EEA Family Permit for Wife of dual British/Polish National

[Szmek]

Time is our enemy at the moment. We just finished our end of year exams - and have limited time. Currenty we would be restrained by the booking dates for those silly English language exams. We study in English, so my wife is after 5 years of Medical education - slightly higher level than a basic IELTS exam - but has no certified means of proving this (that would be acceptable to UKBA guidelines).

In my rotated view, I'm wondering if it's possible to apply for a EEA Family Permit under my Polish nationality to gain entry for this summer - and then apply for a Settlement VISA so that it could be issued to meet the October deadline for the NHS Foundation Programme would this be possible?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

In my rotated view, I'm wondering if it's possible to apply for a EEA Family Permit under my Polish nationality to gain entry for this summer - and theny apply for a Settlement VISA so that it could be issued to meet the October deadline for the NHS Foundation Programme would this be possible?

I personally tend to think this makes sense, at least the EEA part.

I am still not convinced by the UK-law settlement visa. Either that you would get the visa, or that it would be done in time. But I know very little in that area and have NEVER done such an application.

Probably the best bet, in my (non-professional!) opinion, is to find a way to exercise your treaty rights before/after/during doing your August unpaid work. If you can do that, then you can apply for a Residence Card for your wife early in the July/August stay and then stay purely with Eu law for the next few years.

Treaty right options:
- Being a student in the UK
- Working in the UK: It does not need to be full time. One day a week of real genuine (paid!) work is enough.
- Being self employed (though logistically that is hard)
- Being self-sufficient and having private CSI (Comprehensive medical insurance). There is no particular amount of money you need to have, but £20k in your account should probably be fine.

Self sufficient might be the best option. You either have the money from the amazing amount of money all medical students are given (:-) or maybe you can borrow it for a while from your parents (if that is possible). You then get the Residence Card, live your life in the UK, and then pay back your parents when you get a UK job or leave the UK.

If you were planning to do this, you could submit the EEA FP application tomorrow, contact Solvit tomorrow, and hopefully be ready to roll with for the fall NHS Foundation Programme application.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you look on http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/, you will see that you can request UKBA give your Residence Card application priority treatment if you need it in order to accept a job offer (or in this case to get into a placement). It is definitely worth doing this!

[Szmek]

I have just spoken to a lawyer back in the UK (from http://www.orchidofsiam.org.uk) and this is the advice he gave me:

The EEA Family Permit should be granted allowing us to travel to the UK this summer, and then we can apply for a Settlement VISA whilst the Family Permit is still valid (if we applied for the Residence Card - ILR after 5years - you cannot then change to a Settlement VISA - but you can with the EEA Family Permit)

The Foundation Programme needs to be persuaded that my wife has 'right of work' for the timeline that they require based on the rights she gains from EU Law as being my wife. Hopefully a declaration that I will be travelling with her will be sufficient, but I will be contacting the FoundationProgramme Office today to query them about it. (We are both applying for the Foundation Programme - so based on the fact that we will both be accepting placements, travelling/living together is a given - its just a matter of proving it)

If you look on http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/, you will see that you can request UKBA give your Residence Card application priority treatment if you need it in order to accept a job offer (or in this case to get into a placement). It is definitely worth doing this!

Yes, I have seen this option, and I think it would help us a great deal. The problem would be for me, as her sponsor, to show that I am a 'qualified' person (employed/self-employed/self-sufficient/jobseeker) - also again the timeline is an issue (we'll only be in the UK for a few weeks), I have my doubts whether this can be done in such a quick time.

However: I do believe that I could qualify as a jobseeker (based on our application for the FoundationProgramme - although it is a year long process, we would have to find some evidence to submit);

and as 'self-sufficient' - I am unsure If my family has adequate funds to lend me as much as £20k - can someone tell me what the UK guidelines for this are? Is it something like £1000/per couple/month? Surely it doesnt assume that I will be self-sufficient for 5 years - I would have to win the lottery otherwise!

Currently, I think the plan is as follows:
1)Enter the UK this summer under the EEA Family Permit
2)Persuade the NHS Foundation Programme to accept the EEA route as proof of 'right to work'
3)Depending on what they say: either pursue the Residence Card in the short time that we will be in the UK or if they allow the Family Permit, just return to Poland, and get the Family Permit issued again just before we move to the UK (for entry clearance - as the old one would have expired by then)
4)Gather documents and English language testing to pursue the Settlement VISA route just in a case its required - paying the rather large fee, we feel like it would be worth the risk/costs to be able to start training together)

[Kitty]

I have just spoken to a lawyer back in the UK (from http://www.orchidofsiam.org.uk) and this is the advice he gave me:

The EEA Family Permit should be granted allowing us to travel to the UK this summer, and then we can apply for a Settlement VISA whilst the Family Permit is still valid (if we applied for the Residence Card - ILR after 5years - you cannot then change to a Settlement VISA - but you can with the EEA Family Permit)

Just to be clear, your wife can apply for a settlement (spouse) visa at any time. She just can't switch within the UK from the EEA route to the Immigraiton Rules. So even if she gets a Family Permit and a Residence Card, she could still leave the UK and apply for entry as your spouse any time she wanted.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The EEA Family Permit should be granted allowing us to travel to the UK this summer, and then we can apply for a Settlement VISA whilst the Family Permit is still valid (if we applied for the Residence Card - ILR after 5years - you cannot then change to a Settlement VISA - but you can with the EEA Family Permit)

To echo what Kitty says, and phrase it somewhat differently.

If you want to change to the UK law route, you have to apply for a Settlement Visa from outside the UK. So if you are in the UK, she will need to leave.

Interestingly you can change to the EU law route (from UK) from inside the UK.

There is no fixed amount that they require to be considered self sufficient. You must:

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State;

[Szmek]

The 'sufficient resources' point is so vague, it's hard to say by that what is acceptable. I'm sure there are some guidelines for immigration officials that state what constitutes a 'sufficient' amount based on the average costs of living in the UK. I saw heard somewhere, that this is quantifiable into per person/per month amount. I just can't find out where it was.

Via the EEA route we don't need to disclose our finances correct? Because the form asks this of us, but I heard somewhere that it is within our rights to not disclose/supply this information. Same with accommodation. Just as any other EU national doesn't have to disclose his finances when he enters the UK. Am I correct in this?
So, if they ask about proof of finances and accommodation, we may simply not provide them as we a right not to do so?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Via the EEA route we don't need to disclose our finances correct? Because the form asks this of us, but I heard somewhere that it is within our rights to not disclose/supply this information. Same with accommodation. Just as any other EU national doesn't have to disclose his finances when he enters the UK. Am I correct in this?
So, if they ask about proof of finances and accommodation, we may simply not provide them as we a right not to do so?

I would simply not answer those questions. They are not relevant for the initial 90 day entry... Neither is questions of your present or future employers....

You do have to answer the previous criminal activity questions, since they can in theory turn your wife down if she has been very evil recently.

[Szmek]

Initial 90 day entry? Isn't the EEA Permit valid for 6 months, with ability to stay forever if one chooses to?

So for the EEA family permit, the following documents should be sufficient:
- my Polish national ID
- her Belarusian Passport
- her Resident Card in Poland
- our marriage certificate (+ English translation)
- declaration that I will be travelling with her to the UK
- evidence of cohabitation (to prove it is not a marriage of convenience ie. letters from bank, mobile phone bills, we live in my parents apartment: declaration from my parents that we live there, photos of holidays/past flight bookings, proof of previous cohabitation)
- statements from our University confirming mine and her student status

But we also have:
- bank statements and declarations of financial support from our parents
- declaration from my parents to say they will support our visit financially and that we can stay free of charge at their house in the UK
- awaiting an accommodation report from the Council - to state that their house is habitable by my wife (cost £65)
[are these required? Or does the UKBA just add these options on the form even though we're not actually required to submit them]

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The way this works is you can enter any Eu state and do what ever you want for 90 days.

If you want to stay for longer than 90 days, you need to be doing the treaty rights thing.

But you are right, the EEA FP is valid for 6 months.

Needed:

- my Polish national ID
- her Belarusian Passport
- her Resident Card in Poland
- our marriage certificate (+ English translation)
- declaration that I will be travelling with her to the UK

I do not think these are needed:

- evidence of cohabitation (to prove it is not a marriage of convenience ie. letters from bank, mobile phone bills, we live in my parents apartment: declaration from my parents that we live there, photos of holidays/past flight bookings, proof of previous cohabitation)
- statements from our University confirming mine and her student status

But we also have:
- bank statements and declarations of financial support from our parents
- declaration from my parents to say they will support our visit financially and that we can stay free of charge at their house in the UK
- awaiting an accommodation report from the Council - to state that their house is habitable by my wife (cost £65)
[are these required? Or does the UKBA just add these options on the form even though we're not actually required to submit them]

The only grey area, in my mind, is the evidence of cohabitation. You just got married, so there might be a question about the nature of the relationship. But in general, if you are married you are married. I would normally not include anything, and just let them ask if they are interested, but time is also of the essence for you.

[Szmek]

It states in the UKBA guidelines that 'marriage of convenience' may be suspected if the date of marriage is recent/close to the application for the EEA Family Permit - unless there is evidence of children or of cohabitation. So I prefer to just add this evidence in order to make sure they don't accuse us of this.

Re: finances/accommodation - when or if they request these, is it a matter of a simple reply that we do not need them or stating that they have no right to ask? My wife will be doing the application, and she is not the argumentative type (like me, brought up in Britain, can pretty much argue the legality of most things). Therefore I wonder how she can protect herself from these requests politely but firmly.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I would include a cover letter with the application which states something like:

I understand that for the first 90 days there are no requirements that my Polish husband be a "qualified person".

I also understand that should we decided to stay for longer than that, that he would have to be a "qualified person", and that we would need to present evidence of that if I apply for a Residence Card.

[Szmek]

Does someone applying for the EEA Family Permit require Health Insurance?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

No. There is NO requirement at all for anything in the first 90 days. Just that you travel together.

The can be a requirement for health insurance after 90 days, depending on what the EU citizen is doing.

[toabetterchange]

No I am not currently employed. I am a full-time student of Medicine (5th year of a 6-year programme). Apart from a few odd-jobs of translation work, I dont work and I'm fully supported by my parents (tuition, expenses)

By the looks of options we have at the moment I think we will be applying via the Polish EU National route for the Family Permit (considering that I dont think I fall into the Surinder Singh case, and the Settlement Visa is expensive, requires English testing, and runs the risk of refusal, based on the fact that neither of us are in employment, both students, supported by parents, and our settlement wouldnt actually occur until July 2012)

Then according to our plans we will try to persuade the NHS Foundation Programme that she has a right to work based on marriage and the Family Permit. [Problem can lie here, as she could lose the fairness of her application and therefore can lose her opportunity for a job in the NHS FP - these recruitments work once a year only - so losing out in the application means should would not be able to work as a doctor in training for a whole year)

Then, closer to July 2012 we will apply for a Family Permit again using the same route and move to the UK. Once working, the Residence Card should be issued.

How does this scan? Of course, the whole problem of the 'right to work' for the FP exists...

Hello Szmek and everyone,


I have been reading your post and note that your wife is from belarus and she is studying medicine and would like to work as a doctor in training posts, first, can she really work as a doctor even she is not registered fully with the GMC? does she has any limited period for working in medical training posts until she is fully registered with them? do you know how long is this work permit for?

Thank you in advance as I am interested in this matter.

Regards

[Szmek]

Dear Everyone!

Just to say that my wife was issued with an EEA Family Permit!

For those interested, we applied on the online on the 12th, filling our all the details similar to the ones on the EEA2 application form, and got a appointment for the 13th July (paradoxically my wife's lucky number) at the British Embassy in Warsaw, handing in the following documents:
- photocopy of my Polish National ID Card
- photocopy of our marriage certificate and sworn translation of it into English
- a declaration from me that I will be travelling with her
- a declaration that we are in a 'real relationship' and stating where we have been living for the past 3 years confirmed with documents from various sources confirming we have been living together for the past 3 years (statements from estate agents)
- telephone bills and bank statements showing our address for the past 6 months
- our financial statements (declarations from our parents stating that they provide us with financial support during our studies)
- an declaration from my parents in the UK stating that they will provide accommodation and financial support during our stay in UK (supported with financial evidence - their bank statements and savings)
- accommodation report from the council stating that my wife can stay in our house (and how many people generally can in accordance with the hosing rules and over-crowding issues)
- photographs of us, our familes, wedding and other occasions

I know that we supplied way to much information that is 'legally' required for the EEA Family Permit to be issued, but we felt that since we have the documentation, we might as well hand it all in to guarantee that they will not reject it (e.g. financial evidence, accommodation reports - all technically not required)

So we applied on the 13th July. We were told that the processing time was 15 working days - which stressed us out because we had already booked plane tickets for the 27th. But anyhow, we got an email stating that the visa was issued on the 19th July (so after 5 working days) and that confirmation will be sent when her passport will be ready for collection. We actually called and asked when it will be ready, and the man said we can come after 3pm (otherwise it would have been sent by post - taking ages).

You cannot imagine how stressed the whole thing was, mainly because of the timeframe, dates and deadlines we had to fall into. We already booked our plane tickets for UK, but also we had to travel immediately to Belarus for her fathers birthday - a grand occasion - for which she needed her passport back. We even called the Belarusian embassy to see if they can give her a temporary passport in case the UK embassy wouldn't make it in time. OMG! We made it, and everything is good

Thank you everyone on this forum, who supplied crucial information and support for us. The process isn't finished, but I will keep posting how it is going, especially with the UKFPO and the NHS programme.

[Szmek]

I have been reading your post and note that your wife is from belarus and she is studying medicine and would like to work as a doctor in training posts, first, can she really work as a doctor even she is not registered fully with the GMC? does she has any limited period for working in medical training posts until she is fully registered with them? do you know how long is this work permit for?

Thank you in advance as I am interested in this matter.

She and I are actually applying for the Foundation Programme which is a 2-year medical internship with various rotations which you do once you have completed a medical degree. You start working with a Provisional Registration with the GMC, which upon completion of the Programme develops into Full Registration with a Licence to Practice.

If you are already a working medical doctor, depending on where you are from and which university you finished you may be required to sit the PLAB exam. Depending on what stage you are in your medical career, different options are available. You can find it all on the GMC website (www.gmc-uk.org)

[Azza07]

Hi there!

I was just curious to see how the foundation programme UKFPO situation turned out? I am looking to apply in a similar fashion to yours and would really appreciate the advice.

Thanks in advance.

[Szmek]

Hi.

Well we managed to sort it out. We couldn't apply together because I (the EEA citizen) wasn't actually exercising EC Rights and I hadn't moved to the UK at the time of the application. She had to wait until the following year for the next recruitment so that we met all the requirements. Everything went fine.

The basic requirements are the same as getting a EEA Family Permit or a Residence Card - once you have either of those they are the perfect documents you can use as evidence to gain registration with the GMC. The main problem is that most of the recruitment is done many months in advance. In which case, your partner would have to be in the UK exercising EC rights at the time of application, many months before you actually start work, if you are to be deemed eligible...

But its all down to details and everyone is different. You would have to explain your situation with a few more details to see your options. If you want any more specifics about what to do and how to do it need a few more pieces of information like your nationality, your partners nationality, what your partner does (working, studying? in the UK?), where you got/gettting your PMQ?

[Azza07]

Hey Szmek, thanks for the reply! Ok, i see what you mean about the exercising EC rights. Well, she is an EEA citizen, I'm from NZ. I will also be graduating with a UK-PMQ in 2015.

Was it all right to just apply with the EEA Family permit, or did you need a residence card for your wife to apply? Also, what evidence is needed to show that you were exercising EC rights?

Thanks!

[sabas]

Hi All,

Looking for some help/advice with EC rights and GMC registration

I am a UK national (from birth) married to a doctor qualified in Pakistan. He qualified a number of years ago and worked in Pakistan for 3/4 years before we got married and he moved to the UK in 2009 on a spouse visa and in 2011 he obtained ILR. In Augus 2013 he became a UK National and obtained his British passport. During the time that he has been here (before UK nationality) he sat IELTS and obtained the score required - I think an overall 7 but without 7 on each of the component parts but prior to making application to GMC the requirements changed to a 7 in every element.

My spouse is now looking to move to Paris for a couple of months in order to obtain EC rights, and my questions are around whether as a person who is now a UK national he is able to move to Paris and actually exercise EC rights - will this mean that he is exempt under the rules from having to do IELTS or PLAB? We have had loads of conflicting advice and really just want clarity on whether this route has been successful with any others with same circumstances - particularly someone who is now a UK National


Many thanks in advance