EEA1 : can't register at a jobcentre-plus as jobseeker?

[sc2012uk]

In the EEA1 application (section 8.2) it's stated you need proof that you are registered as a jobseeker at a jobcentreplus or any other jobcentre. I want to apply shortly for EEA1 as jobseeker so I went to a jobcentre-plus to register as a jobseeker.

The people at the jobcentreplus told the only services they offer are:
- applying for jobseeker allowance
- applying for a national insurance number

I told the jobcentreplus worker that I want to do EEA1 with the UKBA and therefore should not apply for any benefits (not being able to settle in the UK via treaty rights if I become a burden through receiving benefits...or so I thought). The jobcentreplus worker knew nothing about this and kept saying I should apply for jobseekers allowance anyway but in the end they helped me apply for a NINo only which I received a few days later in the mail.

I called the UKBA, asking them how to prove I am registered at a jobcentreplus now. The lady from the UKBA told me I should go to another jobcentre and "just apply for a job". She had no idea that you can't get registered at a jobcentreplus as a jobseeker.

During the NINo application at the jobcentreplus the worker ensured me that any other jobcentre would also only be able to "register" me if I apply for jobseeker allowance at the other jobcentre.

My question is now:
I will supply the UKBA with some of my job-application letters as EEA1 supporting documents (as stated in section 8.2), but what can I submit to show that I am "registered at a jobcentre as unemployed" (also stated in section 8.2) if registering always entails applying for jobseekerbenefits?

[greatscott]

In the EEA1 application (section 8.2) it's stated you need proof that you are registered as a jobseeker at a jobcentreplus or any other jobcentre. I want to apply shortly for EEA1 as jobseeker so I went to a jobcentre-plus to register as a jobseeker.

The people at the jobcentreplus told the only services they offer are:
- applying for jobseeker allowance
- applying for a national insurance number

I told the jobcentreplus worker that I want to do EEA1 with the UKBA and therefore should not apply for any benefits (not being able to settle in the UK via treaty rights if I become a burden through receiving benefits...or so I thought). The jobcentreplus worker knew nothing about this and kept saying I should apply for jobseekers allowance anyway but in the end they helped me apply for a NINo only which I received a few days later in the mail.

I called the UKBA, asking them how to prove I am registered at a jobcentreplus now. The lady from the UKBA told me I should go to another jobcentre and "just apply for a job". She had no idea that you can't get registered at a jobcentreplus as a jobseeker.

During the NINo application at the jobcentreplus the worker ensured me that any other jobcentre would also only be able to "register" me if I apply for jobseeker allowance at the other jobcentre.

My question is now:
I will supply the UKBA with some of my job-application letters as EEA1 supporting documents (as stated in section 8.2), but what can I submit to show that I am "registered at a jobcentre as unemployed" (also stated in section 8.2) if registering always entails applying for jobseekerbenefits?

Bump
Interested in what the answer to this is too.

[Plum70]

The term 'jobseeker' broadly refers to someone actively looking for employment.

"How do I prove that I am actively looking for employment?", you might ask: Emails showing job applications sent; letters of acknowledgement from potential employers; letters of invitation to job interviews etc.

If you have hard evidence of any of the above then you qualify as a jobseeker.

Hope this helps.

[greatscott]

The term 'jobseeker' broadly refers to someone actively looking for employment.

"How do I prove that I am actively looking for employment?", you might ask: Emails showing job applications sent; letters of acknowledgement from potential employers; letters of invitation to job interviews etc.

If you have hard evidence of any of the above then you qualify as a jobseeker.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that makes sense but it doesn't help the OP with what seems to be a conflict in requirements.
"In the EEA1 application (section 8.2) it's stated you need proof that you are registered as a jobseeker at a jobcentreplus...".

So he needs to be registered as a job seeker at jobcentre plus, but they won't allow registration only without benefits.

[Plum70]

The term 'jobseeker' broadly refers to someone actively looking for employment.

"How do I prove that I am actively looking for employment?", you might ask: Emails showing job applications sent; letters of acknowledgement from potential employers; letters of invitation to job interviews etc.

If you have hard evidence of any of the above then you qualify as a jobseeker.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that makes sense but it doesn't help the OP with what seems to be a conflict in requirements.
"In the EEA1 application (section 8.2) it's stated you need proof that you are registered as a jobseeker at a jobcentreplus...".

That's not the whole story is it?

Section 8.2 goes on to say: Evidence that you have registered as unemployed with Jobcentre Plus or a recruitment agency. Evidence of seeking work e.g. copies of application forms or letters of rejection or invite to interview from potential employers. Evidence of vocational or academic qualifications.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

[greatscott]

The term 'jobseeker' broadly refers to someone actively looking for employment.

"How do I prove that I am actively looking for employment?", you might ask: Emails showing job applications sent; letters of acknowledgement from potential employers; letters of invitation to job interviews etc.

If you have hard evidence of any of the above then you qualify as a jobseeker.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that makes sense but it doesn't help the OP with what seems to be a conflict in requirements.
"In the EEA1 application (section 8.2) it's stated you need proof that you are registered as a jobseeker at a jobcentreplus...".

That's not the whole story is it?

Section 8.2 goes on to say: Evidence that you have registered as unemployed with Jobcentre Plus or a recruitment agency. Evidence of seeking work e.g. copies of application forms or letters of rejection or invite to interview from potential employers. Evidence of vocational or academic qualifications.

Seems quite straightforward to me.

ah, yes indeed. Thanks for clearing that up.

[sc2012uk]

thanks for the replies!

Today I will go to a recruiment agency (instead of a jobcentre plus). Still strange that the UKBA put the jobcentreplus in the EEA1 form as a valid possibility.

The other 2 requirements (qualifications + jobapp.letters) are more straightforward as I can provide those without having to depend on some outside source.

[sc2012uk]

I went to 3 job recruitment offices today. Two of them said they will only "register" me after they find a suitable job for me (using my cv which I should supply without getting registered). The third agency asked if I could email my cv to them after which I can make an appointment and they would "maybe" register me. We'll see...(to be continued).

It seems nowadays job recruiters don't really do immediate registration so maybe I can just use a printout of a recruiter's reply-email to my email sending my cv to them as a proof of registration?

Maybe I am seeing a problem that isn't really there and the jobcentre-registrationproof example in the EEA1 form requirements isn't a mandatory one?
Reading the immigration officers guidelines on jobseeker verification in the document "EEA and Swiss nationals Free movement rights V 5.0 valid from 22 February 2012" the requirementslist seems more like an OR-list than an AND-list (so maybe it's requirement1 OR requirement2 rather than req1 AND req2).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Why do you not want to register at the job-centre and receive the associated benefits?

Also, do you have a family member who will also be applying for a RC?

[greatscott]

Why do you not want to register at the job-centre and receive the associated benefits?

I think because he doesn't want to jeopardise, as he puts it: "not being able to settle in the UK via treaty rights if I become a burden through receiving benefits".

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Why do you not want to register at the job-centre and receive the associated benefits?

I think because he doesn't want to jeopardise, as he puts it: "not being able to settle in the UK via treaty rights if I become a burden through receiving benefits".

It would be a very long stretch to say that somebody who registered at a job-centre and so received jobseeker allowance is an unreasonable burden.

I am curious: How much is jobseeker allowance anyways? I doubt it will do more than pay for your London underground trips!

[sc2012uk]

Yes, my non-EEA wife will submit EEA2 the same time I submit EEA1.

I think there is a chance the UKBA may respond negatively to our applications if I claim jobseekers allowance, though I'm not sure wether jobseeker allowance is "Contribution based jobseeker's allowance" which is appearantly not regarded as public funds according to the document below.

According to the document "Guidance – public funds – v6.0 Valid from 24 February 2012"

on page 9 "Benefits that do not count as public funds" :

Benefits that are not considered as public funds under the Immigration Rules include:
-Contribution based jobseeker's allowance
-Guardian’s allowance
-Incapacity benefit
-Contributory related employment and support allowance - ESA(C)
-Maternity allowance
-Retirement pension
-Statutory maternity pay
-Widow’s benefit and bereavement benefit.

on page 19 "Public funds EEA nationals can claim" :

EEA nationals can claim the following public funds:
-Attendance allowance
-Carer’s allowance
-Child benefit
-Child tax credits
-Working tax credits
-Disability living allowance
-Contributory related employment and support allowance - ESA (C)
-Severe disablement allowance
-Social fund payment.

I don't know how high the allowance is. I am mainly interested in getting the jobcentre registration proof that the UKBA (seems to) want to see as supporting document for EEA1 jobseekers.

Good thing we don't take London Underground trips

[Greenie]

you will only get contribution based JSA if you have sufficient NI contributions although you may be able to claim based on contributions you have made in your home country.

If you can't get contribution based JSA you would need to claim income based JSA which is a public fund, however you are entitled to claim public funds and therefore I would agree with others that merely claim JSA would not amount to you becoming an unreasonable burden unless you claimed it for a significant period.

the current amount for income based JSA is £71.11 per week for a single person over 25 and £111.45 for a couple. Contribution based JSA can only be claimed at the single person's rate as it is based on your NI contributions.

[sc2012uk]

I guess that makes my "can't register at jobcentre plus before EEA1"-question a non-issue.
Thanks for clearing that up Greenie.

[sc2012uk]

I'm sorry to say I have to continue this thread after getting our eea1 and eea2 applications sent back to us today on the ground that I am supposedly not a jobseeker through the evidence I provided with my eea1 application.

As said in my original post I haven't registered at a jobcentreplus for jobseekers allowance because I thought I could also register at a local recruitment agency (as stated in the eea1 guidelines) without having to ask for public funds. The documents to prove I am a jobseeker in my EEA1 application to the UKBA were:

-two business cards of 2 persons working at 2 different local job-agencies that I met in person to ask them if they could register me (as said in earlier post, both agencies said I should send my resume by email to them and that jobrecruiters never directly register anymore nowadays).
-two printouts of emails I sent to the 2 job-agencies with my resume asking them to contact me If they have a suitable job.
-a handwritten note of one of the jobrecruiters stating that I dropped in at their office to register and that they said they would register me AFTER they found a suitable job AFTER I would send my resume by email.

I had a feeling this evidence was a bit weak but the jobcentreplus office (that I also visited before sending in the EEA1&EEA2 applications) ensured me I could not register as jobseeker, but only request jobseekers allowance.

I sent our applications 4 weeks ago. That's 12 pounds gone and 4 weeks of waiting for nothing.

What is the best thing to do now? Make an appointment at the jobcentre plus to ask jobseekers allowance? Will that satisfy the UKBA?

I don't understand why the UKBA didn't keep our applications asking us to send more evidence. This is highly frustrating.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

sc2012uk,

What exactly did UKBA say in their refusal letter?

[sc2012uk]

as i read it they seem to write that i failed to prove i am a qualified person.
a few quotes from the ukba denial letter:

"...in order to obtain a registration certificate an eea national will generally need to demonstrate that he/she is currently exercising treaty rights in the uk. This means that they must show he/she is currently working, self-employed, a self-sufficient person or a student...."

"... unfortunately the submitted documents are insufficient to establish that you have a rights to reside under the 2006 regulations as outlined above..."

"....to establish a right of residence and therefore eligibility for a registration certificate the following additional evidence will be needed: evidence of exercising treaty rights in the uk: if you are a jobseeker: evidence that you have registered as unemployed with your local jobcentre, and/or employment agency and evidence that you are actively seeking employment in the uk and that you have a genuine chance of being engaged (i.e. registration with local recruitment agencie, interview letters, etc.)"

"once you are in a position to supply all the evidence required to support an application please re-submit the form and uptodate evidence ...."



Maybe they are happy with my emails to the jobagencies but want to see my applications to specific jobopenings as well.
Still, sending the applications back is rather punishing. They could have sent me a letter requesting that, at least IF that's what's wrong with my evidence.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

While this is frustrating, do you have letters from potential employers, invitations to interviews, etc.

What are you surviving on just now? Perhaps you are a self-sufficient person? Do you have your own funds? Do you have an EHIC from your home EU country?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

They are not allowed to require a specific list of evidence as a job seeker. They mention, for example, being registered with "local agencies", but they can not preclude you from registering with monster.com. Also, I think it is getting increasingly rare that employers send out letters to request an interview or to ever formally reject you.

You can appeal their decision. I think you would have a decent chance of succeeding.

[sc2012uk]

While this is frustrating, do you have letters from potential employers, invitations to interviews, etc.

What are you surviving on just now? Perhaps you are a self-sufficient person? Do you have your own funds? Do you have an EHIC from your home EU country?

We are surviving on savings from my euro account that I access through a debit card. I have enough funds, even to try as self-sufficient, but did not go the self-sufficient way because I wasn't sure wether I then needed to buy thousands of Pounds and put them on a UK bank account. Being a jobseeker "seemed" simpler and cheaper (the euro rate took a nosedive).

I don't have an EHIC card and the private international insurance we had stopped early April.
I don't have a jobapp.letter/invitations yet since I thought my resume emails to the jobrecruiters would be enough evidence. I can of course quickly write a specific jobapplication letter (IF that was indeed the problem). That's the weird thing here, the UKBA did not clearly say why my evidence was not good enough. They just quoted the guidelines for evidence of jobseekers in the refusal letter.

I wouldn't mind trying eea1 as self sufficient if I can show the balance of my euro account as evidence (without having to transfer thousands to the UK). I'm worried I will get another nasty refusal surprise if I submit any bankaccount evidence the UKBA could possible see as refusable.

They are not allowed to require a specific list of evidence as a job seeker. They mention, for example, being registered with "local agencies", but they can not preclude you from registering with monster.com. Also, I think it is getting increasingly rare that employers send out letters to request an interview or to ever formally reject you.

You can appeal their decision. I think you would have a decent chance of succeeding.

How would I go about appealing the decision? Would appealing take longer than just trying again with more jobseeker evidence?
Or should I just try as self-sufficient?

thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Did they not provide information about appealing when they refused you?

[sc2012uk]

no they wrote nothing about appealing, they gave the link to the guidelines on the ukba site and they also wrote this in the refusal letter:


"Please note that this is not a formal determination of your status under the Regulations. Our purpose in returning the documents is to enable you to assemble a complete dossier of supporting evidence and to submit this with a fresh application when you are in a position to do so. In the meanwhile we will not be giving any further consideration to your case."

"Once you are able to supply all the evidence required to support an application please re-submit the forms and up-to-date evidence."

"Failure to submit original documents and up-to-date evidence may result in the application being returned again."

[sc2012uk]

Yesterday, after reading the ukba refusal, I sent out some emails to the jobrecuitment offices that I visited on April 16. (I sent out my eea1 application on April 20).

One of the recruiters (of which I sent my resume-email-printout PLUS their handwritten and signed note that I visited their office asking for work to the ukba in the eea1 application) replied that they indeed received my resume on april 18 and that they now possibly have a jobopening for me and asked me to visit their office for registration this week.

Doesn't this prove the ukba was wrong to refuse my eea1 application on the grounds of not being a jobseeker?

What happens if the recruiter/employer wants to see my COA before they can hire me? Or won't this be an issue?

[Jambo]

Doesn't this prove the ukba was wrong to refuse my eea1 application on the grounds of not being a jobseeker?

It all comes to perception. The HO is not convinced you are a jobseeker because you don't have enough evidence. I doubt that one incidence would prove them wrong. You need to build up proof that you are actively looking for jobs.

What happens if the recruiter/employer wants to see my COA before they can hire me? Or won't this be an issue?

You are EEA national. You don't need (and will not get ) CoA. Just show your passport.

[Greenie]

I think the UKBA is not being particularly unreasonable in asking for more evidence that you are actively seeking work - providing a couple of business cards and a handwritten note from a recruitment agency saying that you went to see them is not sufficient evidence that you are actively seeking work on its own. I still think that you are misguided in not applying for JSA. Have you applied for any specific jobs directly? If so you should provide evidence of this also.