Advice Please: Surinder Singh Case. Applying for RC/EEA2

[DennisB]

Hi everyone,

Great forum. I've been reading all the advice. Some quite helpful to me and lots of interesting experiences, but I have a few worries still.

Background: I am British. My wife is from the US, so non-EU. Lived and worked together (employed, not self-employed) in Spain for 3 years. Got EU Family Permit to move to UK in September 2011, under the Singh rules. For various reasons, mainly my changing work and waiting for payslips, plus continued confusion about some points including conflicting information between the 'help' line and the UKBA website, we haven't applied for RC with the EEA2 form yet. Please note, I was working from November to March full time, then March to now as a temp., contracted out to different companies, almost on a fulltime basis.

So these are my questions.

1) is applying over 2 months after FP expired much a problem (for the RC application)? The UKBA website says the spouse of an EEA national doesn't HAVE to apply, but obviously it helps for travelling and getting work.

2) I now understand I have to prove, again, that I was exercising my EU rights in Spain and living with my wife. Though I get the feeling that they are stricter here on what they accept language-wise for proof. I translated many of our payslips last time (for the FP). And eventually found out I could just get and take a record from my employer, or the equivalent of DWP, showing how many hours I'd worked, what tax I had paid, what I had earnt, etc.. And that was fine. I have a nice letter in English from my employer, but is there anything else you would suggest I produce to prove I worked, please?

3) Have I missed anything, please? Could anyone envision any other problems please?

Thanks for your help.

Oliver

[Jambo]

1) Not a problem. Under the EEA regulations, unlike domestic immigration rules, residence rights are derived automatically from the actions of the EEA nationals. There is no need to ask permission from the Home Office. She can apply for a Residence Card whenever she wish. There is no need to apply before the EEA Family Permit “expires”.

2) I don't think the HO is more strict in terms of translations than the consulate (although the consulate staff is more likely to be able to read Spanish) . I would add some payslips (with your translation) just as back up.

In general, if the evidence was good enough for the FP, it should be good enough for the Residence Card.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...For various reasons, mainly my changing work and waiting for payslips...

For Singh cases I understood that the returning EU national does not have to be employed in order for their spouse to qualify for a residence card, but I can't find definitive reference.

Is that the confusion you were referring to?

See also this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ight=singh

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

1) is applying over 2 months after FP expired much a problem (for the RC application)? The UKBA website says the spouse of an EEA national doesn't HAVE to apply, but obviously it helps for travelling and getting work.

This won't be a problem for the residence card. I take it that your wife is a US citizen. If so, traveling will be less of a problem for her. Does she want to work? If so, residence card will help.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

2) I now understand I have to prove, again, that I was exercising my EU rights in Spain and living with my wife. Though I get the feeling that they are stricter here on what they accept language-wise for proof. I translated many of our payslips last time (for the FP). And eventually found out I could just get and take a record from my employer, or the equivalent of DWP, showing how many hours I'd worked, what tax I had paid, what I had earnt, etc.. And that was fine. I have a nice letter in English from my employer, but is there anything else you would suggest I produce to prove I worked, please?

I would suggest that what you used to apply for family permit will suffice for residence card. Do you still have your Spanish residence documentation or did you have to surrender them?

[DennisB]

1) Not a problem. Under the EEA regulations, unlike domestic immigration rules, residence rights are derived automatically from the actions of the EEA nationals. There is no need to ask permission from the Home Office. She can apply for a Residence Card whenever she wish. There is no need to apply before the EEA Family Permit “expires”.

2) I don't think the HO is more strict in terms of translations than the consulate (although the consulate staff is more likely to be able to read Spanish) . I would add some payslips (with your translation) just as back up.

In general, if the evidence was good enough for the FP, it should be good enough for the Residence Card.

Thank you Jambo. That's reassuring. So do you think a letter from my manager and say, 6 months of payslips and translations will suffice? The only other problem with this is that we never received 'phyiscal' copies'. Just PDFs. Their idea of a physical copy was to print it off themselves!

I hope that isn't a problem...?

[DennisB]

...For various reasons, mainly my changing work and waiting for payslips...

For Singh cases I understood that the returning EU national does not have to be employed in order for their spouse to qualify for a residence card, but I can't find definitive reference.

Is that the confusion you were referring to?

See also this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ight=singh

Thank you for replying EUsmileWEallsmile. I read about that last night, but it sounded like UKBA wasn't fully on top of that, and might still think I'm required to be working - so I since I have been working I was going to supply payslips still and a contract. So no, sorry, this wasn't what I was refering to. I was more worried about 1) FP having expered and 2) re-proving that a) I worked in Spain and b) we lived together there.

Thank you for that link. I was looking at it last night, though the thread is a little confusing.

Thanks again EUsmileWEallsmile.

[vinny]

...For various reasons, mainly my changing work and waiting for payslips...

For Singh cases I understood that the returning EU national does not have to be employed in order for their spouse to qualify for a residence card, but I can't find definitive reference.

Is that the confusion you were referring to?

See also this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ight=singh

Eind (C-291/05)

[DennisB]

I would suggest that what you used to apply for family permit will suffice for residence card. Do you still have your Spanish residence documentation or did you have to surrender them?

Thank you again EUsmileWEallsmile.

My wife has her Spanish Residence Card, still. And I have a green piece of paper confirming my residence in Spain and incuding my ID number (NIE) - in other words, what EU citizens get given in Spain now instead of a residence card. Both include our ID numbers (NIEs). Is this what you mean?

Thank you

[vinny]

See also 3.11.

[DennisB]

I would suggest that what you used to apply for family permit will suffice for residence card.

For the FP, at the last minute I realised the wanted this 'record of work, tax contributions and unemployment benefits received' that the state supplies. Though I think there wasn't much time, my employer provided me with a mini version was just concerened with my activity with them.

I didn't have time to translate that before. If I used that last time, but this time just use (printed) payslips and letter from employer, do you think that will suffice please? Furthermore, I think I have a letter from the bank each time I was paid that might even be in English! I'm just digging through my paperwork.

Thanks!

[DennisB]

See also 3.11.

Thank you. I wasn't asking about that, but I was a little concerned, as you may have picked up in my initial post! So that is reassuring too. Thank you.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

My wife has her Spanish Residence Card, still. And I have a green piece of paper confirming my residence in Spain and incuding my ID number (NIE) - in other words, what EU citizens get given in Spain now instead of a residence card. Both include our ID numbers (NIEs). Is this what you mean?

Thank you

To me that pretty much demonstrates that you lived together in Spain.

[DennisB]

My wife has her Spanish Residence Card, still. And I have a green piece of paper confirming my residence in Spain and incuding my ID number (NIE) - in other words, what EU citizens get given in Spain now instead of a residence card. Both include our ID numbers (NIEs). Is this what you mean?

Thank you

To me that pretty much demonstrates that you lived together in Spain.

Thank you EUsmileWEallsmile.

Although I admit I was hoping she could hold on to her Spanish ID card whilst UKBA have our passports, so she still has SOME form of ID. I have a battered old passport at least.

Oh, but she has her US driver's license. So maybe it'll be fine. Thanks again

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

If you need your passports, you can ask for them to be returned immediately (ie home office receive your application, have sight of passport, copy it no doubt and stick it straight back in the post).

Be aware that if you do that you will get a residence card on a piece of A4 paper.

[DennisB]

Thank you

[DennisB]

Guys,

Appreciate your help so far. So if I send my wife's Spanish Residence card (which also has my name and our old Spanish address on it). And my Residence 'Scroll'. Do you think I'll need get them translated too?

Thanks again.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Guys,

Appreciate your help so far. So if I send my wife's Spanish Residence card (which also has my name and our old Spanish address on it). And my Residence 'Scroll'. Do you think I'll need get them translated too?

Thanks again.

These have been issued by another EU country. They have your names on them. I'm not going to predict what UKBA might do, but I would have thought that their purpose was pretty obvious, ie that you lived in Spain with your wife.

Long and the short of it, I would not have them translated, but would create hell of a fuss if they weren't accepted - especially since your wife already has a family permit.

[DennisB]

Brilliant. I mean, that sounds like common sense, dosen't it?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

...common sense, dosen't it...

My experience is that one should not try to analyse too much. Present the information you have and deal with it if more is requested. Of course I don't mean to say that one should apply with insufficient information.

You have a story, you have evidence, just present it. You'll be fine.

[DennisB]

Thank you. I know what you mean. I just hear so many stories about people not having evidence of this and that, and getting rejected. Thanks for your help.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Thank you. I know what you mean. I just hear so many stories about people not having evidence of this and that, and getting rejected. Thanks for your help.

I think you'll be fine, especially as you have a family permit already. Best of luck, no matter what happens!

[DennisB]

Thank you!

[DennisB]

Ok, little update.. a worrying one.
Still finishing putting together residence card apllication (EEA2).
My wife's CRB checks cleared for her to work for a particular employer but they were concerned that her FP had expired and apparently they called the UKBA (I'm not sure how as the only numbers I find are outsourced call centers) who told them she was only able to work with 5 year residence card and she should have applied whilst FP was valid.

Now I understand its in their interest (employer's) to ask for Res cards, but how can ukba or anyone tell them that she shouldnt work and should have requested a res card by now? ..acc. to everything I've understood.

Yours, confused and worried.

O

[vinny]

Her rights are derived from you, not from the validity of her EEA family permit.

After entry to the UK the holder can apply to the Home Office for a residence card. A residence card (an endorsement in the holder's passport) enables the holder to re-enter the UK without the need for an EEA family permit for as long as they are the family member of an EEA national with a right of residence in the UK. A residence card, which is normally valid for five years, is simply a confirmation of the holder's right of residence in the UK - it is not a compulsory requirement. See further guidance on applying for residence cards.