Treaty rights

[kmk]

Hi there.

I have posted some questions about unmarried partner visa before (posted under appeal for unmarried partner visa) and came up with another question!! Sorry guys please help me again....

Having given some advises from this forum, I have decided to change my status to student visa from visitor's visa in order to stay in UK.

However, my solicitor said that he have wrote a letter to HO stating my right to excercise treaty right as I am still married to Italian national husband (going through divorce at this stage). He said they can not say no to this so I will be free to stay here in UK and work free untill divorce is settled.

My solicitor said I have no need to extend my visitor's visa and no need to apply for any visa in this situation as I can excercise my treaty right which is outside immigration control.

As my unmarried partner application has been refused Nov 2003, I am currently in pocesses of appealing. Therefore I have applied for visitor's visa to come back and join my partner despite the fact that I am non visa national (Japanese).

My socilitor is saying that as soon as I received the respose letter from HO saying I have a right to excercise treaty right then I am sorted for now. He said if you go home now and come back and stopped by immigration, then you just have to say that you are excercising treaty right. ??? My husband(going through divorve) is in UK and working so I have a right?

It is very confuseing as I don't get it.

Suddenly my solicitor is saying that I do not need a visa. He did not know my husband is still in Uk untill recently. But then I do not need to apply for any kind of visa?
What about my passport? Do I not have to seal or stamp any sort of visa?

Sorry for going on again but as you can see I am very confused.
Do appriciated if any one can explain it to me...

[Kayalami]

Not to be blunt but I don't see where the confusion is:

1. You are not living with your Italian husband

2. You do not hold a dependent of an EU National Residence permit and/or visa stamp in lieu in - if you did the burden of proof in relation to immigration lies with the Home Office so they won't bother with you. Now the burden is entirely on you.

3. The application by your 'lawyer' to the HO stating the issue of treaty rights although it buys you time is incomplete - the HO will write back and ask for your huband's passport and/or national identity card, marriage certificate and proof of economic activity i.e. employment or self employment or failing that evidence that he is not on benefits + of course your marriage certificate - do you know where your husband is?

4. The HO know you are not with your Italian husband, you live with another man and have applied for an unmarried partners visa. It also appears they are aware of your impending divorce.

5. The HO will likely sit on the 'lawyers letter' for up to six months to await the divorce and send back a refusal. They may also write back sooner with a refusal on the basis that the treaty 'application' is not only missing supporting documentation but is on the basis of a marriage of convenience - can you blame them? Exepct to see your immigration history at any appeal.

6. You state in your initial post that divorce proceedings started in Sep 2003 - if it was not contested it should have been finalised by now. Where was it filed? Perhaps it went through and you don't even know it has - can you check on this with the relevant county court and come back to the board.

7. My advise is - get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

by the way I couldn't resist this:

My socilitor is saying that as soon as I received the respose letter from HO saying I have a right to excercise treaty right then I am sorted for now. He said if you go home now and come back and stopped by immigration, then you just have to say that you are excercising treaty right. ??? My husband(going through divorve) is in UK and working so I have a right?

Spouses of an EU national who are themselves not EU Nationals and are joining their EU spouse exercising treaty rights in the UK must hold an EU Family Permit unless they are non visa nationals coming to the UK for six months or less. This means if you want to enter the UK on the treaty basis you must get an EU family permit at the British Embassy in Tokyo - needs all those documents I mentioned before and your husband's support. If you don't get a family permit the Immigration Officer will admit you as a visitor under the immigration rules. You may be very lucky and get a 12 month admission then told to get in touch with croydon to resolve the treaty issues but I wouldn't chance it. There is also the risk that you will be deemed in further immigration applications to have misrepresented your circumstances.

Good Luck

[tdabash]

WELL DONE KAYALAMI
Bravo

Listen kmk: take kayalami's advice which is:

get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner ( and I would say if he is really supporting you) and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

I am sorry I have to talk American:-
Sorry Mam, we can't help you any more. Please do not waste our time and good luck with your lawyer .

[kmk]

I am sorry if you feel that you wasted your time...

But your advices and my solicitor's saying seems to be so different, I am very confused.

Thank you for all your time and replies. I will make a decision based on all of your advices.

I can't thank you enough.

[tdabash]

Dear Kmk,

Your lawyer advised you to apply for UP visa without establishment of the law requirements.
Did he look at Para 295 (i)? Did he look at Para 295 (ii) if he did, how did he suddenly realise the story of your husband. How is he going to win your appeal? How is going to obtain residency for you under the EC treaty rights?

Please refer to previous advice by Kayalami and my self in respect of application of the law.

Kayalami confirmed to you that you will not be able to use EC dimension. Please visit IND site yourself. Please READ EEC1 form, EEC2 form and Guidelines for making settlement applications by European nationals and their family members.

I believe you are an adult and have a brain.

Kayalami and I do not know your lawyer and we do not charge you for an advice. Kayalami is an expert and very knowledgeable. I can confirm this based on analysis of what she (if I am not mistaken) writes. I have explained to you who I am. We do not know each other.

If you would like another free opinion, you may go to the Immigration advisory service. Do some work yourself to find out where it is.However, the advice you get on this site is honest and to the pont. This is not a solicitor's firm but I find the advice to be very sensible and in context of my reading in the law.

Lawyers are consulted to defend or guide people in context of the law. They do not invent the rules. Do you think that the ECO in Japan has done a mistake in his decision? Do you think that the home office will violate the rules? Do you think that the adjudicator will violate the rules?
You can pay your lawyers to say whatever they like, but can you pay the others?

You are to your lawyer just a case. He may show sympathy at the time you meet or speak with him but do you think that he remembers your case all the time? Do you think he would be bothered if you lost your case?

It is you who live in worries. It is you who would bear the consequences. In my brutal legal fight with HO and ECO, my solicitor and Barrister have said a lot of things. They even undermined some documentary evidence that I submitted. I took my own decision, laid out my own strategy and I won by the law because my cause is right. I laughed at the end.

I am sorry to say: Based on the information you have given us you do not have a defendable case, so please build it up.

I will repeat kaya's final message

Not to be blunt but I don't see where the confusion is:

1. You are not living with your Italian husband

2. You do not hold a dependent of an EU National Residence permit and/or visa stamp in lieu in - if you did the burden of proof in relation to immigration lies with the Home Office so they won't bother with you. Now the burden is entirely on you.

3. The application by your 'lawyer' to the HO stating the issue of treaty rights although it buys you time is incomplete - the HO will write back and ask for your huband's passport and/or national identity card, marriage certificate and proof of economic activity i.e. employment or self employment or failing that evidence that he is not on benefits + of course your marriage certificate - do you know where your husband is?

4. The HO know you are not with your Italian husband, you live with another man and have applied for an unmarried partners visa. It also appears they are aware of your impending divorce.

5. The HO will likely sit on the 'lawyers letter' for up to six months to await the divorce and send back a refusal. They may also write back sooner with a refusal on the basis that the treaty 'application' is not only missing supporting documentation but is on the basis of a marriage of convenience - can you blame them? Exepct to see your immigration history at any appeal.

6. You state in your initial post that divorce proceedings started in Sep 2003 - if it was not contested it should have been finalised by now. Where was it filed? Perhaps it went through and you don't even know it has - can you check on this with the relevant county court and come back to the board.

7. My advise is - get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

by the way I couldn't resist this:

Quote:
My socilitor is saying that as soon as I received the respose letter from HO saying I have a right to excercise treaty right then I am sorted for now. He said if you go home now and come back and stopped by immigration, then you just have to say that you are excercising treaty right. ??? My husband(going through divorve) is in UK and working so I have a right?

Spouses of an EU national who are themselves not EU Nationals and are joining their EU spouse exercising treaty rights in the UK must hold an EU Family Permit unless they are non visa nationals coming to the UK for six months or less. This means if you want to enter the UK on the treaty basis you must get an EU family permit at the British Embassy in Tokyo - needs all those documents I mentioned before and your husband's support. If you don't get a family permit the Immigration Officer will admit you as a visitor under the immigration rules. You may be very lucky and get a 12 month admission then told to get in touch with croydon to resolve the treaty issues but I wouldn't chance it. There is also the risk that you will be deemed in further immigration applications to have misrepresented your circumstances.

Good Luck

and my final message

WELL DONE KAYALAMI
Bravo

Listen kmk: take kayalami's advice which is: get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner ( and I would say if he is really supporting you) and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

I am sorry I have to talk American:-
Sorry Mam, we can't help you any more. Please do not waste our time and good luck with your lawyer .

This time I am not going to talk American,

I am sorry I have to be hard on you; in order to wake you up before it is too late.

Take your decision and Good luck

[AncientAlien]

Dear Kmk,

Your lawyer advised you to apply for UP visa without establishment of the law requirements.
Did he look at Para 295 (i)? Did he look at Para 295 (ii) if he did, how did he suddenly realise the story of your husband. How is he going to win your appeal? How is going to obtain residency for you under the EC treaty rights?

Please refer to previous advice by Kayalami and my self in respect of application of the law.

Kayalami confirmed to you that you will not be able to use EC dimension. Please visit IND site yourself. Please READ EEC1 form, EEC2 form and Guidelines for making settlement applications by European nationals and their family members.

I believe you are an adult and have a brain.

Kayalami and I do not know your lawyer and we do not charge you for an advice. Kayalami is an expert and very knowledgeable. I can confirm this based on analysis of what she (if I am not mistaken) writes. I have explained to you who I am. We do not know each other.

If you would like another free opinion, you may go to the Immigration advisory service. Do some work yourself to find out where it is.However, the advice you get on this site is honest and to the pont. This is not a solicitor's firm but I find the advice to be very sensible and in context of my reading in the law.

Lawyers are consulted to defend or guide people in context of the law. They do not invent the rules. Do you think that the ECO in Japan has done a mistake in his decision? Do you think that the home office will violate the rules? Do you think that the adjudicator will violate the rules?
You can pay your lawyers to say whatever they like, but can you pay the others?

You are to your lawyer just a case. He may show sympathy at the time you meet or speak with him but do you think that he remembers your case all the time? Do you think he would be bothered if you lost your case?

It is you who live in worries. It is you who would bear the consequences. In my brutal legal fight with HO and ECO, my solicitor and Barrister have said a lot of things. They even undermined some documentary evidence that I submitted. I took my own decision, laid out my own strategy and I won by the law because my cause is right. I laughed at the end.

I am sorry to say: Based on the information you have given us you do not have a defendable case, so please build it up.

I will repeat kaya's final message

Not to be blunt but I don't see where the confusion is:

1. You are not living with your Italian husband

2. You do not hold a dependent of an EU National Residence permit and/or visa stamp in lieu in - if you did the burden of proof in relation to immigration lies with the Home Office so they won't bother with you. Now the burden is entirely on you.

3. The application by your 'lawyer' to the HO stating the issue of treaty rights although it buys you time is incomplete - the HO will write back and ask for your huband's passport and/or national identity card, marriage certificate and proof of economic activity i.e. employment or self employment or failing that evidence that he is not on benefits + of course your marriage certificate - do you know where your husband is?

4. The HO know you are not with your Italian husband, you live with another man and have applied for an unmarried partners visa. It also appears they are aware of your impending divorce.

5. The HO will likely sit on the 'lawyers letter' for up to six months to await the divorce and send back a refusal. They may also write back sooner with a refusal on the basis that the treaty 'application' is not only missing supporting documentation but is on the basis of a marriage of convenience - can you blame them? Exepct to see your immigration history at any appeal.

6. You state in your initial post that divorce proceedings started in Sep 2003 - if it was not contested it should have been finalised by now. Where was it filed? Perhaps it went through and you don't even know it has - can you check on this with the relevant county court and come back to the board.

7. My advise is - get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

by the way I couldn't resist this:

Quote:
My socilitor is saying that as soon as I received the respose letter from HO saying I have a right to excercise treaty right then I am sorted for now. He said if you go home now and come back and stopped by immigration, then you just have to say that you are excercising treaty right. ??? My husband(going through divorve) is in UK and working so I have a right?

Spouses of an EU national who are themselves not EU Nationals and are joining their EU spouse exercising treaty rights in the UK must hold an EU Family Permit unless they are non visa nationals coming to the UK for six months or less. This means if you want to enter the UK on the treaty basis you must get an EU family permit at the British Embassy in Tokyo - needs all those documents I mentioned before and your husband's support. If you don't get a family permit the Immigration Officer will admit you as a visitor under the immigration rules. You may be very lucky and get a 12 month admission then told to get in touch with croydon to resolve the treaty issues but I wouldn't chance it. There is also the risk that you will be deemed in further immigration applications to have misrepresented your circumstances.

Good Luck

and my final message

WELL DONE KAYALAMI
Bravo

Listen kmk: take kayalami's advice which is: get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner ( and I would say if he is really supporting you) and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

I am sorry I have to talk American:-
Sorry Mam, we can't help you any more. Please do not waste our time and good luck with your lawyer .

This time I am not going to talk American,

I am sorry I have to be hard on you; in order to wake you up before it is too late.

Take your decision and Good luck

good luck

[Rozen]

Dear Kmk,

Your lawyer advised you to apply for UP visa without establishment of the law requirements.
Did he look at Para 295 (i)? Did he look at Para 295 (ii) if he did, how did he suddenly realise the story of your husband. How is he going to win your appeal? How is going to obtain residency for you under the EC treaty rights?

Please refer to previous advice by Kayalami and my self in respect of application of the law.

Kayalami confirmed to you that you will not be able to use EC dimension. Please visit IND site yourself. Please READ EEC1 form, EEC2 form and Guidelines for making settlement applications by European nationals and their family members.

I believe you are an adult and have a brain.

Kayalami and I do not know your lawyer and we do not charge you for an advice. Kayalami is an expert and very knowledgeable. I can confirm this based on analysis of what she (if I am not mistaken) writes. I have explained to you who I am. We do not know each other.

If you would like another free opinion, you may go to the Immigration advisory service. Do some work yourself to find out where it is.However, the advice you get on this site is honest and to the pont. This is not a solicitor's firm but I find the advice to be very sensible and in context of my reading in the law.

Lawyers are consulted to defend or guide people in context of the law. They do not invent the rules. Do you think that the ECO in Japan has done a mistake in his decision? Do you think that the home office will violate the rules? Do you think that the adjudicator will violate the rules?
You can pay your lawyers to say whatever they like, but can you pay the others?

You are to your lawyer just a case. He may show sympathy at the time you meet or speak with him but do you think that he remembers your case all the time? Do you think he would be bothered if you lost your case?

It is you who live in worries. It is you who would bear the consequences. In my brutal legal fight with HO and ECO, my solicitor and Barrister have said a lot of things. They even undermined some documentary evidence that I submitted. I took my own decision, laid out my own strategy and I won by the law because my cause is right. I laughed at the end.

I am sorry to say: Based on the information you have given us you do not have a defendable case, so please build it up.

I will repeat kaya's final message

Not to be blunt but I don't see where the confusion is:

1. You are not living with your Italian husband

2. You do not hold a dependent of an EU National Residence permit and/or visa stamp in lieu in - if you did the burden of proof in relation to immigration lies with the Home Office so they won't bother with you. Now the burden is entirely on you.

3. The application by your 'lawyer' to the HO stating the issue of treaty rights although it buys you time is incomplete - the HO will write back and ask for your huband's passport and/or national identity card, marriage certificate and proof of economic activity i.e. employment or self employment or failing that evidence that he is not on benefits + of course your marriage certificate - do you know where your husband is?

4. The HO know you are not with your Italian husband, you live with another man and have applied for an unmarried partners visa. It also appears they are aware of your impending divorce.

5. The HO will likely sit on the 'lawyers letter' for up to six months to await the divorce and send back a refusal. They may also write back sooner with a refusal on the basis that the treaty 'application' is not only missing supporting documentation but is on the basis of a marriage of convenience - can you blame them? Exepct to see your immigration history at any appeal.

6. You state in your initial post that divorce proceedings started in Sep 2003 - if it was not contested it should have been finalised by now. Where was it filed? Perhaps it went through and you don't even know it has - can you check on this with the relevant county court and come back to the board.

7. My advise is - get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

by the way I couldn't resist this:

Quote:
My socilitor is saying that as soon as I received the respose letter from HO saying I have a right to excercise treaty right then I am sorted for now. He said if you go home now and come back and stopped by immigration, then you just have to say that you are excercising treaty right. ??? My husband(going through divorve) is in UK and working so I have a right?

Spouses of an EU national who are themselves not EU Nationals and are joining their EU spouse exercising treaty rights in the UK must hold an EU Family Permit unless they are non visa nationals coming to the UK for six months or less. This means if you want to enter the UK on the treaty basis you must get an EU family permit at the British Embassy in Tokyo - needs all those documents I mentioned before and your husband's support. If you don't get a family permit the Immigration Officer will admit you as a visitor under the immigration rules. You may be very lucky and get a 12 month admission then told to get in touch with croydon to resolve the treaty issues but I wouldn't chance it. There is also the risk that you will be deemed in further immigration applications to have misrepresented your circumstances.

Good Luck

and my final message

WELL DONE KAYALAMI
Bravo

Listen kmk: take kayalami's advice which is: get a student visa to keep you in status, sit out the waiting period for the divorce, marry your new man/partner ( and I would say if he is really supporting you) and apply for a spouse visa or if you have no desire to get married again apply for unmarried partner visa once you have spent the required 2 year period.

I am sorry I have to talk American:-
Sorry Mam, we can't help you any more. Please do not waste our time and good luck with your lawyer .

This time I am not going to talk American,

I am sorry I have to be hard on you; in order to wake you up before it is too late.

Take your decision and Good luck

good luck

Ancient Alien, may I ask... why have you resurrected this topic?