FLR(M) or EEA2 for EEA family permit/Residence Document?

[gt2080]

Hi,

I am a Chinese student and have got married with my French girlfriend last week. We got the Certificate Of Approval for marriage in October with a confirm letter which said after we get married I need to “Use Form FLR(M) to apply for an extension of stay in the United Kingdom as the spouse (husband or wife) or unmarried partner of a person present and settled here. “ This would charge 335 or 500 pounds.

But the other specification on their website said,

“What is an EEA family permit?

An EEA family permit is a form of entry clearance (like a visa) that you are given, free of charge, so members of your family who are not EEA nationals can travel to the United Kingdom.

You must apply for an EEA family permit in the country in which your non-EEA family member is living, to the nearest British Embassy, High Commission or other British Diplomatic Post that can issue entry clearance (see 'How to get more information').

Your non-EEA family members should apply for EEA family permits well before the date they want to travel to the United Kingdom.”

It is free to get a EEA family permit.

Can I apply for EEA family permit in UK? Or I have to spend the 500 pounds?

Thanks a lot.

Julian

[John]

As you say :-

spouse (husband or wife) or unmarried partner of a person present and settled here

-: which begs the question, if your French wife settled in the UK?

How long has your wife (as he will be) been living in the UK? And she is working in the UK?

[gt2080]

Hi, John:
Thanks for your quick reply.
My French wife has lived in UK for ten years. She is working in UK. It is really a little bit expensive to spend 500 pounds for a visa. Any suggestion for my visa extension? Do you think I need to go to the Home Office to renew my visa with my wife? Or it is better to do that by myself.
By the way, who can apply for the EEA family permit? Only those people who are not in UK?
Many thanks.

Julian

[John]

OK Julian, let's consider your options.

Your wife is a French citizen and has lived in the UK for 10 years and works here. Accordingly, if she has not already got it, she is entitled to Indefinite Leave to Remain ("ILR"). She would get that by completing forms EEA1 and EEA3. Once she has ILR in her passport she is considered to be "settled" in the UK.

So (and assuming your wife has ILR) you could apply for a spouse visa. This wuld cost either £335 by post or £500 in person at a PEO. One advantage this would give you over the alternative mentoned below is that two year's later you could apply for ILR.

Alternatively, with or without your wife having ILR, you could apply for an EEA Family Permit ... cost FREE! The downside is that you will not be able to get ILR until four years after you get the EEA Family Permit .. two year's later than the alternative mentioned above.

Your rights under these two alternatives? A spouse visa would give you the ability to live and work in the UK, and not require a Work Permit to work. An EEA Family Permit will give you the same rights (in the UK) as possessed by your French wife .... and that means the right to live and work here.

It might come down to this? Would your wife like British Citizenship? If so a year after getting ILR she would be entitled to apply. Then after she gets that, hey you will be married to a British Citizen! Thus, on your facts, you would be able to apply for your own naturalisation as soon as you have your ILR in your passport .... just over two years time (assuming by then you will have been in the UK legally for at least three years) ... or four years time. It would come down to whether you want to pay £335/£500 or NIL!

[gt2080]

Hi, John:

Still four questions:

1. If I apply for the spouse visa, do I and my wife need to go to Home Office to renew my visa together? Or I can do that myself?

2. If I get the spouse visa can I apply for the residence document further?

3. If I want to apply for the family permit, can I apply for it by going to Home Office in person? Or I have to do that by post? I hate to submit the application by post. It would take too long time.

4. How long will the family permit be valid for?

Sorry about asking so many questions.

Thank you very much.

Julian

[John]

Using your numbering :-

1. I emphasise that in order for you to get a spouse visa your wife needs to be "settled" in the UK. That is, she needs ILR in her French passport. Has she already got that? Or would she need to apply for it?
   
   As regards your question, it would be possible to make your spouse visa application in person at a PEO ... cost £500 .... or alternatively, apply by post ... cost £335.
2. In the last month of validity of that two-year spouse visa you would need to apply for ILR. Again the cost would be £500 or £335, dependent upon how you apply .... or rather, it must be said, whatever are the fee levels at that time.
3. No, an application for an EEA Family Permit would need to be made by post. It is not possible to apply for these in person.
   
   Any particular reason to have objections to postal applications? Is it just the fact that such applications take longer? Whatever, all EEA/EU matters need to be dealt with by post. So if you wife does not just have ILR in her passport the applications for that would need to be made by post. Expect such EU/EEA applications to take say three months.
4. I think that these days the initial one is for 6 months, and the second one is for five years.

You have not commented upon my question about whether your wife would want to apply for British Citizenship. The answer to that question might well determine your course of action.

[JAJ]

You have not commented upon my question about whether your wife would want to apply for British Citizenship. The answer to that question might well determine your course of action.

A further point of interest is that after one year of marriage the original poster may be able to apply for French citizenship (without residence being required in France), although it's not clear what 'unofficial' requirements exist for this in terms of language ability or other attributes.

If the wife does want to apply for British citizenship, then the regular spouse visa route is preferable as it gives the original poster a much quicker route to British citizenship himself. Even if she doesn't want to go for citizenship, a regular spouse visa gives him a quicker route to ILR and more protection in the meantime than the EEA permit.

A final point to consider - if they are planning on having children born in the UK - is that it's essential for at least one partner to have at least ILR (or British citizenship) if the children are to be British citizens.

Looking at all this in totality, the option of the French spouse obtaining ILR and then sponsoring for a normal spouse visa seems to be the better one.

[gt2080]

Hi, John:

My wife didn't apply for residence permit and "ILR".

If I want to apply for family permit, how to apply for it? Which form should I use? how long will it take?

Many thanks.

Julian

[John]

If you go to this IND webpage you will see links to lots of forms.

Towards the bottom of the page there are forms whose names start with EEA. Your wife will need to submit an EEA3 in order to get her ILR. You will need to submit an EEA2.

That IND webpage ... extremely slow in loading .... patience is needed! The same applies to the forms.

Both applications could be posted together. How long? Postings on this Board indicate it could take three months.

[gt2080]

Hi, John:
Thanks for your reply. Many thanks... : )
Have a nice day.
Julian

[Kayalami]

John,

Appreciate you may have covered this but is not the case the OP would get ILR together with his EU spouse (where he is listed as her dependent on the relevant EEA form)? This eliminates the 'standard' 2 year spousal period and all associated fees give that EEA based applications are free.

[John]

Kayalami, I totally agree. The OP will, as you say, get "just" a residence permit, effectively an EEA Family Permit, and after having that for four years could apply for their own ILR.

Alternatively, as I see it, when the French wife has her ILR there would be nothing to stop an application for a spouse visa being made. That would shorten the delay for ILR to just two years from that point in time.

I think the main point here is that when the French wife completes her EEA3 she will not list him as a dependent. That is because he is not an EEA national.

The structure of the new EEA forms differs quite a bit with the old EEC ones.

[gt2080]

Hi, JAJ and Kayalami:

Thanks for your discussion and suggestion as well. : )

By the way, I would apply for residence document by using Form EEA2 and my wife would apply for residence permit by using Form EEA1. We could submit both two forms together.

Julian

[John]

As your wife has already been in the UK for at least four years she should use form EEA3 (rather than EEA1) to apply for her ILR. Obviously she will need to submit supporting evidence which confirms that she has been exercising her treaty rights in the UK for at least four years. The EEA3 makes it clear how to do that.

You should indeed complete an EEA2.