UK attracts Americans and Australians!

[Ashwin2005]

HSMP applications from America and Australia! This really surprises me.

Many skilled professionals want to go to U.S., the land of opportunities. Each year, H1B quota is filling up sooner than it starts. Yet what attracts the highly skilled professionals in US to come to UK?

Australia's skilled point migration programme is quite attractive. Housing, and everything is less expensive in Australia, compared to UK. Yet why Australian skilled professionals want to migrate to UK under HSMP?

Is the grass always greener on the other side?

Any thoughts?

[luke]

This may be a shock but...some people aren't choosing to emigrate for economic reasons!

There are many dimensions to opportunity and they're not all measured by $$ in the bank. The UK holds great appeal for many because of its significant cultural resources and the fact that it's really "part of the world": when in a place like London you feel you're right in amongst it.

True-blue Aussies look away now. Without wanting to denigrate Australia too much -- hey, it's been good to me -- this is NOT a place where you feel plugged in. Much of the time it might as well be another universe. And for some of us (and at some particular times in our lives i.e. when young and childless) no amount of cheap food, clean air and golden beaches are going to make up for that.

After returning from my last stint in the UK in the late 90s it felt like being banished to the ends of the earth. My partner cried on the plane as we landed back here, and I wasn't far behind her!

Even on economic opportunity alone, there's still no comparison. There's so much more going on in larger economies. I work in new products, and watch great new ideas die in the market b/c there's just not enough people to sustain them. Sure, there's 20m people here but they're really spread out.

The job market's not great if you're a specialist, or heaven forbid, an artist of some sort. In some disciplines you might see one job every few weeks here -- in the UK maybe 3-5+ times that. If you're really in a specialist area then forget it...you'll have to wait for someone to die before you'll get the post (and they're probably your boss).

And yes, of course there's a greener grass element too. It always looks more exciting on the TV news than through the window! And sometimes you only see what you let yourself see...once you shut down to a place it's hard to get interested again. And as I said, it's often more applicable at a specific time. In the next few years if I have children, ask me again if I find London attractive and I may answer differently...

But until then...I want to live in a place which excites rather than bores me!

-luke

[amhilde]

luke, you are SO my new best friend!

Hes hit the nail right on the head here in regards to why those of us from these supposedly "better" countries would want to go to the poor ole run down UK. After I came home in the late 90s I went into this anger/depression/denial stage that I dont think Ive yet broken out of, and thats after almost two years of talk therapy. I had finally left a town I hated to move to a town I loved and had started a life I enjoyed- I played on a womens football team on the weekends and worked in the City in the hustle and bustle ( especially for the late 90s!), made friends, went out for work drinks, etc and just really enjoyed having all those great resources at my fingertips. New or thoughtful movies, great museums, places to learn everywhere AND you were in the middle of everything. Unfortunately my relationship foundered and I ended up back at the place I hated.

I feel a certain comfort level there as well. People in this town are very single-minded and its actually considered the Wild West yet in a majority of this state (Nevada)with its militant ranchers, weird alternative festivals, widespread gambling, and legalized prostitution. Im not from this state, I come from an area of stoic, hardworking, strait-laced German immigrants in the Midwest, and so find the people here all rather baffling. It is a growing town, thanks to Californians coming over the mountains, and I guess would be a nice place to raise kids, but I need a town with greater depth of educated citizens and more cultural outlets. Most graduates of this school have to leave because the job base here is too narrow and its proven to be almost impossible to find a job here if you have a masters degree. Oh, and its a small town where everyone knows everyone else. In London you can be whomever you feel like being whenever and probably find a subculture to integrate with- not so here.

I suppose I could move to NYC, and thats an alternate plan, but I know London and I know England and have focused the rest of my studies around learning more about the economics and politics and social aspects of the country. I get so much more enjoyment out of playing with English policy problems than I do with American ones. Im not sure why it is, but you cant very well do that in the US and get paid for it.

Luke is right about raising kids in London, but there are many beautiful parts of the UK as a whole that are still within very easy commuting distance of a major regional city in which to work.

Oh, and have you seen our president? Does he instill confidence in anyone? Has he ever? Bliar isnt much better, but at least it looks as though hes about on the way out.

[Vayu]

I don’t know about Americans, but Australians have always had a wanderlust that takes them to many different corners of the earth. This wanderlust has nothing to do with economics, though undoubtedly being able to earn a decent salary allows us to stay overseas as long as we feel the need.

As an Australian, born and bred, who has lived in both in Asia and the UK and travelled to most places in between, Australia is a great place to bring up kids. Until then though, I won’t be there.

[bani]

I worked in Australia as a biochemist, was lucky to get that job. It's a really lovely place and they pay scientists well. But jobs like that are scarce there, I couldn't find anything after I finished my contract. And even though I loved the culture (being outdoors a lot and people seemed more welcoming to foreigners and generally laid back), it also felt remote and isolated. Everyone seemed eager to live elsewhere (at least for a while), must be the wanderlust Vayu mentioned. My former boss there is now in the US, and I'm in the UK on HSMP. When I first visited the UK, I was surprised at how many job postings there were weekly in my field. Though generally we're paid less in the UK, the resources (proximity to a lot more scientists, and just the available research funding) make it worthwhile.

I also did my graduate studies in the US, but it was so competitive and dire that I just got burned out. Have to say that it appealed to a lot of my colleagues though... they just thrived with long work hours and enjoyed the pressure - I admire these people, but it just wasn't for me.

There's something unique about every country and you just have to find where you fit in. Can't really say which one is best, it's a personal choice. I love how alive London is, how there's always something going on here, and how often I see old friends who are visiting London (so few made the trek to Australia). But I also miss how safe Australia felt, the lack of pollution, the amount of sunshine and beaches, scuba diving in the Pacific. I also miss American efficiency - it's so much easier getting settled in there once you've migrated (in terms of bank account, social security no., getting your phone connected, etc.) - things that should be routine usually are. And the US itself is so diverse (in character and geography) that if you find the right city/town and the right job, I think you'd be happy as anywhere else.

[UKbound]

I came to the UK for personal reasons, not so much out of a desire to leave the US.. Although the UK is more liberal (from a government perspective), than the US..

You're right though, a lot of people would prefer the US.. Some things that are different -

- Smaller latin community in the UK vs. Smaller Arab community in the US (not as many Mexican or latin restaurants)
- Space, things are a lot smaller in the UK (houses, cars, etc)
- Costs - things are more expensive in the UK - I came from San Francisco, one of the most expensive US cities, and the UK is expensive by comparison, especially when you look at salaries..

[rella]

I felt desperate to get out of the U.S. I think you could label us as the politically disillusioned. As others say, there's more to life and morality than a cheap cost of living and never-ending consumerism at the expense of people everywhere else in the world.

[UKbound]

Rella -

I understand your political dissolutionment.. hopefully it'll get better now.. although, I don't wanna get my own hopes up for that.. I wish the US would be as open-minded as the UK.. As I said, that's definitely something that's better in the UK... Although, at an individual level, people are still people, and there are close-minded people in every nation..

[rella]

I actually think that the majority of us humans would be just fine if we were allowed to relate to one another on our own, without our leaders stirring up trouble all the time.

Totally off topic, but I was just reading this incredible essay about the Christmas Truce of WWI. And it makes you realize how much goodwill and camaraderie truly exist among people who are supposed to hate each other.

http://www.mises.org/story/1978

I think immigration restrictions are one of those constructs thrown up by people in power to control little people. Americans freak out about Mexican immigration, for example. I think it's all hype and fear that is totally unfounded. And I really can't understand why the HSMP scheme is under attack where they are obviously trying to throw out a huge number of people already settled. I think it's more politically-motivated hype to inflame Brits against outsiders -- particularly those from non-English speaking countries.