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(help) in relation to family visit visa that went to tribuna

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DemiGod
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(help) in relation to family visit visa that went to tribuna

Post by DemiGod » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:13 pm

Help would be appreciated (in relation to family visitor that went to tribunal)


HI I applied for my niece to come to the UK. It was refused on the grounds of no economic ties, didn’t demonstrate money for flight or maintenance and did not produce house documents. I took it to the tribunal and explained everything asking for more time to produce documents for economic ties, money, house and etc. The judge ruled in my favour for this and I was very pleased. He went onto explaining those are exactly the documents I needed and even stated the names for me. I wrote them down and was very pleased!

I returned 1 month later to show them my latest bank statements (showing over 5k in), had a letter produced from the solicitor explaining I have a 4 bedroom detached house worth 180k which has no mortgage or loans against it and is fully paid for, had letters translated from my nieces university showing she would need to return for and etc.

Upon entering the room where the judge lied I noticed he was sitting on his chair and had not walked into the room like he normally would have and the member of staff would say “all rise” He simply stated “you said you were going to get me the documents… where are the documents?” I replied “right here” being extremely confused. He stated to hand him the documents and he would scan them and he would look into another case while this was being done.

He also stated the requirements he needed. He did not mention economy ties what so ever… as if he never asked for them but he mentioned everything else. :S

We waited around 1 hour patiently and after all the documents had been scanned we walked back into the room.

The judge then stated to the defence of the UK boarder agency “are the documents were satisfactory?” He stated “no they are not. None of them are.” I looked at my son who is 21 and is the representative and we both looked at each other in shock and were extremely confused.

The judge asked what was wrong and he stated that we had not provided a bank statement from almost 9 month ago when my niece had applied and therefore it was unsatisfactory.

The judge agreed with him stating it must be shown to demonstrate that the that the UK boarder agency was wrong and 9 months ago we did have a funds to pay for my nieces visit and walfare.

My son who was the representative stated “but to demonstrate an amount of money from 9 months ago does not demonstrate the financial situation of today and her ability to come now”

He then stated “The sponsor is on £300 a week salary and is a deputy manager of a catering establishment.” He also stated “The second sponsor we choose is on around £500 a week”

He led onto saying “this demonstrates that seen as that the son lives with the father and they are only utility bills to pay, there is a high probability that the two sponsors had the correct amount of money to pay for the applicants (my nieces) visit.

My son also led onto saying that the house is suited for the applicant also. The judge replied “Yes I am happy about the house and am satisfied.
The UK defence lead onto saying that “You have not provided a council assessment to find out if how many people are living in the house”

The judge immediately changed his mind.. it was so messed up!

My son stated “But the house is privately owned by the sponsor (my self).” The UK defence said “Yes but you still need the council to asses it”
The judge went onto saying that “I don’t see why I should give you any extra time as you’ve already had enough time to produce the evidence. Now how are you going to produce the evidence? I already told you what you would need but you have failed to provide it”

Nether me or my son stated that he did not tell us about the old bank statement that would be required nor that the house would need to go under a council check but he did not tell us anything in relation to that. We were in complete shock on the fact he ignored the economic ties completely and twisted everything. :S

Please note: The first UK boarder agency defence for the time we had for extra time took notes of exactly what was said. When we went a second time it was a different UK boarder agency defence. Could we possibly get his notes or appeal for his notes to be checked against the judges?

The judge then stated “Okay I will notify you of my decision by post in the next 10 working days. That is all” and we left…

Can we appeal against this decision? What should I do? Is this even right? I really dont think hes going to let my niece come it was so ovious. :(

Lucapooka
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Post by Lucapooka » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:21 pm

The least you should do is wait 10 days for the decision. Given the original application was totally lacking in the required evidence, I wonder why you have put yourself through six months of pain when, at 76 pounds, a new application with everything attached would have made much more sense.

DemiGod
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Post by DemiGod » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:24 pm

I understand what your saying but this is iran. the embasy is gone... do you think theres any probability at all of me getting an okay? I dont think there is.

peppekalle
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Post by peppekalle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:46 pm

I hope you get a positive determination.If not get a solicitor to help you with an appeal.

DemiGod
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Post by DemiGod » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:13 pm

Thanks man me to. I was wondering does it cost to take it to the upper tribunal? Also could I ask for the notes/indiviual who was the 1st uk boarder agency guy to be checked against the judges?

peppekalle
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Post by peppekalle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Don't panic just yet Have you received the determination from the judge?The only thing that matters is the judges determination not the notes from the HOPO.

I highly suggest you get legal representation with your appeal incase of a refusal.You can only appeal to the upper tier on a matter of law .I think fees have to be paid i am not certain if that applies to the upper tier too.

The judge will look at the evidence and make a decision either way.God forbid your appeal is dismissed. Please make sure you hire a lawyer unless your son who was the rep is an immigration barrister.

MelC
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Post by MelC » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:51 pm

DemiGod wrote:Thanks man me to. I was wondering does it cost to take it to the upper tribunal? Also could I ask for the notes/indiviual who was the 1st uk boarder agency guy to be checked against the judges?
I think you should look at the original response.

the facts are that the applicant, as it is THEIR application and their responsibility to produce the documents with the original application, failed to do so, the original decision to refuse was correct, you have wasted a lot of time and energy to still not have produced the correct documents.

have a look at the maintenance and accommodation requirements ~

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... e/ecg/maa/

because even though it is a visit and not a spouse the requirements are really the same.

the point about the bank statement is that you produced the situation as it is NOW but you were appealing against the situation as it was THEN and you needed to prove the information for THEN not now.the point about the house is not its value or who owns it per sae, but how many people live there, and that there is ROOM for your visitor, for all anyone knows there could be 10 people living there and as such the property may be overcrowded what you needed to show was that by the housing regs on overcrowding that the property is not and would not be IF the visitor was there.

many people react as you have done, it is very difficult to step back and look objectively at what is required and where the application has failed.

once you can do that and READ the MAA requirements and put the documents in that are RELEVANT TO THE TIME just pay for another visit application and you may do a lot better.

good luck
MelC

MelC
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Location: North Africa/EU/UK

Post by MelC » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:52 pm

Lucapooka wrote:The least you should do is wait 10 days for the decision. Given the original application was totally lacking in the required evidence, I wonder why you have put yourself through six months of pain when, at 76 pounds, a new application with everything attached would have made much more sense.
I am totally with you on this, I never understand why people who have been properly refused don't just re-apply using the refusal as guidance on where they went wrong, on saying that, people tend to be quite indignant and are sure they are not wrong.
MelC

DemiGod
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Post by DemiGod » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:35 pm

I understand what you are all saying but as I stated before this is iran there is no embasy anymore. I would also like to state the judge never ever asked for the old statements from sepember obviously I would have produced them. as for the house the judge said he was completely satisfied on that then the uk boarder agency defence said that was wrong and then the judge remained quiet. is that really fair on me?

Also on that note the statements were changed from the requirements of the last tribunal and this one. They stated bthey wanted to see econmic ties.. they did not even mention they wanted them anymore. :S

The judge also said he wrote down that he wanted to see bank statements from september 2011 but the judge is incorrect he did not state to us this. The UK boarder agency staff would be able to confirm this if I can get him to (But I bet he wont produce his notes on the matter)

peppekalle
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Post by peppekalle » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:29 am

As i have suggested previously wait for the judges determination and seek legal help if the ruling is not in your favour.

The HOPO job is to make sure you loose your appeal and they are unlikely to give you their notes or confirm or deny anything that will enable you to win your appeal.The HOPO or as you call them UKBA defence are not on your side at all.



Another judge might view your case differently.It is not yet the end of the road.If you get legal help they would advice you whether to make another application or appeal.

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