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Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

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Plum70
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Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by Plum70 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:33 am

I am planning on renewing my French circulation Schengen visa this summer and just read on the consulate's website that from 6 Feb 2012 biometric visas - finger prints and photo rqd - will be issued.

I am a uneasy about this esp. if it also applies to non-EEA family members of Union citizens. There is no mention of any exemption online.

For any family member who has obtained a French Schengen visa post Feb 6, were you finger printed + your photo taken?

Cheers

ca.funke
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Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
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Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by ca.funke » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:52 am

I just know why it´s not allowed to demand fingerprints or other biometric data for issuing residence cards to family members, and also that this is widely ignored.

About visas I wouldn´t know. I guess it´s legal.

Plum70
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Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:07 pm

Post by Plum70 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:31 am

Thanks ca.funke. Can you detail why it is not allowed for RCs?

I reason that this is in direct relation to non-EU family members' rights being equal to that of the Union citizen. If this is so then the same 'prohibition' of biometric data harvesting should apply when issuing non-EU FMs Schengen visas to facilitate their free movement.

ca.funke
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Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
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Post by ca.funke » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:57 am

Plum70 wrote:Can you detail why it is not allowed for RCs?
Article 10, section 2 of 2004/38/EC gives an exhaustive list of what may be required for issuing residence cards. My understanding is, that these requirements are final, and nothing may be added at the discretion of any member state.
>>2004/38/EC<< wrote:2. For the residence card to be issued, Member States shall
require presentation of the following documents:
  1. a valid passport;
  2. a document attesting to the existence of a family relation-
    ship or of a registered partnership;
  3. the registration certificate or, in the absence of a registra-
    tion system, any other proof of residence in the host
    Member State of the Union citizen whom they are accom-
    panying or joining;
  4. in cases falling under points (c) and (d) of Article 2(2),
    documentary evidence that the conditions laid down
    therein are met;
  5. in cases falling under Article 3(2)(a), a document issued by
    the relevant authority in the country of origin or country
    from which they are arriving certifying that they are depen-
    dants or members of the household of the Union citizen, or
    proof of the existence of serious health grounds which
    strictly require the personal care of the family member by
    the Union citizen;
  6. in cases falling under Article 3(2)(b), proof of the existence
    of a durable relationship with the Union citizen.
To my knowledge Ireland ignores this, collecting fingerprints to issue 4EUFam-cards.

My corresponding complaint with the Commission
my complaint wrote:---------- Original message ----------
From: Christian
Date: Thu, September 4th 2008 at 12:06
Subject: Complaint against the Republic of Ireland
To: EU Plaintes <sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu>



Dear Sir or Madam,

the Republic of Ireland is in breach of Directive 2004/38/EC in yet a new way:

When a residence-card as per Article 10 of the Directive is issued, the authorities now take fingerprints of the applicants and store them at unknown locations/databases for unknown/unspecified reasons.

I believe this procedure to be in contradiction of Article 10, section 2, which gives an exhaustive list of requirements that applicants have to provide. Fingerprint are not listed and may therefore not be required.

Please investigate whether this procedure breaks EU-law.


Thanks and regards from Dublin,
Christian Funke
was replied to as follows:
Commission wrote:...Currently, there is no explicit EC legal basis for the Member States to process the biometrics in residence cards for family members of EU citizens. This, however, does not mean that taking fingerprints is unlawful as the appopriate legal basis could also be provided in national legislation, if it is necessary for a specific purpose related to EU law.

The fingerprinting and the subsequent processing of the personal data must in particular be proportionate and in line with the (national and EC) legal provisions for the processing of personal data as reading, collection and storage of biometrics is "processing of personal data" as defined by Article 2 of Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC...

Plum70
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Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:07 pm

Post by Plum70 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:18 pm

Cheers for the info ca.funke.

I see that this applies to RCs and therefore may not be interpreted the same by Schengen visa-issuing States.

In which case I may have to seek alternatives to renewing my visa.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:07 am

Plum70 wrote:I am planning on renewing my French circulation Schengen visa this summer and just read on the consulate's website that from 6 Feb 2012 biometric visas - finger prints and photo rqd - will be issued.

I am a uneasy about this esp. if it also applies to non-EEA family members of Union citizens. There is no mention of any exemption online.

For any family member who has obtained a French Schengen visa post Feb 6, were you finger printed + your photo taken?

Cheers
Plum, given that you have a residence card, I take it that this is to allow you to travel independently of your husband.

If so, your Schengen visa would have nothing to do with freedom of movement and you would need to comply with what the issuing country requires.

Incidentally, the UK takes biometrics for every EEA family permit application (I think babies may be excepted). The stated purpose is to ensure that the applicant and holder are one and the same person. No such requirement for residence card applications.

Plum70
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Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by Plum70 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:22 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Plum, given that you have a residence card, I take it that this is to allow you to travel independently of your husband.
Not necessarily; just to have a valid one for travel as I have always had a valid Schengen visa all the years I have travelled with my husband. Also as he is Swiss and my RC states that I am the FM of a Swiss national, and not all EU countries have clearly incorporated the bilateral agreement with Swiss nationals (and their FMs) into their transposed EU Directive documents, i'd rather not "risk" being refused entry.

It just doesn't resonate well with me having the French (or any other Schengen/EU state) asking for my finger prints and digital photo to issue a visa. What was wrong with the previous method where I presented myself, a passport picture and my biometric passport (which already holds my finger prints and digital photo)?

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:10 pm

Plum70 wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Plum, given that you have a residence card, I take it that this is to allow you to travel independently of your husband.
Not necessarily; just to have a valid one for travel as I have always had a valid Schengen visa all the years I have travelled with my husband. Also as he is Swiss and my RC states that I am the FM of a Swiss national, and not all EU countries have clearly incorporated the bilateral agreement with Swiss nationals (and their FMs) into their transposed EU Directive documents, i'd rather not "risk" being refused entry.

It just doesn't resonate well with me having the French (or any other Schengen/EU state) asking for my finger prints and digital photo to issue a visa. What was wrong with the previous method where I presented myself, a passport picture and my biometric passport (which already holds my finger prints and digital photo)?
Fair enough, I was just curious, but see you have your reasons. I hadn't realised that they distinguished Swiss family members on their residence cards.

Finger printing is becoming rather common across the board for visa applicants. It makes postal applications rather difficult.

Plum70
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Posts: 1363
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 12:07 pm

Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by Plum70 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:19 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I hadn't realised that they distinguished Swiss family members on their residence cards.
And I don't mind but it does cause confusion (sometimes) at the UK border as the distinction creates doubt as to whether I should be treated same as EU nationals. But I haven't had a 'major' hold up yet so can't whine too much.
Finger printing is becoming rather common across the board for visa applicants. It makes postal applications rather difficult.
Maybe common, but I am uneasy about such sensitive biometric data being held on a central system. Surely a biometric passport should suffice.

Sigh...

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Biometric (French) Schengen Visa

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Plum70 wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I hadn't realised that they distinguished Swiss family members on their residence cards.
And I don't mind but it does cause confusion (sometimes) at the UK border as the distinction creates doubt as to whether I should be treated same as EU nationals. But I haven't had a 'major' hold up yet so can't whine too much.
Finger printing is becoming rather common across the board for visa applicants. It makes postal applications rather difficult.
Maybe common, but I am uneasy about such sensitive biometric data being held on a central system. Surely a biometric passport should suffice.

Sigh...
I understand your concerns and your point re biometric passport.

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