Spouse non eu citizen - stuck abroad.

[highpraises]

Hello, i have found this site very enlightening.
My husband (a nigerian) had a EUfam4 card in ireland which has been renewed regularly since we had our daughter in ireland 9 years ago. He failed to renew it for over a year. He had to rush back to Nigeria on an emergency. and went to for new stamp (goes to nigeria regularly) and was told by Garda that bcos he had not renewed his card for a year, despite the situation he would have to renew it in nigeria.

He has been there since last year and they are asking for my proof of exercising eu treaty rights in Ireland (i am uk Citizen) and proof of address i think. I am about to commence a 6month CIPD course this month in Dublin …does this meet requirements?

Do they have the right to ask for such doc evidence apart from proof of family link (we have been married for 13 years) and what would you advise that we do or take along with us. Myself and our children will be going with him to Irish embassy in Abuja as a family to apply? Please help!!!

[Ben]

Hello, i have found this site very enlightening.
My husband (a nigerian) had a EUfam4 card in ireland which has been renewed regularly since we had our daughter in ireland 9 years ago. He failed to renew it for over a year. He had to rush back to Nigeria on an emergency. and went to for new stamp (goes to nigeria regularly) and was told by Garda that bcos he had not renewed his card for a year, despite the situation he would have to renew it in nigeria.

What was the duration of his recent trip to Nigeria?
What was the nature of the emergency?
How many months of the year does he usually spend in Ireland?
How many months of the year does he usually spend outside of Ireland?

He has been there since last year and they are asking for my proof of exercising eu treaty rights in Ireland (i am uk Citizen) and proof of address i think. I am about to commence a 6month CIPD course this month in Dublin …does this meet requirements?

Yes it does. You also must have comprehensive sickness insurance cover and you must have sufficient resources for yourself and your family
members so as not to become a burden on the Irish social assistance system.

Do they have the right to ask for such doc evidence apart from proof of family link (we have been married for 13 years)

Yes. You need to prove your nationalities, your residence, your family link, you exercising of a Treaty right and, in your case, that you have comprehensive sickness insurance cover and that you have sufficient resources for yourself and your family members so as not to become a burden on the Irish social assistance system.

and what would you advise that we do or take along with us. Myself and our children will be going with him to Irish embassy in Abuja as a family to apply? Please help!!!

You should take with you evidence to prove what I mentioned above. What your husband is apply for is an EUTR visa (it's free, by the way - and must be issued as soon as possible).

[brownbonno]

Hello, i have found this site very enlightening.
My husband (a nigerian) had a EUfam4 card in ireland which has been renewed regularly since we had our daughter in ireland 9 years ago. He failed to renew it for over a year. He had to rush back to Nigeria on an emergency. and went to for new stamp (goes to nigeria regularly) and was told by Garda that bcos he had not renewed his card for a year, despite the situation he would have to renew it in nigeria.

He has been there since last year and they are asking for my proof of exercising eu treaty rights in Ireland (i am uk Citizen) and proof of address i think. I am about to commence a 6month CIPD course this month in Dublin …does this meet requirements?

Do they have the right to ask for such doc evidence apart from proof of family link (we have been married for 13 years) and what would you advise that we do or take along with us. Myself and our children will be going with him to Irish embassy in Abuja as a family to apply? Please help!!!

Firstly,residence permit for EU family members should be issued and valid for 5 years.If you/husband have been in Ireland for 9 years,then you/husband should be applying for a permanent residence permit(with a proof of exercising the treaty rights in Ireland).
To define your residence status depends on your economic/student/self sufficient activities in the country within the 9 years period.
Comprehensive insurance is only required if your claims is under self Sufficient category.
Now that your husband is in Nigeria,he should go to the Irish embassy and apply for a D visa-Spouse of EU citizen.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... EU_Citizen


http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

[Ben]

Firstly,residence permit for EU family members should be issued and valid for 5 years.If you/husband have been in Ireland for 9 years,then you/husband should be applying for a permanent residence permit(with a proof of exercising the treaty rights in Ireland).

Directive 2004/38/EC came into effect on 30th April 2004. It was implemented in Ireland on 1st January 2007.

When does the right to reside in accordance with the provisions of the Directive begin from? 30th April 2004, when the Directive came into effect? Or from the date of entry / residence, before the Directive came into effect?

To define your residence status depends on your economic/student/self sufficient activities in the country within the 9 years period.
Comprehensive insurance is only required if your claims is under self Sufficient category.

Right of residence for more than three months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:

(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host
Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal
purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the
relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as
they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member
State during their period of residence

[brownbonno]

Firstly,residence permit for EU family members should be issued and valid for 5 years.If you/husband have been in Ireland for 9 years,then you/husband should be applying for a permanent residence permit(with a proof of exercising the treaty rights in Ireland).

Directive 2004/38/EC came into effect on 30th April 2004. It was implemented in Ireland on 1st January 2007.

When does the right to reside in accordance with the provisions of the Directive begin from? 30th April 2004, when the Directive came into effect? Or from the date of entry / residence, before the Directive came into effect?

To define your residence status depends on your economic/student/self sufficient activities in the country within the 9 years period.
Comprehensive insurance is only required if your claims is under self Sufficient category.

Right of residence for more than three months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:

(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host
Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal
purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the
relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as
they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member
State during their period of residence

Immigration laws exist in Ireland before the advent of the Directive 2004/38/EC and a case law(Polish national) in the UK set a precedence for those already within a member state before April 2004.

Comprehensive sickness insurance cover only applies to those under self sufficiency category.Otherwise it will be discriminatry and unfair for EU citizens exercising the treaty rights to be subjected to comprehensive sickness insurance cover when he or she is having an equivalent right with the ordinary irish citizen.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

[Ben]

Immigration laws exist in Ireland before the advent of the Directive 2004/38/EC and a case law(Polish national) in the UK set a precedence for those already within a member state before April 2004.

Thanks, must read up on that. I've been searching for information on the rights of those residing prior to 30th April 2004, but haven't found a lot. Do you know the name of the Polish case you referred to?

Comprehensive sickness insurance cover only applies to those under self sufficiency category.Otherwise it will be discriminatry and unfair for EU citizens exercising the treaty rights to be subjected to comprehensive sickness insurance cover when he or she is having an equivalent right with the ordinary irish citizen.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

An interesting opinion, but the Directive disagrees with you (see quoted text from Article 7 in my previous post).

It is correctly implemented in SI 656 of 2006 as follows:

Subject to Regulation 20, a Union citizen may reside in the State for a period longer than 3
months if he or she -

(iii) is enrolled in an educational establishment in the State for the principal purpose of
following a course of study there, including a vocational training course, and has
comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself, his or her
spouse and any accompanying dependants

[brownbonno]

Immigration laws exist in Ireland before the advent of the Directive 2004/38/EC and a case law(Polish national) in the UK set a precedence for those already within a member state before April 2004.

Thanks, must read up on that. I've been searching for information on the rights of those residing prior to 30th April 2004, but haven't found a lot. Do you know the name of the Polish case you referred to?

Comprehensive sickness insurance cover only applies to those under self sufficiency category.Otherwise it will be discriminatry and unfair for EU citizens exercising the treaty rights to be subjected to comprehensive sickness insurance cover when he or she is having an equivalent right with the ordinary irish citizen.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

An interesting opinion, but the Directive disagrees with you (see quoted text from Article 7 in my previous post).

It is correctly implemented in SI 656 of 2006 as follows:

Subject to Regulation 20, a Union citizen may reside in the State for a period longer than 3
months if he or she -

(iii) is enrolled in an educational establishment in the State for the principal purpose of
following a course of study there, including a vocational training course, and has
comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself, his or her
spouse and any accompanying dependants

JT and others (Polish workers – time spent in UK) Poland [2008] UKAIT 00077

[Ben]

JT and others (Polish workers – time spent in UK) Poland [2008] UKAIT 00077

Got it, thanks.

[86ti]

Comprehensive sickness insurance cover only applies to those under self sufficiency category.Otherwise it will be discriminatry and unfair for EU citizens exercising the treaty rights to be subjected to comprehensive sickness insurance cover when he or she is having an equivalent right with the ordinary irish citizen.
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

So Irish are not required to have health insurance, i.e. they do not pay contributions towards a health system?

[Obie]

Hi,

The Irish had no right to have asked you husband to reapply from Nigeria.

He shouldn't have taken there word, and should have sought further advise.

Even before the commencement of 2004/38EC into force , they are suppose to facilitate his residency in Ireland as oppose to misleading him that his residency has to be processed in Nigeria.

The first step is to get him back in . They have no right to request the silly documents they have requested as your husband has the right to enter for the first 3 month before any formalities can be imposed.
As he is not in the community it will be a bit difficult to fight them tooth and nail and hence you might have to dance to their tune.
However insist to them you do not have to provide evidence of treaty rights as you husband is coming to Join you and you have enough resource for him not to become a burden on public resource.
Quote Metock to them if they will care to listen.

The polish ruling in the UK cannot be applied in Ireland as they are not oblidge to adhere to it. If the matter had been taken to ECJ and a ruling had been made, then it would have been legally binding in all member states.

It is a pretty decent ruling, however one will be unable to use it with the Irish as they will reject it outright. I was hoping that case will be sent to the ECJ. I Felt dissappointed it wasn't, as it would lead to some member states fiddling about with Community citizen's rights.

[highpraises]

Hello and thanks ever so mch for your helpful responses.

My husband went for mothers burial and when he has been to nigeria in the past it is only for 10 days max which has only been twice in the last 5 years.

I am confused though...if i am a student in Ireland why do i require insurance.

He has approached Irish consulate in abuja like i said before and was advised that all doc evidence is in place but was handed a notice listing further evidence required. This stated proof of employment/student etc but ot insurance cover on the list.

Please can you advise on what do when we go together with remaining docs requested thanks ever so much

[Ben]

Hello and thanks ever so mch for your helpful responses.

My husband went for mothers burial and when he has been to nigeria in the past it is only for 10 days max which has only been twice in the last 5 years.

How long has your husband been in Nigeria for, on this trip? To rephrase the question, for how long has he been continually absent from Ireland?

I am confused though...if i am a student in Ireland why do i require insurance.

Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for
a period of longer than three months if they:

<snip>

(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host
Member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal
purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the
relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as
they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member
State during their period of residence;

He has approached Irish consulate in abuja like i said before and was advised that all doc evidence is in place but was handed a notice listing further evidence required. This stated proof of employment/student etc but ot insurance cover on the list.

Please can you advise on what do when we go together with remaining docs requested thanks ever so much

Assuming his previous / current Residence Card is no longer valid, evidence is required that he is the family member of an EU national with a right of residence or permanent residence in Ireland. You have the right of residence if you have lived in Ireland for more than 3 months, but less than 5 years, and are exercising a Treaty right.

[highpraises]

Thank you....well he has been in nigria now since october for the burial he approached immediately afterawards and was advised further docs required.

Please note that before he left his green card had not been renewed for nearly 2 years and they refused to renew it when he apoproached following mothers deathexcept through him writing to the Gardai explaining why he had failed to do so.

He however had to travel the next day for burial and they were not interested insisting thet he apply for renewal when he gets to nigeria.

[Ben]

Wait a sec.. green card?

Would you mind clearing a few things up, please?

1. What was the exact description of the card your husband last held in Ireland (Stamp number)?

2. When was it issued?

3. When did it expire?

4. How long have you lived in Ireland for?

5. What have you done here since living here (working / study etc.)?

6. When did you marry?

[highpraises]

Thanks...its an eufam4.

it expired two years ago and it was not renewed due to procrastination
I do nt know when issued off head but i think it was about 6 years ago
We got married in England 14 years ago

Had our first child in Dublin 9 years ago.

I have been a stay at home mother and i am about to take on vocational study for a year.

[Ben]

highpraises, something doesn't add up here.

"Stamp 4 EUFam" was only invented in 2007 (or was it late 2006?). How can your husband have held a Stamp 4 EUFam Residence Card which expired in 2007?

Being a stay at home mother, while presumably your husband worked, means that the Treaty right you have been exercising is self-sufficiency, and this is perfectly valid. However, in order for you to have been an EEA national with the right of residence (and your husband a non-EEA national family member with the right of residence) in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC, you should have had comprehensive sickness insurance for you and your family. If you did not have sickness insurance, this would have been a valid reason for DoJ to refuse a Residence Card (EU1) application from your husband.

Anyway, I suppose that isn't really the issue now in question. When will you start your course? At the moment, from what you have said, you do not appear to be an EEA national with the right of residence in Ireland in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC. You will be, once you are enrolled on a course of study and you have comprehensive sickness insurance for you and your family.

Once you are an EEA national with the right of residence in Ireland, your husband will be non-EEA national family member with the right of residence in Ireland. As such, he will be entitled to an entry visa issued free of charge and issued as soon as possible.

It could be argued, in accordance with Article 6 of the Directive, that your husband has the right of residence in Ireland for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid passport. However, a counter argument is simple: how can the right of residence be held by a non-EEA family member of an EEA national who does not herself hold the right of residence? I don't know of any president for this kind of circumstance.

It is certain that, once you are enrolled in a course of study and you have comprehensive sickness insurance for you and your family, you will be an EEA national with the right of residence in Ireland and, by virtue of this, your husband will be non-EEA national family member with the right of residence in Ireland. With the right of residence comes the right of entry, and so an EUTR visa for your husband cannot be refused.

[Obie]

It could be argued, in accordance with Article 6 of the Directive, that your husband has the right of residence in Ireland for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid passport. However, a counter argument is simple: how can the right of residence be held by a non-EEA family member of an EEA national who does not herself hold the right of residence? I don't know of any president for this kind of circumstance.

Ben you assessment is superb, however i think Article 5 is linked to article6, which permits EEA national entry without any formalities for holiday or to seek work for a period of 3 months, which is a standard rights that is independent of exercising treaty rights.

Article 7 is what deals with proper residence. In this case the wife needs to prove she is exercising a treaty right in order for the non-EEA family member to qualify.

They are not required to demand any source of sustenance for that minimal duration, however because the husband is not in the EEA or at the border, the Irish could argue"level of competence" that they have the right to satisfy themselves that the individual i.e the non-eea family member will not be a burden to public resource during and after those 3 months (should they wish to stay longer) and hence those requirements are legit.

Because the wife hasn't established any roots in Ireland or the husband cannot produce evidence of adequate finance, it would make that requirement valid.