EEA3 refused (in the space of 2 weeks!) What now?

[dormice]

I'm in total agreement with plum. I thought my post was clear but I guess it wasn't. A PR and 1-2 P60 would do the job. You don't really need to provide evidence from your PR date until the application and you definitely don't need to wait until April. Apply tomorrow if you wish.

Ok, me again, please don't hate me.

I still haven't submitted the application (temporary money blip) but called a local NCS office the other day to book a date as I have now saved the money.

They said that they want to see evidence that I've been here 3 years and one day before the day I sit with them in the NCS office. So they said I can either wait until April 6th (then I have 3 years of payslips) or I can get a GP letter saying I've been registered with them for over 3 years.

Now, you may say, as we're in March already just wait a little bit more. The trouble is, my husband will start doing a lot of travelling for work from April and I will be with him on a few of these journeys so basically it becomes important to do this before he strats travelling because of the issue with the days in the Uk.

So I have 2 questions. What are my chances if I don't wait until April? The GP letter is somethign I could have but has anyone else used this? It seems somehow dodgy!

Most important question: I read that the applicant must be in the UK on the day that UKBA receives the application. If I apply via NCS is this the day of the NCS appointment or X days afterwards?

Thanks.....

[Jambo]

So I have 2 questions. What are my chances if I don't wait until April? The GP letter is somethign I could have but has anyone else used this? It seems somehow dodgy!

GP letter is not dodgy at all. Not everyone work and can produce payslips as proof of residence. If you got utility bills to cover that period that is also acceptable or bank statements to show you were in country. Normally, for naturalisation applications a passport is enough to show you have been resident, the problem with EEA nationals is that the passport doesn't get stamped so you need to provide alternative proof.

Most important question: I read that the applicant must be in the UK on the day that UKBA receives the application. If I apply via NCS is this the day of the NCS appointment or X days afterwards?

NCS will ask you not to travel for 5 days following the appointment to make sure you are in the country when the application arrives at the HO.

[dormice]

Thank you Jambo.

I don't have utility bills as these are mainly in my hubby's name; I have a mountain of bank statements but they said they won't take those. Will try the GP then.

The 5-day rule is interesting. Guide to form AN doesn't specify the number of days so this is helpful.

[dormice]

Well, I decided to play it safe and not bother with the doctor's letter and book an appointment for early april. That way I will have 3 full years' worth of payslips. This combined with the fact that I received my PR back in December and I am married to a Brit should, I thought, make the application smooth and simple.

So I start calling around different NCSs to ask whether they are free on my intended date. I found one which is indeed free on that date, and started going though some information over the phone but the lady said that I AM NOT ELIGIBLE. She said this is because I cannot prove exercise of treaty rights for the past 5 years.

I said this should not matter, I have PR and I'm married to a Brit so 3 years are enough. She was completely adamant. Seeing how insistent I was she even asked a colleague of hers and he said that indeed I am not eligible if I cannot prove 5 years. He said the 3-year + marriage rule only applies to people from outside the EU. He said I'm free to pay and book an appointment if I want to but it will be a waste of money as I'm not eligible.

I'm feeling quite emotional right now, cannot believe this.

[Jambo]

NCS are wrong. Book the appointment and tell them you are willing to take the risk. During the appointment, ask them to call the HO to verify your eligibility if you wish to educate the NCS stuff.

There is no need for you to prove 5 years exercising treaty rights again. You have a PR card and this is a proof the HO already recognised that you have exercised treaty rights for 5 years.

Did you explain to them that you have a PR card which was issued based on proof of 5 years exercising treaty rights?

[dormice]

Yes Jambo I did explain this to them but they say that this is not sufficient. They were really adamant. They said Eu applications are much more complex than no-EU application so I have to provide extra proof (i.e. 5 years instead of 3; actually at one point they even said I need to provide 6 years' worth of documentation!)

Given how expensive this process is, I am now worried. I would like to have something 'im my hand', something written down where I can show they are wrong so I reassure myself that the application money is not wasted. I mailed UKBA with this query but will they reply? They haven't replied when I wrote to them in the past with my query regarding the validity of the Life in the Uk test, they just ignored my e-mails.

My intention was (as per previous posts of mine) to include dates for the past 3 years in section 2.2, and leave sections 2.4 to 2.6 blank. The lady on the phone said I cannot do this, I would need to provide 5 years' worth if dates and documents in 2.2, and I need to fill sections 2.4 to 2.6. My worry is that I pay the fee for the NCS, I turn up there and they refuse to submit my application because it is not filled to the standards THEY believe to be the correct ones.

[dormice]

i should add a detail. When they said 5 years I thought ok, if they are so stubborn I'll get the GP letter after all (I've been with this same GP for about 5 years) but they said that they need payslips for 5 years so basically not only they want 5 years but they seem to apply stricter criteria as to how to prove the 5 years compared to the other NCS I had called a while ago (unfortunately that particular NCs no longer has my chosen date available).

[Jambo]

The NCS comments are all valid if you did not have a PR confirmation but as you do have PR status confirmed already - what is the logic of proving your PR status again?

They are simply wrong. The worst case would be that they ask you to sign a declaration stating that you are making an application in contrary to their advice and you are aware of the consequences.

Insist to book the appointment (if you still feel OK using that particular NCS). They are wrong. I'm not aware of any written document to prove your point to NCS but I suggest you ask NCS to call the HO (they have direct access to the caseworkers) and to check with them. I'm confident that if you hold a PR card, there is no need to prove your PR status again for a naturalisation application.

[dormice]

Managed to book an appointment with a different NCS; I had completely lost faith in the one I referred to above and I'm not in the mood to turn up for the appointment only to get into a discussion.

Would still very much like to talk to someone in UKBA to hear it from them about the 3-year thingie, just so I don't panic for the next 6 month plus ... but what a nightmare calling UKBA is - impossible to get through!

[spike_UK]

I don't know why u guys find it hard to communicate(get through) with HO phone line.
Just before I applied for my PR 2 weeks ago I all most talked to them every day to get informations.

[varna1983]

I don't know why u guys find it hard to communicate(get through) with HO phone line.
Just before I applied for my PR 2 weeks ago I all most talked to them every day to get informations.

well i am trying to get in touch with them for the last 2 weeks without any result calling all the time every day...so whats ur trick to get in touch?

[dormice]

This is now beyond the joke. Not funny at all anymore, just makes me want to cry in fact.

I applied via NCS in early April. All seemed fine.

I wait and wait and no money is taken out of my credit card. I call the bank and ask, has an attempt been made by UKBA/HO to take the money?
They say no, none at all.

Fair enough. I figured they would take longer because they are probably very busy what with the cuts, the well publicised airport queues etc. So I give them a bit longer.

Today (!) I get a letter from them, dated April 17 saying that they tried taking the money but was declined.

First of all I try and call them right away. I tried all combinations of options on 0845 010 5200 but to no avail: they either put me through a pre-recorded message with no relation whatsoever with my case (and then they automatically disconnect) or, the one time I managed to get to talk to a human being she was actually quite nasty to me, told me to redial and choose option 2 (which I had already tried). I told her I had tried already but all I get is a prerecorded message while I need to talk to someone to make a payment and she shouted at me and hung up. That was when I cried a little.

Then I dusted myself off and called the bank again. I explain the whole situation and they are very helpful, they go back on my transaction history very carefully and say categorically that no, no request for money on my card has been made AT ALL. They are puzzled as to why the letter from UKBA would say a payment has been declined since they haven't had any payment requests at all!

I'm very angry right now, very angry and frustrated, so I leave it here before I rant too long...

[Jambo]

Call them again. Option 2, 1. Hopefully you will get someone nicer this time. Ask him to transfer you to the cashier as you need to make a payment. You should be able to pay over the phone.

[dormice]

Thank you Jambo for your advice.

Unfortunately, it did not work. I tried your option 2 then 1, but was subjected to a long message saying 'all applications are subject to enquiry.... cannot provide progress reports for applications less than 6 months... got o website.... then they say 'this call will now end' and they hang up.

2 > 2 is for applications older than 6 months
2>3 is to make an application (I tried this anyway, but it is a recorded message telling to go to the uKBA website, then they hang up)
2 >4 return of docs
2 > 5 all other enquiries (clearly I tried this but again, no human being but just a message saying if you have an enquiry send us an e-mail and we aim to reply within 10 days)

Then I tried option 1 first

1>1 is for current processing times. Message again.
1 > 2 gets you, after an interminable wait, to an actual human being. In theory this is the option for questions about residing in the UK; during the wait they tell you to hold if you are applying for asylum, otherwise go to website. I am not applying for asylum but nonetheless I held (this is what I did yesterday, the only combination which got me to speak to a human being). When the lady replied, I followed Jambo's suggestion, asked to be put through a cashier she says she cannot do that, she can only help with the return of documents (but the message played during the wait said to hold if you want to claim asylum!); I said fair enough, can you put me through a cashier who will be able to accept my payment? No. Ok, I say, no problem, can you tell me a phone number I can use to speak to a cashier? No, she said, you have to redial. Which number should redial, ask? This number you dialled now, she said!!! I say ok, but I tried all options and combinations, this one I'm using now to speak to you is the only one which hasn't played a prerecorded message and then hung up, could you tell me where I'm going wrong, could you advise on which option to choose? She said she didn't know off the top of her head, I must select whichever option is the correct one for my enquiry (you don't say!). And which would that be? Dunno. Then she wanted the conversation terminated.

Please please, does anybody know of an alternative number, something which works to speak to a cashier?