document you quote from is still the proposals and the timetable is provisional.
Laying before Parliament doesn't necessarily mean it needs voting on.
Statutory Instruments are laid before Parliament and normally waived through.
Correct me if I'm wrong - I know it's a complex process before we see any firm guidance.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:12 pm

Different types of legislation have different levels of approvals required.

Some things, like Section 3(1) registration of children as British citizens, are at the SSHD's discretion. They can just be guidance documents or similar and don't even really count as legislation. Home Office documentation essentially formulates the law/requirements for such topics.

Statutory Instruments (SI), which is essentially law-making delegated by Parliament to ministers (therefore it is also called delegated legislation), can take effect either automatically or can be subject to a negative or affirmative procedure. The procedure that is to be followed is spelt out in the Act of Parliament that gives the minister the power to make the SI/delegated legislation. The negative procedure means that if the minister signs off on an SI, it becomes law automatically unless either one of the two Houses of Parliament prays/votes against it. The affirmative procedure is that the both Houses of Parliament must approve the SI for it to come into force.

The Immigration Rules and its amendments, and the amount of fees payable for immigration and citizenship applications, are made by ministers under the negative procedure. So, unless either House of Parliament actively votes against it, it automatically becomes law. In actual fact, it is very rare for a prayer/vote against an SI in either House of Parliament. In case of the Commons, generally the government has a majority in the House and so can win a vote if there is one and the time of the House and which debates to hold is decided by the government, which holds a majority in the House. In case of the Lords, they are deeply conscious that they are unelected and that the law has been signed off by a minister that is responsible to the Commons. So they rarely vote against it.

The number of times that an SI has been prayed/voted against since WWII in either House is in single digits. So effectively the minister's signature on an SI subject to the negative procedure makes it law.

However, SIs, like the Immigration Rules, are still subject to the courts. And there has already been a court case about whether the Immigration Rules can be retrospectively changed for somebody who entered the UK under a certain set of rules. The courts ruled that once migrants had entered the UK under a specific set of rules, they had a legitimate expectation to continue under those set of rules till settlement. Note that this does not apply if the migrant changed their visa type/pathway to settlement (from skilled worker to spouse, for instance). But this judgement is the reason why changes in the Rules have so far only applied prospectively, not retrospectively.

However, this ruling, by definition, only binds SIs/delegated legislation made by ministers. An Act of Parliament (primary legislation) can override a judgement and make retrospective changes to the law. I understand that the Home Office plans to introduce primary legislation to implement the proposed changes. And that can change the rules even for people already in the UK.

It is worth remembering that in the UK, Parliament is supreme and can overrule the courts by changing the law, unlike other countries where the courts can override the legislature based on their rulings and judgements of a codified constitution.

So to quickly summarise, the changes to the Immigration Rules prospectively (for new migrants) can be brought in any time now, by statutory instrument and without a vote in Parliament. That will likely not affect the existing migrants. This excludes things like suitability criteria.

With regards to changes for migrants already within the UK, the battle for immigration control and changes to the Immigration Rules will move to Parliament likely in the next session of Parliament, after the local elections in May. If the Reform Party does well, that will increase the political pressure on the current UK government to make even more changes through an Act of Parliament, which can be retrospective.

With regards to the rush to the door to get British citizenship, keep in mind that even the rights of British citizens to live in or return to the UK can be curtailed. And they have been in the past. In the 1960s and 70s, the rush of CUKCs from the colonies to the UK as their countries gained independence led to a series of restrictive laws that prevented even people born with CUKC status outside the UK from entering the UK without a visa or permit. Remember that there is no restraint on the power of the UK Parliament to change the law, either prospectively or retrospectively. So do not assume that British citizenship will provide any level of security if the political climate in the UK changes further against immigration. We will always be reliant on the goodwill of the other citizens of the United Kingdom.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by kw7 » Sat Nov 22, 2025 4:22 am

secret.simon wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:12 pm
Different types of legislation have different levels of approvals required.

Some things, like Section 3(1) registration of children as British citizens, are at the SSHD's discretion. They can just be guidance documents or similar and don't even really count as legislation. Home Office documentation essentially formulates the law/requirements for such topics.

Statutory Instruments (SI), which is essentially law-making delegated by Parliament to ministers (therefore it is also called delegated legislation), can take effect either automatically or can be subject to a negative or affirmative procedure. The procedure that is to be followed is spelt out in the Act of Parliament that gives the minister the power to make the SI/delegated legislation. The negative procedure means that if the minister signs off on an SI, it becomes law automatically unless either one of the two Houses of Parliament prays/votes against it. The affirmative procedure is that the both Houses of Parliament must approve the SI for it to come into force.

The Immigration Rules and its amendments, and the amount of fees payable for immigration and citizenship applications, are made by ministers under the negative procedure. So, unless either House of Parliament actively votes against it, it automatically becomes law. In actual fact, it is very rare for a prayer/vote against an SI in either House of Parliament. In case of the Commons, generally the government has a majority in the House and so can win a vote if there is one and the time of the House and which debates to hold is decided by the government, which holds a majority in the House. In case of the Lords, they are deeply conscious that they are unelected and that the law has been signed off by a minister that is responsible to the Commons. So they rarely vote against it.

The number of times that an SI has been prayed/voted against since WWII in either House is in single digits. So effectively the minister's signature on an SI subject to the negative procedure makes it law.

However, SIs, like the Immigration Rules, are still subject to the courts. And there has already been a court case about whether the Immigration Rules can be retrospectively changed for somebody who entered the UK under a certain set of rules. The courts ruled that once migrants had entered the UK under a specific set of rules, they had a legitimate expectation to continue under those set of rules till settlement. Note that this does not apply if the migrant changed their visa type/pathway to settlement (from skilled worker to spouse, for instance). But this judgement is the reason why changes in the Rules have so far only applied prospectively, not retrospectively.

However, this ruling, by definition, only binds SIs/delegated legislation made by ministers. An Act of Parliament (primary legislation) can override a judgement and make retrospective changes to the law. I understand that the Home Office plans to introduce primary legislation to implement the proposed changes. And that can change the rules even for people already in the UK.

It is worth remembering that in the UK, Parliament is supreme and can overrule the courts by changing the law, unlike other countries where the courts can override the legislature based on their rulings and judgements of a codified constitution.

So to quickly summarise, the changes to the Immigration Rules prospectively (for new migrants) can be brought in any time now, by statutory instrument and without a vote in Parliament. That will likely not affect the existing migrants. This excludes things like suitability criteria.

With regards to changes for migrants already within the UK, the battle for immigration control and changes to the Immigration Rules will move to Parliament likely in the next session of Parliament, after the local elections in May. If the Reform Party does well, that will increase the political pressure on the current UK government to make even more changes through an Act of Parliament, which can be retrospective.

With regards to the rush to the door to get British citizenship, keep in mind that even the rights of British citizens to live in or return to the UK can be curtailed. And they have been in the past. In the 1960s and 70s, the rush of CUKCs from the colonies to the UK as their countries gained independence led to a series of restrictive laws that prevented even people born with CUKC status outside the UK from entering the UK without a visa or permit. Remember that there is no restraint on the power of the UK Parliament to change the law, either prospectively or retrospectively. So do not assume that British citizenship will provide any level of security if the political climate in the UK changes further against immigration. We will always be reliant on the goodwill of the other citizens of the United Kingdom.
I read your post several times secret.simon incredible!!

Just a thought, please correct me if I'm wrong:

So it could be reasonably assumed that the pending applications (e.g., ILR submitted before the new rules came into force but still awaiting a decision after the new rules were in place) could be reviewed under the earned settlement rather than the rules in effect at the time of submission.

Even if the new rules are ruling out based on SI, according to Odelola v SSHD? https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... elol-1.htm

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by bamblue » Sat Nov 22, 2025 3:01 pm

Hi all,

I'm on SWV in key public sector and is due to apply for ILR in Aug 2026. For key public sector workers, the fairer route to settlement document says we need to have worked for 5 years to claim 5-year reduction. In terms of evaluating how the worker has fullfilled this particular criterion, I wonder how will the HO judge if the worker has worked for 5 years, not anytime less, e.g. 4 years and 11 months? Is it 5 years in total prior to ILR application, or a continuous period of 5 years, that the HO requires? The document published does not seem to clarify this.

In my own case, I have changed employer once and my previous employer wrongly made me a leaver on 31 March, when the actual last working day is 16 April; they soon rectified the mistake by putting me on a new payroll number and issued me a new P45 form with 16 April as the leaving date. So I have all the payslips to prove that I have left my old job on 16 April, and my new job started the next day 17 April. However none of these P45 forms have the start date on it, all they have is the end date.

My employment has always been continuous but should I be worried if the payroll error will result the HO caseworker look at the wrong leaving date of 31 March, thinking I was unemployed between 1 April and 16 April, given I was wrongly made a leaver on 31 March?

My HRMC record shows two employments with my previous school: one period until 31 March, and another period starting 1 April ending 16 April.

I may sound a bit paranoid but considering the criteria is now changing from the overall income to the length of employment for public workers, I cannot help thinking this will lead to some changes in the documents required when filing an application. In my case, should I ask my previous employer to issue a letter confirming the dates of employment? I hope they will be happy to do this for me, but everyone I know, including the HR, has left.

I would appreciate if any one can give me some advice! Many thanks.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Sat Nov 22, 2025 3:19 pm

@bamblue, these are proposals for changes to the law. The law hasn't yet changed.
secret.simon wrote:
Thu Nov 20, 2025 10:14 pm
Note that these are the announced proposals of the government, but
(a) they are not yet law,
(b) there is no specific legal text that we can refer to yet and
(c) there is a lot of opposition to these proposals within the governing Labour Party.

There is a reasonable chance that nobody on these forums (or frankly even in government) can answer your questions with any level of certainty on these proposals.

The purpose of posting these links is so that the words of the Home Secretary can be read directly and on their own, rather than through speculative and alarmist misinterpretations.

We on these forums know as little as others about what will eventually happen on these proposals. All I would say is that it would be foolish to expect certainty in such uncertain times.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Sat Nov 22, 2025 3:28 pm

kw7 wrote:
Sat Nov 22, 2025 4:22 am
I read your post several times secret.simon incredible!!
I don't know if that is a damning critique of my post (i.e. it was so poorly written that you had to read it multiple times) or whether it was a compliment (i.e. it was more entertaining than J.K.Rowling's stories). I hope it is the latter, not the former.

In any case, it is hopefully self-evident that it was written by myself, not AI generated. I'm of the generation where I had to write out university essays in long form with a fountain pen on foolscap paper. So perhaps writing a wall of prose comes easily to me.
kw7 wrote:
Sat Nov 22, 2025 4:22 am
Just a thought, please correct me if I'm wrong:

So it could be reasonably assumed that the pending applications (e.g., ILR submitted before the new rules came into force but still awaiting a decision after the new rules were in place) could be reviewed under the earned settlement rather than the rules in effect at the time of submission.

Even if the new rules are ruling out based on SI, according to Odelola v SSHD?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... elol-1.htm
I was not aware of this judgments by the Law Lords (incidentally made in the same year when they moved to the UKSC, so likely one of the last ever Law Lords judgments).

On the face of it, it seems to override the judgment that I referred to, in which case I am not sure why the Home Office has not done retrospective changes to the Immigration Rules since the mid-noughties.

Then again, note that I am not a lawyer and don't work in the Home Office, so some things will remain unknown to me.

As to your question about which rules applications will be judged under, at the moment, I would still make a presumption against retrospective application of the law. But the development of the law (as opposed to mere policy announcements) in this field is a known unknown.

If you are at all thus inclined, feel free to go through some old archived light reading from the Home Office.

History of the Immigration Acts
History of British nationality
British Nationality Acts
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by fatguyslim » Sat Nov 22, 2025 10:31 pm

The main problem with these proposed changes is that they target visa holders who are already on the established path to permanent settlement in the UK. Changing the rules mid-way would break the original promise made to them – namely, that they would be eligible for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) after five years of continuous residence.

In such circumstances, can this policy not be challenged in court? Many people who entered on Health and Care Worker visas before the recent changes were explicitly assured of a five-year route to settlement. Is there no legal avenue to hold the government to that original commitment?

The impact on those who arrived after April 2024 is particularly harsh: they have already been banned from bringing dependants and, if the settlement period is extended to 10 or even 15 years, they will now face more than a decade – potentially 15 years – before they can reunite with their families.
If the government proceeds with these changes, I would very much like to support or join any legal challenge to fight them in court. I would be grateful if anyone can share information about existing legal actions, law firms specialising in immigration judicial reviews, crowdfunding efforts, or organisations coordinating a challenge, so that affected visa holders can get involved.
Thank you.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by Backer » Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:26 am

20 years ago the Home Office increased the period required for ILR from 4 to 5 years and it also applied to those already in the country i.e. was applied retrospective.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Sun Nov 23, 2025 7:09 am

Backer wrote:
Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:26 am
20 years ago the Home Office increased the period required for ILR from 4 to 5 years and it also applied to those already in the country i.e. was applied retrospective.
And the retrospective application of that change was overturned by the High Court in HSMPForumsLtd vs SSHD. So that change applied only to new applicants, not those already in the UK.

However, it may be that that case and its doctrine of legitimate expectations may have been overturned by the Law Lords in the case referenced above.
kw7 wrote:
Sat Nov 22, 2025 4:22 am
Odelola v SSHD? https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... elol-1.htm
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by secret.simon » Sun Nov 23, 2025 7:16 am

@fatguyslim, your question was answered by me in the long post I wrote above. Do read that long post which will answer most of your questions. But here are some excerpts that are relevant to you.
secret.simon wrote:
Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:12 pm
SIs, like the Immigration Rules, are still subject to the courts. And there has already been a court case about whether the Immigration Rules can be retrospectively changed for somebody who entered the UK under a certain set of rules. The courts ruled that once migrants had entered the UK under a specific set of rules, they had a legitimate expectation to continue under those set of rules till settlement. Note that this does not apply if the migrant changed their visa type/pathway to settlement (from skilled worker to spouse, for instance). But this judgement is the reason why changes in the Rules have so far only applied prospectively, not retrospectively.

However, this ruling, by definition, only binds SIs/delegated legislation made by ministers. An Act of Parliament (primary legislation) can override a judgement and make retrospective changes to the law. I understand that the Home Office plans to introduce primary legislation to implement the proposed changes. And that can change the rules even for people already in the UK.

It is worth remembering that in the UK, Parliament is supreme and can overrule the courts by changing the law, unlike other countries where the courts can override the legislature based on their rulings and judgements of a codified constitution.
...
With regards to changes for migrants already within the UK, the battle for immigration control and changes to the Immigration Rules will move to Parliament likely in the next session of Parliament, after the local elections in May. If the Reform Party does well, that will increase the political pressure on the current UK government to make even more changes through an Act of Parliament, which can be retrospective.
The battle for changes to the rules that affect people already in the UK will be a political battle, not a legal battle, as it was with Brexit.

And Acts of Parliament can't be appealed to the courts, in case that was going to be a follow-up question. They are supreme, even over the courts.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by Backer » Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:26 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Sun Nov 23, 2025 7:09 am
Backer wrote:
Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:26 am
20 years ago the Home Office increased the period required for ILR from 4 to 5 years and it also applied to those already in the country i.e. was applied retrospective.
And the retrospective application of that change was overturned by the High Court in HSMPForumsLtd vs SSHD. So that change applied only to new applicants, not those already in the UK.

However, it may be that that case and its doctrine of legitimate expectations may have been overturned by the Law Lords in the case referenced above.
kw7 wrote:
Sat Nov 22, 2025 4:22 am
Odelola v SSHD? https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... elol-1.htm
No. It was not. The HSMP mattet was a different issue which came about later.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by Backer » Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:33 pm

The Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) was raised from 4 to 5 years in April 2006, taking effect on April 3, 2006. This change was part of broader immigration rule changes made by the UK government and meant that all new HSMP applicants from that date onward had to meet the 5-year requirement.
Change date: April 3, 2006
What changed: The qualifying period for ILR for all employment-related categories, including HSMP, increased from 4 to 5 years.
Reasoning: The government's reasoning was that a longer period would better ensure that migrants were socially integrated into the UK and would align with the "European norm" for settlement.
Impact: For new applicants from that date, the qualifying period became five years. However, a High Court ruling in 2009 confirmed that those who applied to the HSMP before the rule change were still eligible for ILR after four years.

So, only HSMP benefitted from the court ruling at the time.

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Re: Proposed immigration changes 2025 discussion thread - UK set to limit permanent residency for some migrants

Post by kw7 » Tue Nov 25, 2025 4:05 am

Backer wrote:
Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:33 pm
The Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP) qualifying period for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) was raised from 4 to 5 years in April 2006, taking effect on April 3, 2006. This change was part of broader immigration rule changes made by the UK government and meant that all new HSMP applicants from that date onward had to meet the 5-year requirement.
Change date: April 3, 2006
What changed: The qualifying period for ILR for all employment-related categories, including HSMP, increased from 4 to 5 years.
Reasoning: The government's reasoning was that a longer period would better ensure that migrants were socially integrated into the UK and would align with the "European norm" for settlement.
Impact: For new applicants from that date, the qualifying period became five years. However, a High Court ruling in 2009 confirmed that those who applied to the HSMP before the rule change were still eligible for ILR after four years.

So, only HSMP benefitted from the court ruling at the time.
I could assume that this time's immigration changes proposed last week will at least to have the retrospective application as the HSMP change (4-5 years).

But how about the people who have applied for ILR based on 4 years before the change, but then ILR based on HSMP changed to 5 years while they are waiting for a decision. Were their applications reviewd based on 4 years or 5 years?

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