EU national taking non-EU spouse to Ireland

[yustynne]

Hello people,
I'm a Lithuanian citizen and I want to take my Moroccan husband to Ireland. Does he have to apply for "Visa D Join EEA national" or "EU Treaty Rights"? I'm also worried about relationship history because for Irish it seems very easy to say your marriage is faked. Did somebody get the refusal because of RH? Does anybody know how many meetings should be done before marriage? Did somebody get the refusal because of previous visa refusals? My husband already has several visa refusals from other EU countries. Do you think Irish will refuse us? Irish also require my husband to show economical, social or professional ties to his home country. If he is jobless what can he show? Do you think it will lead our application to refusal?
Any experiences would be helpful.

[yustynne]

Isn't here anybody who could advice me? Nobody applied for a spouse visa?

[archigabe]

Yes, he would have to apply for the 'Join EEA Spouse D Visa'.
You would need to have a documented relationship history.
For a join spouse visa he would not need to show economic ties to his home country.

[meats]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#294254

[agniukas]

i see someone is there very desperate to go to ANY country...
info on irish visas is here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ir ... nformation
they do check RH. you would need the proof of your relationship before and after the marriage, letters, photos, etc.
my understanding would be that if you want to bring your husband to Ireland, you yourself should be established here. meaning you are living and working in ireland yourself for some time. you will have to proof that you can support your husband while in ireland, especially if he is unemployed and has no financial resources back home.
finding a job in ireland in current economic climate may be tough.

[agniukas]

more info here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... EU_Citizen

[laulipau]

Hum... smells fishy!

[yustynne]

Does somebody know how much income i have to show a month or a year in Ireland in order to bring my husband? How much money do i have to show in my bank account?

[agniukas]

they are going to ask for a 6 month bank statement, and any recent large amount money transfers into the account will get the bells ringing. they will check the payslips and any earnings you get to see whether it is compatable with your bank statement... not sure of the actual amount in the bank needed. but i think it is important to show that you have a constant income and not just some savings which can disappear very fast especially with irish prices.

[yustynne]

they are going to ask for a 6 month bank statement, and any recent large amount money transfers into the account will get the bells ringing. they will check the payslips and any earnings you get to see whether it is compatable with your bank statement... not sure of the actual amount in the bank needed. but i think it is important to show that you have a constant income and not just some savings which can disappear very fast especially with irish prices.

Yeah, so it means no large amount of money transfered into my account and out of my account. I'll keep in mind! Well, that's for sure that nobody will transfer money into my account but i may decide to send some money to my relatives or to my husband from time to time but by Western Union and surely if it touches my husband Western Union will be given to Irish as an accompaniment of other documents. I think it's right, isn't it?
Well, agniukas, do you live in Ireland? Are you Lithuanian? Are you also married to non-EU national?

[yustynne]

Does anybody know what income a month or a year is required for an employee (EU national) as to apply for non-EU Spouse Join EEA National Visa?

[Ben]

Does anybody know what income a month or a year is required for an employee (EU national) as to apply for non-EU Spouse Join EEA National Visa?

€1.

[agniukas]

but you have to prove that you can support your husband and yourself without accessing public funds....

[ca.funke]

Does anybody know what income a month or a year is required for an employee (EU national) as to apply for non-EU Spouse Join EEA National Visa?

Article 7

Right of residence for more than three months

1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the
territory of another Member State for a period of longer than
three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member
State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family
members not to become a burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State during their period of
residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover
in the host Member State; or

(c) — are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accre-
dited or financed by the host Member State on the basis
of its legislation or administrative practice, for the prin-
cipal purpose of following a course of study, including
vocational training; and
— have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the
host Member State and assure the relevant national
authority, by means of a declaration or by such equiva-
lent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient
resources for themselves and their family members not
to become a burden on the social assistance system of
the host Member State during their period of residence;
or

(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union
citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a),
(b) or (c).

2. The right of residence provided for in paragraph 1 shall
extend to family members who are not nationals of a Member
State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen in the host
Member State, provided that such Union citizen satisfies the
conditions referred to in paragraph 1(a), (b) or (c).

Article 14

Retention of the right of residence

1. Union citizens and their family members shall have the
right of residence provided for in Article 6, as long as they do
not become an unreasonable burden on the social assistance
system of the host Member State.

2. Union citizens and their family members shall have the
right of residence provided for in Articles 7, 12 and 13 as long
as they meet the conditions set out therein.
In specific cases where there is a reasonable doubt as to
whether a Union citizen or his/her family members satisfies the
conditions set out in Articles 7, 12 and 13, Member States may
verify if these conditions are fulfilled. This verification shall not
be carried out systematically.

3. An expulsion measure shall not be the automatic conse-
quence of a Union citizen's or his or her family member's
recourse to the social assistance system of the host Member
State.

From what I understand, the EU-citizen simply needs to be employed (Article 7, section 1a). A family-member can join without any further conditions (Article 7, section 1d).

The "unreasonable burden on the social assistance system" (Article 14, section 1) only refers to Article 6, which regulates visits ("Right of residence for up to three months"), not permanent stays as per Article 7 ("Right of residence for more than three months").

I have no clue if this interpretation is correct

[Ben]

Indeed, Christian.

If you are a worker you have the same rights to "public funds" as a national of the host Member State would.

[agniukas]

however, ireland has a rule of 2 years habitual residence in the state before you are entitled to claim any social assistance from the state.

[Ben]

however, ireland has a rule of 2 years habitual residence in the state before you are entitled to claim any social assistance from the state.

Sorry agniukas, but this isn't quite correct. You do not have to be resident in Ireland for two years in order to be considered habitually resident for social welfare purposes.

Please see below:

The presumption in Section 246 does not mean that an applicant is automatically considered to be habitually resident in the State because he or she has been in Ireland (or another part of the Common Travel Area) for 2 years or more.

The onus is always on applicants to provide sufficient evidence to support their claims for a social welfare payment.

Neither does it mean that an applicant can be automatically considered to be "not habitually resident" because he or she has not resided here for 2 years. In all cases it is imperative to base any such decision on the factors listed at (a) to (e) above as habitual residence cannot be determined by reference to a period of time alone - see Part 5 for a fuller treatment of these factors.

Additionally:

In relation to EU nationals who have resided in the State for less than 5 years, different provisions may apply according to the person's circumstances and the type of claim, as follows:-

Family Benefits:

Child Benefit is classified under EC law as a Family Benefit. One Parent Family Payment and Guardian's Payment (Non Contributory) are also classified as Family Benefits with effect from 5 May 2005 (Regulations 1408/71 and 574/72 as amended by 647/2005).

Family Benefits are payable to a person who qualifies for EU migrant worker status in respect of dependents who are either habitually resident in Ireland or habitually resident in another EEA State.

Therefore

(a) any EEA citizen who is currently employed or self-employed here or in receipt of Irish Jobseeker's Benefit, does not have to satisfy the habitual residence condition in order to receive one of these Family Benefit payments. (Note: Payment of Jobseeker's Benefit exported from another country is not included for this purpose)

(b) any non EEA national, who has previously worked in another EEA State, and is currently employed or self-employed in the State, and

* is legally resident i.e. holds a current residence permit
* is lawfully employed in accordance with a work permit where so required and in accordance with the terms of his/her residence permit
* is subject to Irish PRSI
* whose dependants currently reside within Ireland OR within another EEA State does not have to satisfy the habitual residence condition in order to receive one of the above payments which are classified as Family Benefits.

[agniukas]

benifa, i think that the quotes are only relative for the family benefits. i don't think that this family would qualify for any of those anyway. sounds like a newly wed family, no kids (they were even asking how many meetings they need to prove the relationship).
jobseekers benefit / allowance automatically would mean that the EU national is not working or does not have enough financial income to support him/herself and the spouse.
i think in relation to work permit holders who want to get their dependants into the country, their income has to be higher than FIS limit for the household. but FIS is the income for those who have kids, so not sure how that works. But basically they have to be above the certain threshold.

[yustynne]

I'm interetested if there are any non-EU people who have their EU spouses living in Ireland and have applied for a visa to join their EU spouses in Ireland! I would like to know how your experiences were. How much did you have to wait for a visa or are you still waiting for one? What is the scenario of all visa application? Were you interviewed a lot? What questions did they have?
If you don't want to write here so you can simply drop me some lines to PM.
I'm really so much waiting for your helpful information!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

i see someone is there very desperate to go to ANY country...
info on irish visas is here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ir ... nformation
they do check RH. you would need the proof of your relationship before and after the marriage, letters, photos, etc.
my understanding would be that if you want to bring your husband to Ireland, you yourself should be established here. meaning you are living and working in ireland yourself for some time. you will have to proof that you can support your husband while in ireland, especially if he is unemployed and has no financial resources back home.
finding a job in ireland in current economic climate may be tough.

This is not correct. You do not need to provide documentation of relationship history if you are married. If they suspect in a specific case that there is a marriage of convenience, then they can ask for additional information.

They can also not ask for financial information.

[yustynne]

i see someone is there very desperate to go to ANY country...
info on irish visas is here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Ir ... nformation
they do check RH. you would need the proof of your relationship before and after the marriage, letters, photos, etc.
my understanding would be that if you want to bring your husband to Ireland, you yourself should be established here. meaning you are living and working in ireland yourself for some time. you will have to proof that you can support your husband while in ireland, especially if he is unemployed and has no financial resources back home.
finding a job in ireland in current economic climate may be tough.

This is not correct. You do not need to provide documentation of relationship history if you are married. If they suspect in a specific case that there is a marriage of convenience, then they can ask for additional information.

They can also not ask for financial information.

Hello,
The problem is that if we apply from Morocco there is no Irish emabssy. My husband has to go to Irish consulate (it doesn't deal with visa issues), sign application, give all documents, pay 100 Euros and the officer will send them to Irish embassy in Egypt. Of course, they don't ask anything in Irish consulate since it's not their business as they care how to take all documents and send out to Egypt. However, if in Egypt they see that some documents are lacking so it will grant a refusal. They don't have time to phone from Egypt or from Ireland to ask for additional documents. It's not their business. You don't provide documents they need, they simply give a refusal. I don't think it would be a good idea to enclose only marriage certificate without all evidences we had any relationships before marriage especially when Irish care so much how many times people met before marriage. If it was only Internet relationship before marriage and no meeting it must lead to direct refusal. So if i don't enclose evidences they may think insufficient documentation. For them very easy to say.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you are an EU citizen, why is your husband paying 100 euros? It should be free. Is there more detail we should know? Is he applying as the spouse of an EU citizen?

[yustynne]

Yeah, we are thinking to apply for a join spouse EEA/EU visa. He is a spouse of EU national. However, as there is no Irish embassy in Morocco and Irish consulates don't deal with visas they got an agreement with Irish embassy in Egypt that Moroccans applying for Irish visa can send their documents via post to Egypt per one of those Irish consulates. It is truth that visa is for free but an applicant must pay 100 Euro post fee. If he doesn't accept to pay, it means that Irish consulate won't be able to send the documents to Egypt. In this case the applicant can travel to Egypt by himself and apply directly at embassy. Notice: Moroccans need a visa to enter Egypt plus much money for travel tickets and other stuffs. It doesn't worth.