Nationality acquisition for children born overseas

[longrob]

Hello

I'd be very greateful if anyone can help me with the following questions concerning the nationality of my children born overseas.
1. To determine whether I am a british national by decent or otherwise than by decent - my understanding is that if I am a national otherwise than by descent then they will become nationals (by descent) automatically.
2. To determine whether there is an advantage in marrying my girlfriend before or after the children are born, for the purpose of them acquiring british nationality, preferably otherwise than by descent.

Background:
I was born in Jan 1968 in South Africa. My mother is a British National otherwise than by decent. My father was a South African national and they were never married. I lived in the UK from being 3 months old until I was 28 and I was naturalised in 1970.

I now live overseas and I will soon have children with my non-British girlfriend. We have a vague plan to live in the UK at some point in the future after the children are born, but I don't know for sure if we would stay for the 3 years required for them to be registered as British otherwise than by decent.

Thanks in advance !

[JAJ]

Hello

I'd be very greateful if anyone can help me with the following questions concerning the nationality of my children born overseas.
1. To determine whether I am a british national by decent or otherwise than by decent - my understanding is that if I am a national otherwise than by descent then they will become nationals (by descent) automatically.
2. To determine whether there is an advantage in marrying my girlfriend before or after the children are born, for the purpose of them acquiring british nationality, preferably otherwise than by descent.

Background:
I was born in Jan 1968 in South Africa. My mother is a British National otherwise than by decent. My father was a South African national and they were never married. I lived in the UK from being 3 months old until I was 28 and I was naturalised in 1970.

I now live overseas and I will soon have children with my non-British girlfriend. We have a vague plan to live in the UK at some point in the future after the children are born, but I don't know for sure if we would stay for the 3 years required for them to be registered as British otherwise than by decent.

Thanks in advance !

If you have a Certificate of Naturalisation as a UK & Colonies citizen issued by the United Kingdom government then you are a British citizen otherwise than by descent and any non-UK born children should be British by descent automatically

If you're not married to the mother make sure that your name is shown as the father on their birth documentation (in order to easily prove their citizenship).

[ppron747]

I think you probably weren't naturalised in 1970 - it seems more likely, if you were only two yrs old at the time, that you were registered as a citizen of the UK & Colonies under section 7 of the British Nationality Act 1948. If this is the case - and it should say so on your certificate - then you would have become a British citizen otherwise than by descent on 1 January 1983, and your children born outside UK would therefore be British citizens by descent.

No need to marry to assure the children's claim to British citizenship - explanation in this topic.

Your children won't be British citizens otherwise than by descent unless you arrange for them to be born in UK or a qualifying British Overseas territory, or you become a (UK-recruited) Crown servant, a (UK-recruited) employee of an international organisation that is designated by the Home Secretary, or an ((EU-recruited) employee of an EU institution.

[longrob]

Thank you for your replies. I saw the following, from leaflet BN4: that the children would become british otherwise than by decent if they are registered and the following conditions are met:
Your child was born outside the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories on or after 21 May 2002; and
you were a British citizen by descent or your husband or wife was a British citizen by descent when your child was born; and
you, your husband or wife, and your child all return to the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory to live for three years (see Notes G and H); and
both parents agree to the child being registered (see Note J).

So would this not apply to me, if I am a national otherwise than by descent ?

And by extension does this also mean my children cannot become nationals otherwise than by descent at all, unless naturalised in the UK ?

[ppron747]

Thank you for your replies. I saw the following, from leaflet BN4: that the children would become british otherwise than by decent if they are registered and the following conditions are met:
Your child was born outside the United Kingdom and the qualifying territories on or after 21 May 2002; and
you were a British citizen by descent or your husband or wife was a British citizen by descent when your child was born; and
you, your husband or wife, and your child all return to the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory to live for three years (see Notes G and H); and
both parents agree to the child being registered (see Note J).

So would this not apply to me, if I am a national otherwise than by descent ?

No. It would apply if you were a British citizen by descent. Essentially, what is happening in the circumstances you describe is that a non-British child is coming to live in UK. After it has done so, it becomes eligible for registration, and becomes a British citizen "OTBD", in recognition of its residence in UK.

And by extension does this also mean my children cannot become nationals otherwise than by descent at all, unless naturalised in the UK ?

Yes - or born here. Rightly or wrongly, British nationality law doesn't for "promotion" up the league from "by descent" to "OTBD" - once you are a BC by descent, that's what you remain.

[longrob]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. The children will become nationals by descent upon their birth, automatically, assuming I am a BC OTBD. And you are saying that "once you are a BC by descent, that's what you remain." So even if they are subsequently naturalised, they would still remain by BC by descent, and nothing can be done to change that ?

[ppron747]

What I'm saying is that, because they will be British citizens automatically at birth, they will not be able to be naturalised as British citizens. And because they will not be able to be naturalised, they will never be able to become British citizens otherwise than by descent.

[JAJ]

What I'm saying is that, because they will be British citizens automatically at birth, they will not be able to be naturalised as British citizens. And because they will not be able to be naturalised, they will never be able to become British citizens otherwise than by descent.

However, in some cases a British citizen by descent can still pass on British citizenship to a child born overseas, if the requirements of section 3(2) or 3(5) of the British Nationality Act 1981 are met.

[ppron747]

Sections 3(2) and 3(5) are both dealt with in leaflet BN4, which longrob already has. They are provisions whereby the children of BCs by descent can qualify to be registered as BCs themselves.
The chunk of leaflet BN4 that longrob quoted from in his post of 11.56am, above - from para 9D of the leaflet - is about section 3(5). Section 3(2) is dealt with in paras 9A & B.

[longrob]

What I'm saying is that, because they will be British citizens automatically at birth, they will not be able to be naturalised as British citizens. And because they will not be able to be naturalised, they will never be able to become British citizens otherwise than by descent.

Hmm, I see. So doesn't that imply that I myself should be a citizen by descent, since I was born overseas to a mother who was a citizen OTBD ? My naturalisation certificate was lost and I'm in the process of getting a certified copy from the home office at the moment, so perhaps that will shed more light on it ?

[ppron747]

You were born around ten years before the UK government thought it would be appropriate for British women to transmit nationality, and 15 years before they actually put it on a statutory basis in the British Nationality Act 1981 (which came into force on 1.1.83).

At the time you were registered, back in 1970, the normal policy was to register children who had close and continuing links with the UK. You clearly had those links, because you had lived here for most of your life, and continued to do so for many years. Minor registration, at that time, conferred British nationality "otherwise than by descent" (although the Act in force at the time did not use that phrase).

When automatic female transmission was introduced in the 1981 Act, the minor registration provisions that came in with the new Act were different from those in the 1948 Act, and in fact if your mother had left it until after 1.1.83 to register you (as she could easily have done, given that you were still a minor until 1986) you would have ended up as a British citizen by descent, despite your long residence.

I think the moral of the story is that nationality legislation (like much other legislation, I imagine) is a bit like the curate's egg - good in parts....

[longrob]

Thank you ! That's very helpful and interesting !