Problematic Application for ILR for wife from outside the UK

[rsl]

I am a British Citizen by birth that has been working & living in the Arabian Gulf for the last 12 years. I married an Indian National (born in Saudi, lived in Gulf for 2 generations) 11 years ago & we have 5 children aged between 3 months & 10 years. All of our kids have British passports issued here. Obviously - it's not a fake marriage!

Anyway, I lost my job in Dubai in August and have not been able to find a job since & have really reached the end of our savings - the cost of living here is extremely high & our residence permits here are about to be cancelled. I am faced with no alternative other than to return home to England to settle but I do not have a residence there in my name or a job. All of my wife's relatives are resident in KSA & UAE and she will not have the right to remain in the UAE. She has no relatives in India that she can stay with & we have 5 British kids. Our kids & I also do not have visas (or funds) to stay in India either.

What advice can you give us about returning to the UK - obviously for me to return to the UK with 5 kids - including a 3 month baby alone - while sending my wife to a hotel in India would be an almost impossible situation.

BTW - I've been browsing through the forum all morning - I must send my thanks to all the moderators & contributors for this indispensable resource to what can seem a confusing topic. Great Work!

[andyb123]

the immigration rules are constructed specifically to try to prevent jobless families turning up and trying to claim benefits, you're in for a tough ride

your best bet would have been to come to the UK BEFORE you ran out of savings so that you could show that you had somewhere to live and an income before applying for a spouse visa

you could try submitting an application anyway on compassionate grounds, but according to the current immigration rules you need to show that you have accommodation suitable for the number of people AND that you can support them all without recourse to public funds

in a situation like yours they will sometimes accept 3rd party assistance (e.g. your family in the UK?) as long as it can be shown that you and/or your wife stand a good chance of obtaining employment, but you would still need to show that you have access to living conditions that do not breach the overcrowding laws for housing

if she's 2nd gen saudi, why is she an indian national? and why does she not have any family she can stay with in saudi or UAE?

[rsl]

The issue I had was that all of our residence visas would have been cancelled if I had left & then where would my wife had gone? Where would the kids have gone - with me to the UK without their mother? Also, I was waiting on another job offer that didn't materialise.

It's not really a straightforward situation, mainly because my wife has nationality of a country (India) that she doesn't really have a connection with. Unfortunately that's the case of 1000s that are born & might even be 2nd or 3rd generation residents in the Gulf.

I understand that the law quite rightly tries to inhibit 'free-loaders' taking advantage of the UK's benefits system but I have never claimed anything in 20 years of my working life as a British citizen.

Anyway, I have an appointment at the local British Embassy to discuss the situation and will appeal on compassionate grounds.

Does anyone have any idea whether having 5 British children from my wife be considered - I know that in some other European countries - their immigration rules explicitly cater for these situations so as not to split up genuine families.

[mochyn]

IMHO I think that you should come back to the UK with the children and apply for housing in the area where you wish to live.
There is an automatic right to house those who are homeless although you may be put into a hotel first before being allocated a house.The local council will pay for rent and council tax, then claim jobseekers allowance.
I seriously think that you will not have a problem with immigration but unless you have savings you will have a hard time paying for air fares and then visa fees for your wife plus supporting your wife while she lives in India.
The British embassy will not give financial help, they will contact family who are supposed to help.
You will need to find work to support your family and these are hard times we live in, you need to be lucky.
I hope that the time spent apart from your wife will not be long and too painful

Been there, done that

[batleykhan]

IMHO I think that you should come back to the UK with the children and apply for housing in the area where you wish to live.
There is an automatic right to house those who are homeless although you may be put into a hotel first before being allocated a house.The local council will pay for rent and council tax, then claim jobseekers allowance.
I seriously think that you will not have a problem with immigration

I am sorry Mochyn but I disagree with you slightly

Your suggestion sounds to easy, but the reality is completely different.

You have to remember that in order for the OP to get his wife and kids in the country in the first place, he needs to get them a visa. In order to get them a visa, he has to show that he can support them financially and accomadate them. How is he going to do that when he is not in the country, not working and dont have anywhere to live?.

My advise would be for the OP to come here first, find himself rented accomadation, find himself a job and then to call his family over. I am afraid for him and his family, but it is going to be damn difficult.

He will have to leave his family with his relatives in Dubai. Thye will have to look after them and support them untill such time he can bring them over here to the UK.

Remember the only way the OP is going to get his family here, is that he can show to the appropiate authorities that he can support and accomodate them without recourse to public funds.

Sorry....!!!!

[ElenaW]

IMHO I think that you should come back to the UK with the children and apply for housing in the area where you wish to live.
There is an automatic right to house those who are homeless although you may be put into a hotel first before being allocated a house.The local council will pay for rent and council tax, then claim jobseekers allowance.
I seriously think that you will not have a problem with immigration

I am sorry Mochyn but I disagree with you slightly

Your suggestion sounds to easy, but the reality is completely different.

You have to remember that in order for the OP to get his wife and kids in the country in the first place, he needs to get them a visa. In order to get them a visa, he has to show that he can support them financially and accomadate them. How is he going to do that when he is not in the country, not working and dont have anywhere to live?.

My advise would be for the OP to come here first, find himself rented accomadation, find himself a job and then to call his family over. I am afraid for him and his family, but it is going to be damn difficult.

He will have to leave his family with his relatives in Dubai. Thye will have to look after them and support them untill such time he can bring them over here to the UK.

Remember the only way the OP is going to get his family here, is that he can show to the appropiate authorities that he can support and accomodate them without recourse to public funds.

Sorry....!!!!

Oh geez, this is going to be really difficult especially when the OP has 5 children. I'm sorry, that is a really tight spot. I wish you all the best in finding a job and proper accomodation.

[Danbrix]

You have to remember that in order for the OP to get his wife and kids in the country in the first place, he needs to get them a visa. ...

I don't know if it changes anything but his children don't need a visa as they are all British citizens.

[mrlookforward]

as he has made clear, his kids have british passports, so the only issue here is his wifes visa. he has put himself into trouble by leaving things for the last moment. had he thought about it few months ago, he would have easily sorted out his situation.

[ElenaW]

as he has made clear, his kids have british passports, so the only issue here is his wifes visa. he has put himself into trouble by leaving things for the last moment. had he thought about it few months ago, he would have easily sorted out his situation.

Yes but he still needs to financially support those 5 kids, regardless of whether or not they're british and that's hard to do.

[andyb123]

There is an automatic right to house those who are homeless although you may be put into a hotel first before being allocated a house.The local council will pay for rent and council tax, then claim jobseekers allowance.

If he hasn't kept his NIC up to date whilst living abroad, he may not be entitled to any benefits such as jobseekers.

[Wanderer]

Agree with above, OP needs to get here and get a very good job and accom. ASAP.

I would imagine the OP will need to have good wodge of surplus income to pass the finance test, I am assuming it will apply even though the kids are British.

Not sure of the figures but I'd imagine it would be in the region of £400 a week after standing bills which is a lot to find.

Hang on, aren't we missing sth too, the OP's wife can apply for ILE although now I've said it I can't see how it will help at the moment...

[mochyn]

hey guys, I think you are missing something here.
The guy is British and his 5 kids have British passports.
The UK has a duty to house him and his children.
The UK has duty to feed him and his children and even if he is not eligible for jobseekers allowance, he can get income support.
When he has found accomodation for himself and his children, he can apply for a spousal visa for his wife and the UK will grant it as he has been married for over 10 years.As he has already stated the UK will not keep the mother separated from her children.
In this case immigration is not the issue , finance is.
The fact that he may not have a job and is on benefits will not be a difficulty for him for the UK to grant a spousal visa.
The UK will grant a spousal visa for those on benefits but will not allow further benefits to be claimed until the wife gets her ILR

[Danbrix]

Not sure of the figures but I'd imagine it would be in the region of £400 a week after standing bills which is a lot to find.

A UK couple with five kids may be entitled to (weekly)

Income Support: £100.95
Tax Credit: £235.55
Child Benefit: £72.80

Also housing and council tax benefits may be claimed.

[mochyn]

nice one Danbrix, was looking for those figures although the figure needs to be adjusted as he will be classed as single until his wife joins him so I think he will be able to claim £64.80 not £100.95 yet

Also remember if the guy has 5 kids then he will not be looking for work until his wife arrives unless someone looks after them FOC

[Danbrix]

nice one Danbrix, was looking for those figures

Also remember if the guy has 5 kids then he will not be looking for work until his wife arrives unless someone looks after them FOC

mochyn,

The fact that he doesn't have a job would mean he will not meet the minimum income support test. i.e his total income sits on the threshold. I am not an expert on this but he needs to have some sort of job so that he can stand a chance. In which case working tax credit may also be claimed. And of course part of his housing and council tax benefit may also be paid depending on his wage.

But in practice this would be very difficult for the family. Having to look after five kids (one of them 3 months old and probably still on breast feeding) and work at the same time is going to be tough.

[Wanderer]

I'd say the OP's best option is this, unsavoury as it may seem....

1. Return to UK alone.

2. Wife and Kids to got wherever they can where there is support, OP mentioned KSA, temporarily.

3. OP gets job and builds a home/life, would need at least a four bed place based on overcrowding rules.

4. OP takes a long hol and sends for kids, then can claim WTC/CTC and childcare allowance. Holiday to arrange stuff!

5. Apply for Spouse visa or ILE for wife.

6. Live happily ever after!

It's an invidious situation, gonna take strife and a lot of buggering about to sort, but it can be done. Needs to be planned.

If OP has worked in UAE, he must be reasonably qualified and employable, tho having said that UK job market is still bad and getting worse. However one must do what one can, and a reasonable job plus an evening job for as long a needs must I think OP can do it.

[batleykhan]

But in practice this would be very difficult for the family. Having to look after five kids (one of them 3 months old and probably still on breast feeding) and work at the same time is going to be tough.

Thats why I suggest he leaves his kids with their mother for a few months till he has sorted himself out here and then call them over ( I forgot his kids were British)

[mochyn]

As a relative newcomer to these forums I do not wish to upset the apple cart but I respectfully disagree with Wanderer and Batleykhan.
In this current economic climate and due to the fact that the OP's has been out of the UK for many years, he will find it very difficult to find work.
If he leaves the kids behind and does not find work he will only be entitled to £64.80 income support plus single mans HB.
No way can he find accomodation such as a 4 bedroom house on the above mentioned money
IMHO he has to bring the kids home and rely on the state to help him
If he tries to get a job first then the family reunion will take a long time as the accommodation costs will eat up all his salary

[mochyn]

Also he states his residence permits are about to be cancelled so it is either UK or India for the kids
They would be better off here

[Wanderer]

As a relative newcomer to these forums I do not wish to upset the apple cart but I respectfully disagree with Wanderer and Batleykhan.
In this current economic climate and due to the fact that the OP's has been out of the UK for many years, he will find it very difficult to find work.
If he leaves the kids behind and does not find work he will only be entitled to £64.80 income support plus single mans HB.
No way can he find accomodation such as a 4 bedroom house on the above mentioned money
IMHO he has to bring the kids home and rely on the state to help him
If he tries to get a job first then the family reunion will take a long time as the accommodation costs will eat up all his salary

I do agree but I'm not sure what would happen if he turned up at immigration with five kids and no means of support. I think ur right, he'd get something, but it will be a shithole in a bad area, I have five kids too and was nearly in the same hole, except I was wholly UK based, they found me a house in worst area of Dumfries full of druggies and the dregs of society so I said no, was easier for me to sort myself out than the OP, but no way would I recommend being housed by the council with kids, really, u might get lucky but I doubt it.

OP has to provide as their father and I'm sure he knows that, a few months apart and he can do it. India would be the best bet for wife and kids, low cost of living, would be an adventure for the kids I'm sure, they r resilient, it's us parents that panic and worry.

BTW I did it, I didn't resort to a council shithole and now we are fine. I implore the OP not to consider that.

Primarily, the OP has to establish himself and it's best he do that alone.

[mochyn]

Agreed , council housing may well be in a rough place but surely it depends where he wants to settle
OP is in a dilemma.
Between a rock and a hard place
Whatever he chooses is going to be painful

[batleykhan]

What is wrong with OP getting some decent rented accomadationin an area where he likes rather than a Council house given to him by the Local authority probally in a shithole area just like Wanderer has stated.

If he is going to be claiming housing benefit, does it then matter if he lives in a council house or a rented accomadation,after all the Council will be paying his rent anyway.

The OP hasnt helped himself by leaving things till the last minute and thats why he now has problem.

If I was in his sittuation, I would leave my wife and kids with her family, whilst I come here, graft hard and then bring the wife and kids over.

after all this is how Asian people did in the 60's and 70's when they first arrived in UK.

[rsl]

Sorry that I haven't posted anything else after all of the advice given - I stopped receiving email alerts after the second reply & didn't realise that there was so much activity on the thread!

Anyway - as I said, our residence visas in the UAE are about to be cancelled, so we don't have the option of leaving my wife in the UAE with the kids. Also, it is impossible to get a visa to stay with her parents in KSA - I have explored that route already. Regarding sending my wife to India with the kids - that really would be difficult as neither of us have relatives there & the children also need visas to stay in India.

Regarding leaving things too late, I respectfully differ with batleykhan & mrlookforward - I was actually given a good job offer in the UAE a month after losing my previous one, that would have started at the end of November - I just had to hang on for sometime for that to start but unfortunately it didn't materialise. I didn't look into coming back to the UK with all the hassle that I'd have to go through because I wouldn't have needed to with the job. I really wasn't considering coming back to the UK before now.

Anyway - I am still really confused about what to do. I had my appointment at the embassy. They told me to apply from here and it might be referred to the UK. I asked as the non-refundable fee is quite high, especially in my financial situation (3750 UAE Dirhams! £640) I wanted to know how likely it was that it would be granted and how long would it take? I was told that we really don't have a clue for both of those questions.

I was then asked whether I'd consider moving to India instead as it's cheaper there! I mean really, is that the advice UK embassy staff should give to a British Citizen (by birth even) with 5 British kids??? Don't I have a right to live in my own country with my kids & their mother?

Sorry if I sound a bit peeved - I'm really in a difficult situation but I do appreciate the advice being given from this forum.

[mochyn]

Of course you have the automatic right as a British citizen to live here with your children.
The problem is that as a foreign national your wife does not have the same rights.
You need to come here before your wife to sort out Home Office requirements for her to enter on a spousal visa.
Your choice is either to come alone or bring the children, either way will not be easy and I have already stated my views which are not supported by others.
Is easy in hindsight to say what you should have done but life is sometimes not so cut and dry.
As for the British embassy if you marry a foreign national then a stock answer to avoid the Human Rights angle''right to a family life'' is that you don't have to live in the UK, you can live in your spouses country.
Good luck with whatever you decide