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Urg Second extension Query(HSMP-Tier1 from Apr 09 to Apr10)

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, Administrator

jimmymcad
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Urg Second extension Query(HSMP-Tier1 from Apr 09 to Apr10)

Post by jimmymcad » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:29 pm

Hi Everyone,

Just amending my original points with my final thoughts here:-

People who needs to apply for second extension to qualify for ILR and if they have extended their stay from HSMP to Tier1 during Apr 2009 - Mar 2010, need to show Masters degree because at that time, Tier1 was following the Master degree rule. This is unfair to existing HSMP people, who already qualified via old rules. Can Senior people comments what to do in this case. That is why my degree is not giving me any point :(

Just one question regarding my Master's degree qualification.

I initially applied for HSMP, extended to Tier1(General).
Now due to my late arrival in UK for 2 months, i am short of 2 months by the time i will apply for ILR and hence need to apply for extension again.

When i applied HSMP and Extension application using my 2 years Master degree(after 2 years bachelor) was awarding me 30 points equivalent to bachelor degree.

But now when i try UKBIA point calculator, it is awarding me zero point for my master's degree in the extension application. This has create a panic to me. Though i do not require an extension right now, but later whenever i need to, i am not qualifying accordin to the UKBIA calculator. So checking with you guys?

Has the rule for extension been applied retrospectively for existing Tier1 applicants?

Please if anyone can comment.
Many thanks.
Last edited by jimmymcad on Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

jimmymcad
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pleae if some one reply

Post by jimmymcad » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:34 am

Hi, please if some one reply.....

manojk005
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Re: Extension Query

Post by manojk005 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:49 am

UKBA has derecognised some degree awarded by few UK based institutions. These are mainly PGD. If your one falls under this category then ....

Greenie
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Post by Greenie » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:55 am

what is your degree title exactly and where did you study?

pgaitonde
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Re: Extension Query

Post by pgaitonde » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:34 pm

If you have an HSMP approved letter then the rule is different for you..please check UKBA thoroughly..
jimmymcad wrote:Hi Everyone,

Just one question regarding my Master's degree qualification.

I initially applied for HSMP, extended to Tier1(General).
Now due to my late arrival in UK for 2 months, i am short of 2 months by the time i will apply for ILR and hence need to apply for extension again.

When i applied HSMP and Extension application using my 2 years Master degree(after 2 years bachelor) was awarding me 30 points equivalent to bachelor degree.

But now when i try UKBIA point calculator, it is awarding me zero point for my master's degree in the extension application. This has create a panic to me. Though i do not require an extension right now, but later whenever i need to, i am not qualifying accordin to the UKBIA calculator. So checking with you guys?

Has the rule for extension been applied retrospectively for existing Tier1 applicants?

Please if anyone can comment.
Many thanks.

jimmymcad
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Location: London
United Kingdom

Hi

Post by jimmymcad » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:09 pm

Thanks for replying, I have created a new thread to what i find in the guidance note:0 I am writing down that here too. But, yes i got an hsmp approved letter when I applied, but that was after 2006. Does that letter still help me? Ideally we should be considered under the old hsmp rule, anytime if we apply for extensions? Please correct me if i am wrong and senior member if comment please.

Hi All,

I have just found a horrible and frustrating thing on the home office guidance note as why my bachelor degree not awarding me any point.

As i have already extended to Tier1 General from HSMP (2+3), and i need further leave to remain to to complete my requirement for ILR as i am short of 2 months, and now if i apply for FLR, according to the guidance note, they would see under which rule i had submitted my application for Tier 1.

In my case, i got my HSMP using Bachelor degree and extended to Tier1 using my Bachelor Degree under the HSMP old rules, but now as I got approved on May 2009, they will follow that rule inplace between 2009-2010 for further extension. And At that time, master's degree rule was in place. Therefore now, i am not able to apply for further leave to remain, as my tier1 awarding date fall between 2009-2010.

Ideally they should follow the same rule for HSMP in our further extensions application. It is really unfair and i do not know what should i do. Though i have visa left till sep 2012.

But any expereince, moderator can put their comment would help.
Please if any one else has the same case, What is the best way to put forward our case.?

Regards,

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:23 pm

When did you apply for HSMP approval (date)? If after Nov'06, did you apply for entry clearance as HSMP migrant or as Tier 1 (General) migrant under the transitional arrangements? When did you apply for EC and what does the entry clearance endorsement (on the vignette) state - HSMP migrant or Tier 1 (General) migrant?

Reading this topic may also be useful.


regards

jimmymcad
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Thanks Sush for your reply.

Post by jimmymcad » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:55 pm

My initial HSMP was approved in July 2007. I applied for EC with passport along with that HSMP approval letter got it from 14th Sep 07 - 14th Sep 09.

At that time there was no Tier 1 Migrant visa, and i was granted initially for 2 years. In May 2009 i have applied for early extension under Tier 1 General and granted leave from Sep 2009 to Sep 2012 (for 3 years).

But i entered 2 months late due to which i need to apply for an extension again to qualify for ILR. Hope it explains, i will go through the link that you suggested. Am i still cover under this HSMP which is after Nov 2006. Please suggest.

I am literally quite disturbed at the moment.
thanking in advance

jimmymcad
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I request all of you

Post by jimmymcad » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:10 pm

In the policy doucment it is clearly stated that,

an applicant can only claim points for a Bachelor’s degree level qualification if they have, or have last been granted, leave to enter or remain as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, Writer, Composer or Artist or a Self-Employed Lawyer Person; and that leave was granted before 31 March 2009.

This is really strange, they should have added a category who have HSMP initially and granted Tier 1 on old HSMP rules.

Basically those who have applied under old HSMP rules and got the FLR as Tier 1 General further,

Please senior member, need your suggestions.....

drzeevoh73
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Post by drzeevoh73 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:50 pm

on points calculator when it asks for when did you get your last tier1 visa, what date you choose?? it should be 20/02/2008 as you enterd on HSMP in UK.

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:47 pm

Really, if that is the case, the application form has no clue about it? Please can you support your thought with some evidence?

I am not sure if that is the case, there is straightforwardly written in the policy guidance document, in extension section, Page no 14-16, that who have Tier 1 awarded between April 2009 to April 2010, will require masters degree....:(
Please if somebody can shed some comment on it, i am sure we hsmp people must have some right to force them to follow old rule for people who were in hsmp,

Other than this if you open the application form, you will find that there is no clause where you can say that this is another extension application, they are simply taking it as Tier extension :(

rizwan567
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Post by rizwan567 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:47 am

Get your Masters degree assessed by NARIC. I am 100% sure that they will give you a letter confirming your Masters degree from home country is equal to British Bachelors degree and your problem is solved. As this letter will serve the purpose. As UKBA also trust NARIC evaluation.

For english langauge, you do not need to meet requiremet again in your extension.

So just get your qualification assessed by NARIC.. that is the safest option you have got... if they do not give your equivalency to British bachelors degree then we would think on other avenues!

jimmymcad
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Thanks Rizwan for your response.

Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:58 am

But, the point is, it will become equivalent to a bachelor degree if i got a Naric certificate. Because previosuly when i extended my stay, the point calculator awarded me 30 points for it and now it does not.

But here i am worrying more, the rule says Master's Degree is compulsory and no point will be given for a bachelor Degree.

I am sure they should have written thing more clearly there, FOR HSMP people who have extended can also extend their further leave under the same old rule, i wish those wordings should be there. but do you still thinkam i missing something here.?

Senior member please reply....[/b]

pkumar
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Re: Thanks Rizwan for your response.

Post by pkumar » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:14 am

did you try calling ukba or email? .... may be that's best way to get confirmation.

Even better would be that if you can confirm from UKBA that whether SECOND extension is COMPLETELY based on that rules of initial application. That will clear all the dust. As far as policy guidance is concerned, since they have updated the rules so many times that might be some discrepancy.

if you can get this answer then it will be helpful for many people in this forum.

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:01 pm

yupe called twice, and they are saying the same what policy guidance says:-

"whatever is in the rule, you have to follow, it does not mean that you are always qualifying for an extension application, this is what our policy says."

Though have not got my reply through email.

This is really very frustrating, and i think we all people who fall under this unfair rule should raise our voices. Please if senior member can comment. Many thanks...

jimmymcad
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I guess, what i am reading is correct

Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:38 pm

Wait a minute, I have read something in the policy guidance note in my favour:-, do not understand it fully, if somebody can throw a light:-

80. There may be a very small number of applicants who are currently in the United Kingdom under Tier 1 (General) or the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme and whose qualification has previously been assessed to be of a higher level than shown by the Tier 1 (General) points based calculator. These applicants may claim the higher points score, in line with the previous assessment, provided they are using the same qualification as used in their initial application. Appendix A paragraph 7 of the Immigration Rules gives more details.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... appendixa/
Paragraph7
7. If the applicant has, or was last granted, leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant or a Highly Skilled Migrant and the qualification for which points are now claimed was, in the applicant's last successful application for leave or for a Highly Skilled Migrant Programme Approval Letter, assessed to be of a higher level than now indicated by UK NARIC, the higher score of points will be awarded in this application too.


81. points he/she was previously awarded under the HSMP should contact the Customer Contact Centre on 0114 207 4074.
In these cases, we will refer to our

82. records. We will only be able to award a higher points score where each of the following requirements is met:

• the applicant is currently in the United Kingdom under Tier 1 (General) or the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme;
•the applicant is relying on the same qualification for which we previously awarded points in this area;
•the earlier assessment of the qualification confirmed that it was equivalent to a higher level of qualification than is now shown by the points based calculator; and
• there is no evidence that the applicant used deception to obtain the earlier decision.

This seems to be going in favour of mine, Please Senior Member if they can explain this rule more appropriately, am i thinking correctly, should i be eligible for further extension with having the same degree?

pkumar
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Re: I guess, what i am reading is correct

Post by pkumar » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:21 pm

what did you answer in ukba online point calculator for : Are you in the United Kingdom under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP)?

i think confusion is if you say YES, then you follow old hsmp and things are fine. Issue is when you say NO.

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:24 pm

I input Tier1 in it as now i have extenede my leave to remain under Tier1......Should we put HSMP there still?

jimmymcad
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That's true

Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:32 pm

if i put HSMP and extending to Tier1, i got 30 points to my degree, So would it be appropriate for me to select HSMP while i apply for extension?

Any Senior can comment on the guidance document points above would ease the tension more..

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:54 pm

Hi, Please admin and other senior members if can shed somelight to the guidance note and what to apply (HSMP or Tier1) if i am applying for Tier1 Extension in the point calculator? Many tahnks

tipu20
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Post by tipu20 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:36 pm

Hi

you are worring too much , Your Leave to remain was given to you on Rules in place before Apr 2009.

Only date does not make you fall under the rules in place for Master Degree requirments, With your extention did you recieve a points summary from Case Worker , you can use that to prove that you was awared points for your BA degree (30).

Regards,
Tipu

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:27 pm

Hi Tipu thanks for your comment,

I am really confused by the statement which says, your Application Awarding Date and if you see the guidance notes, they have talked about your application awarding date too on Page 14, 15, 16.

Yes i have recieved the point summary form from them. which has awarded me 30 points.

I applied in May 2009 and I did apply with HSMP old rules which were before April 2009. So should i consider myself before April 2009, even my application awarding date is June 2009. . ?

Second Question?
What date should i select in Tier1 date?

Second Question?
Should i select HSMP in the next dropdown even though my leave to remain say i am on Tier1?

tipu20
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Post by tipu20 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:38 pm

don't use points calculator

read this on guidence note page 14

"Extension applications- Applications for leave to remain where the applicant has, or last had, leave as a Highly Skilled Migrant, as a Writer, Composer or Artist, Self-employed Lawyer, or as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant under the rules in place before 31 March 2009
An applicant can score the following 76. points for qualification:
PhD* 50 points •
Master’s degree* 35 points •
Bachelor’s degree* 30 points"

Your extention was given to you based on above rules. Also you do not have to provide the proof for your BA degree as they already awared the points to you at the time of extention.


but people who made fresh applications were awared below and they cannot obtain points for BA degree.

Extension applications- Applications for leave to remain where the applicant has, or last had, leave as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant under the rules in place between 31 March 2009 and 5 April 2010.
PhD* 50 points •
Master’s degree* 35 points

jimmymcad
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Post by jimmymcad » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:44 am

Thanks a ton TIPU, that resolves one of my greatest fear and my worry about this issue of extending.

I was confused due to the caseworker wrong guidance on phone and also due to the point calculator:-

Here are my final list of questions:-

Q) On the PB Calculator:- Enter the date of your first successful tier 1 application. (I presume this should be that when i was awarded the date of Tier1 application which should be 9 June 2009).

Q) Are you in the United Kingdom under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP)? If you think you may be covered by the terms of the HSMP Forum Judicial Review Policy Document see `Help on this question' before answering this question.

Q) What do i select here, as i am no longer in HSMP but in Tier1 under old HSMP Rules, please if you can guide. If i select No here, the PBS calculator doesnt award my points for degree point, but if I select yes, bachelor degree shows points?

Q) As you suggested, i should provide my last assessment to UKBA for my bachelor degree points, so i will be fine with it as if i go with the option NO in above Question, I should only claim points for the degree rather than select the degree? Please confirm

Q) As i am short of 2 months for ILR, I need to apply for further extension, as i have almost 1.5 years left on visa and no one knows what new rules they would impose, in that case, should i apply now, atleast it will give me 4 months more and i would be qualifying for ILR easily after 5 years.

Many thanks once again for removing my confusion....Waiting to hear.

tipu20
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Post by tipu20 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:55 am

From points based calculator help.
"

Points-based calculator - help

Enter the date you first successfully applied under Tier 1 of the points-based system.

If you are applying under Tier 1 (General) of the points-based system this must be on or after 29 February 2008. If you first successfully applied under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP), Self Employed Lawyers concession or the Writers, composers and artists category and you are applying under Tier 1 (General) enter 29 February 2008.

If you are applying under Tier 1 (Post Study Work), Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) or Tier 1 (Investors) this must be on or after 30 June 2008.
Date of application

For applications made from inside the United Kingdom this will be taken to be:

* where the application form was sent by post, the date of posting; or
* where the application form was sent by courier, the date on which it was delivered to the UK Border Agency or the Home Office; or
* where the application form was submitted in person at a Public Enquiry Office, the date on which the application and associated payment was accepted.

For applications made from outside the United Kingdom this will be taken to be:

* the date that the fee associated with the application was paid. This means the date shown on your payment receipt, which depends on how you paid for your visa application, for example, at a British Diplomatic Post, visa application centre or online.

The rules for applying under Tier 1 of the points-based system were amended on 31st March 2009 and again on 6th April 2010. The date on which you applied determines which version of the rules applied to your first successful application and which apply to your extension. For example if you applied on 30th March 2009 then the rules were different than if you applied on 31st March 2009. You must enter a date of initial application which falls within the correct period you actually applied as failure to do so may result in you assessing against a date which is not applicable to you and receiving an incorrect assessment from the calculator.

"

I hope above will answer your questions.


Regards,
Tipu
jimmymcad wrote:Thanks a ton TIPU, that resolves one of my greatest fear and my worry about this issue of extending.

I was confused due to the caseworker wrong guidance on phone and also due to the point calculator:-

Here are my final list of questions:-

Q) On the PB Calculator:- Enter the date of your first successful tier 1 application. (I presume this should be that when i was awarded the date of Tier1 application which should be 9 June 2009).

Q) Are you in the United Kingdom under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme (HSMP)? If you think you may be covered by the terms of the HSMP Forum Judicial Review Policy Document see `Help on this question' before answering this question.

Q) What do i select here, as i am no longer in HSMP but in Tier1 under old HSMP Rules, please if you can guide. If i select No here, the PBS calculator doesnt award my points for degree point, but if I select yes, bachelor degree shows points?

Q) As you suggested, i should provide my last assessment to UKBA for my bachelor degree points, so i will be fine with it as if i go with the option NO in above Question, I should only claim points for the degree rather than select the degree? Please confirm

Q) As i am short of 2 months for ILR, I need to apply for further extension, as i have almost 1.5 years left on visa and no one knows what new rules they would impose, in that case, should i apply now, atleast it will give me 4 months more and i would be qualifying for ILR easily after 5 years.

Many thanks once again for removing my confusion....Waiting to hear.

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