How to retrieve passport from the Immigration Service?

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:21 pm

Hello,

Following the approval under the HSMP I need to leave the UK and reapply for the EC.

My passport was taken by the Immigration Service in 1998. Why - don't know. I had an interview at the police station with an Immigration Officer following allegations from someone that I had obtained my EC by deception. No action was taken and all the allegations dropped straight after the interview. But the passport was taken away.

I was initially told that it was sent to Croydon for the review of my case. A note was placed on my Croydon file that the passport was taken by the IO. But in fact my passport has never been on Croydon file. I presume it is kept in archives at my local Immigration Service office.

How can I retrieve my passport? Shall I give a call to my local Immigration Service branch (I know their number and the name of the IO concerned) and ask them to find it or shall I ask someone to deal with this on my behalf?

Your opinion will be much appreciated.

Thank you

Jeff

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:30 pm

I don't mean any offence but you've been in this country without a passport for 8 years ? That sounds incredible. How have you survived ?

Depending upon your nationality surely it would be easier to just ask for a new passport from your country of origin. I hate to say this but the odds of you getting your passport back from the immigration service after 8 years are not high. Do you have a receipt from them for your passport ?

I am almost certain they are not allowed to just keep someone's passport for 8 years - remember that passports are the property of the country of issuance and the immigration service do not have a right to just confiscate it without any reason.

Post by **John** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:30 pm

Jeff posted :-

Shall I give a call to my local Immigration Service branch (I know their number and the name of the IO concerned) and ask them to find it or shall I ask someone to deal with this on my behalf?

That is indeed what I think you should do! Especially after the HSMP approval you mention in another topic today. Many congratulations!

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:33 pm

lemess wrote:I don't mean any offence but you've been in this country without a passport for 8 years ? That sounds incredible. How have you survived ?

Exactly! Good question, isn't it? But I am a survivor.

What do you need a passport for? Only for travelling abroad. I have not been asked for a passport anywhere or where I was asked I was showing my UK driving licence. You could get any form of employment without a passport up until May 2004. The UK Driving Licence is sufficient proof of ID. So what is the passport for?!

Depending upon your nationality surely it would be easier to just ask for a new passport from your country of origin.

Sorry, but no. Those idiots take 3 months to supply a replacement plus lots of other bureaucracy involved including the report from the police or HO that they lost it. Up until now I could not approach them for the reasons I am sure you will understand.

I hate to say this but the odds of you getting your passport back from the immigration service after 8 years are not high.

You bet or what? They are squarely responsible for that.

Do you have a receipt from them for your passport ?

I don't have a receipt but the IND file confirms that it was taken and who took it. So there will be pointless for them to claim they hadn't taken it.

I am almost certain they are not allowed to just keep someone's passport for 8 years - remember that passports are the property of the country of issuance and the immigration service do not have a right to just confiscate it without any reason.

You bet again?! Surely you are right and it makes sense. However, when it comes to my immigration history nothing makes any sense at all. Having lost 2 applications makes no sense. Having been giving wrong information to my solicitors does not make sense either, does it? So what kind of sense are we talking about here?

bbdivo · Post by **bbdivo** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:13 pm

Jeff Albright wrote:
Depending upon your nationality surely it would be easier to just ask for a new passport from your country of origin.
Sorry, but no. Those idiots take 3 months to supply a replacement plus lots of other bureaucracy involved including the report from the police or HO that they lost it. Up until now I could not approach them for the reasons I am sure you will understand.

3 Months? Thats quick! My countrys embassy say no less than 6 months wait and thats when they have ink and booklets to print the passports with!

Lemess has some good points there, its been 8 years since they took your passport and they didnt give you a receipt of any sort (though you say they have on their file that they have your passport, so that'll work in your favour!) it could be mighty tough tracking your passport down, imagine how much paper work must have been processed in the last eight years! If you still have home office reference numbers etc, I'm sure that will help, though it will probably take a bit of time. Your documents are probably sitting in some deep filing system somewhere in the UK!

Good Luck!

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:31 pm

bbdivo wrote: 3 Months? Thats quick! My countrys embassy say no less than 6 months wait and thats when they have ink and booklets to print the passports with!

Bbdivo, thanks for your reply! None of these timescales is acceptable anyway because the HSMP approval is only valid for 3 bloody months! So if they have lost my passport then the only option available will be switching inside the country outside the Rules.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:43 am

Jeff, no offence mate, but both you and your story sound a bit dodgy. You don't mention how you got to the UK in the first place and what visa you were on here initially.

Conclusion: if you haven't had your passport in 8 years then the only logical conclusion is that you are an illegal immigrant as surely your initial visa must have expired by now and it would have been impossible for you to renew it without your passport. Therefore one can also logically conclude that your application for LTR will fail as they're not particularly keen on overstayers/illegal immigrants at the Home Office.

But Jeff, think about it.....do you really want to get your passport back from Croydon? Surely if (and that's a big if) they found it and gave it back to you, they would see that you are an illegal immigrant and detain you on the spot?

Either way mate, you're in a tight spot. Good luck to you.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:06 pm

Well, my story is irrelevant here. There is no dodge in it, rather - quite clear story.

The question is how to get hold of the passport. My passport is not in Croydon, as this is what had been confirmed to me.

What's the point of detaining (wasting public funds and time)? I am leaving the country at the end of the day. Moreover, whatever they think about me - it is what they have decided and not the truth of the matter. If I had time I would have pursued this matter further and found where my previous applications had gone but I have no time - I need to leave, return and start work in my professional field. As simple as that.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:16 pm

It is somewhat strange that you have not attempted to get your passport back for 8 years. Obviously individual circumstances vary but that aspect of your story does sound like it has a bit more than meets the eye to be honest. Most employers these days demand a passport or proof of your ability to work in the UK ( driving licences are no good) and you need passports for NI numbers etc. Also, the only way your entry clearance for the UK would not have expired since 1998 would have been if you had ILR in 1998 in which case you would not need to apply for HSMP now.
I suggest that if you want productive advice you should clarify your entire situation.

No offence but something Shakespeare said about the state of Denmark comes to mind in relation to the circumstances.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:31 pm

Jeff, I think you gave to accept the fact that you're not getting your passport back from the Home Office. If I was in your situation (and it's still not entirely clear what exactly that situation is) I would get a temporary passport from your country (given the 3 months you quote to get a new passport and your name, I would guess that you are probably South African) and go back to your home country. Hopefully you can apply for entry clearance from the British Embassy there with your HSMP approval letter and be back here in no time.

You will definitely need to go to a police station and report your passport as lost/stolen and get a police report in order to apply for a new passport.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:36 pm

There is nothing strange, that's the point!
Withdrawing passport means that any applications/claims to the HO will lapse. So what was the point of doing it until you get a solid ground under your feet or have something to fall back on?

I am not going to post every single detail from my immigration history - it is no one's business and also would take me days to write. There is nothing to hide, though. There has never been any form of twisting. It is very simple in its sense.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:45 pm

Obviously your immigration history is totally your business.
BUT l the point is you are asking for advice on a public forum on how to get your passport back without clarifying exactly why that has come about. How do you expect anyone to be able to give you a productive answer ?

If your case is indeed straightforward and there is no dodginess involved - you may find that writing to your MP may be a good option. If the passport is being kept because the IND have not been able to adjudicate for 8 years that is surely unacceptable and contacting them in the first instance and then following up using your MP may be a good option to expedite processing.

The reason you are seeing scepticism here is because although IND taking ages to make decisions is not unusual, for someone not to try to get their passport back and indeed not need it for 8 straight years is extremely unusual.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:47 pm

Dawie, that's more to the point, now, thanks.
This is what exactly I am going to do.
Do I have to personally turn up at a police station or is it possible for someone to do it for me?

Thanks.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:53 pm

I would imagine that you would have to go in person to report a lost/stolen passport to the police.

If you are indeed South African then here is the link to the page on the South African embassies website on how to get a new passport if your passport has been lost or stolen:

http://www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/loststolenppt.htm

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:14 pm

Dawie, thanks.
I am not South African, though.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:21 pm

Just how do you expect people to help if you won't even reveal your nationality ( something that you presumably share with millions of people ) ?

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:44 pm

But what the difference does it make?
I am talking here in relevance to a particular issue, stright to the point... There is absolutely no secret to what my nationality is... but it is simply not relevant.

MWazir · Post by **MWazir** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:26 pm

My 2 cents -

Since your passport has not been with you for 8 years - even assuming you get it in time to apply for HSMP - does your passport still have validity. My passport for example expires in 10 years from the date of it's issue. Is yours still valid?

Also, have you since starting this topic called up or approached any of places mentioned, i.e
- Calling the local Immigration Services.
- Approaching your local MP.
- Getting a police report for a lost passport.
- Approaching your embassy for a new passport.

Others in this topics have questioned why you didnt try to recover your passport all these years and you have been reluctant to share any information citing it as not relevant to the current topic. Thats entirely your call and fair enough if you ask me. Although the advise you get is going to be limited to only what you say and some of it is perhaps akin to throwing darts in the dark. Even without questioning the effort to retrieve your passport all these years, I still dont understand one point - You expect or hope for an HSMP approval because you applied for it, therefore you knew you needed your passport at some stage. Why didnt you try to get it back before applying for HSMP? Or did you think you have enough time to get your passport back and apply for FLR?

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:48 pm

Ok thanks for reply, I will answer it this way:

- Passport is already expired, however, if I get it back it would be easier for me to get a new one back in my country and also a temporary travel document from my Embassy (without any police reports). I will also be still admitted in my own country on expired passport. So there is a clear advantage of getting it back
- I did not ask for my passport back because all my previous applications to the HO would have been considered withdrawn, as I have already said.
- I filed a complaint to the IND in regard to the loss of my applications (I have recently found out that the second one was lost, too, the copy of that application is available and the recorded delivery receipt, as well) so if my complaint was successful there would have been a slim (very slim) chance of regularising my status in-country. This was another reason why I did not ask for my passport back. I do not have time to wait for the outcome of this complaint now - I must start my work as soon as possible. I believe it will be quicker to leave the UK and obtain the EC out of country.
- There was no way of knowing what the outcome of my HSMP application would have been. Here is another reason why I did not ask for my passport - what is the point? Now when I have the HSMP approval I have to get it back.

I hope it is clearer now.

What is the safest way of retrieving my passport? Contacting the Immigration Service directly or through someone?
This is the main question I would like to hear from you about.

Thank you for your consideration and attention to my topic.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:59 pm

Well Jeff, if there is nothing dodgy going on here, and everything is above board as you say, then you should have nothing to fear by either a) approaching the Home Office directly for your passport or b) filing a police report for a lost/stolen passport.

However when asking board members what is the "safest" way is to get your passport back does seem to imply that you fear something here.

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:26 pm

Dawie,

Thanks for reply.

The point is that administratively I am considered as an overstayer - thats the fact. Yes, it is true that I have not done anything wrong but the fact remains the same - my Croydon file is empty, meaning automatically that I am illegal. Yes, I have evidence that it is wrong but if they get hold of me, they will have to arrest me by law and put the mark on my immigration history (although they have not come yet to arrest me at home despite having all my details possibly due to being simply disorganised, but it does not mean it will not happen tomorrow).

There is a paragraph in the Immigration Act that says it is an offence to knowingly overstay BUT then it reverts its sense by saying that "there is no requirement that the person must have KNOWINGLY overstayed" - That means the most ridiculous thing I came across before in legislation of this country - you can be liable for an offence no matter if this was your fault or not (even if you never committed it)

Therefore i have to be careful and leave the UK without having any bad records put on my file that I have been removed.
This is what I am trying to prevent and this is why I am asking for your advice - how to do these things SAFELY? (there is no time to prove I am right, I only have 3 months before my HSMP letter expires - hope you understand).

Thank you.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:36 pm

Aah, ok, that makes sense now. In that case I would stay well away from the Home Office.

I really think your best bet is to go to your nearest police station, file a lost/stolen passport report and then go apply for a new/temporary passport from your embassy. I seriously doubt that you have anything to fear from going to the police as they do not tend to get involved with immigration issues.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:40 pm

Jeff Albright wrote: - Passport is already expired, however, if I get it back it would be easier for me to get a new one back in my country and also a temporary travel document from my Embassy (without any police reports). I will also be still admitted in my own country on expired passport.

If you need to leave the UK by air, bear in mind that many airlines will not permit you to travel on an expired passport. An expired passport contains no indication that a holder still holds the nationality of the country of issuance at the time of travel.

Immigration officers in your country may be able to confirm your citizenship as current based on their records but the airlines tend not to take that view especially after 9/11. So don't expect to be able to travel on an expired passport that easily.

Also, be aware that there is an immigration check at airports on departure these days. if you are unlucky they could inspect your passport there and in the absence of a valid visa etc. mark you as an overstayer. Happened to an American friend of mine who had overstayed by 2 days !

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:43 pm

Dawie,

Thanks. Now I think I am about to make a final decision, as you suggest...
Thanks again for your time reading my topic and your thoughts!

best wishes

Jeff

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:48 pm

lemess wrote: Also, be aware that there is an immigration check at airports on departure these days. if you are unlucky they could inspect your passport there and in the absence of a valid visa etc. mark you as an overstayer. Happened to an American friend of mine who had overstayed by 2 days !

By the way this is a valid point and I did query about this here before and also with others at a different board.
Please could you let me know when it happened? I heard from someone that they shortly introduced the exit immigration checks in July last year after terrorism in London and abandoned them 2 or 3 months later. Are they still there right now?

I have several people who confirmed there have been no checks recently.

Thanks

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How to retrieve passport from the Immigration Service?

How to retrieve passport from the Immigration Service?