Can I (UK National)& wife (non EU National) live in Irel

[newlight1]

Hello,

We are preparing for the realilty that we may not get to be able to be together in my own country, the UK. So we are wondering, we have been told we can live together in any EU Country ie France, Belgium etc as a married couple, me as the EU Citizen and her as a None EU Citizens without any restrictions and after a certain time move to the UK together without any restrictions. However, does that include Ireland as my FIance is from Albania and Ireland like the UK is not part of the Schengen Free Travel Zone.

How long would we have to be in Ireland for instance to be eligible to live together in the UK? and what evidence would we need to prove?

Thanks in advance!!

[Michelangeli]

I am sorry to see that no one has yet replied to your post!

I have a similar question. I am British with a Filipina wife and a biological daughter with a British passport. Because of certain swingeing changes to the financial requirements for a UK visa, i have changed my thoughts to Ireland too.

I am sure there are minimum requirements there too, but surely not the same as in the UK where they have doubled overnight so to speak. Besides, Ireland is a beautiful country with lovely people, and i can think of no better place to bring up a young familiy. I lived in France fot 17 years and while the quality of life is good, there are quite a number of drawbacks, including the language which might be a problem for my wife.

Let us hope we both can get a answer from somewhere!

[newlight1]

Hi there, thanks for your email. Well the changes have not gone though as of yet. Here is a petition against any planned changes. I hope the changes do not go through or are delayed. WHAT....THE POOR CANT HAVE A FAMILY AND BE HAPPY NOW!!!!! Basically is what they are saying.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... nature/new

If you are a EU Citizen you have the right to live anywhere in the EU without restriction with your non EU Wife. Ireland is also included. From what I understand is that even if needed too you would be entilited to housing Benefit in Ireland if you needed it which would be helpful as it would give you time to find a job as its almost impossible to just fly into Ireland and have a job waiting there.

Michelangeli, have you applied for a spouse visa as of yet?

[Michelangeli]

Thanks for that Newlight.

That has given me some hope at last. Naturally i would make sure we had sufficient funds to exist for a reasonable while, but the idea of having to earn 3000 p;ounds a month before i could bring the family in is daunting to say the least. For me anyway!

Living in the Philippines isn't fun. Some people may like it for a holiday, but try living there. Yes, it is cheap, but as the saying goes,'you get what you pay for'!

Regards M

[st pauli]

Just to bump this thread instead of starting my own, does anyone know what the 'period of time' the OP mentions is exactly - i.e. how long a British citizen has to live with his non-EU spouse in Ireland before they could settle permanently in the UK and be treated as exercising treaty rights in the UK as they were in Ireland?

[newlight1]

I have heard it is 6 months however the UK government can not enforce that particular rules, but I would make sure you live in Ireland or whatever EU Country for 6 months just in case.

What I dont understand is whether you have to be in employment, be self employed, be a student or just be self sufficient?

[st pauli]

I have heard it is 6 months however the UK government can not enforce that particular rules, but I would make sure you live in Ireland or whatever EU Country for 6 months just in case.

What I dont understand is whether you have to be in employment, be self employed, be a student or just be self sufficient?

Thanks a lot, the second thing you mention is of interest to me too, I'd come to Ireland with enough money to support us for a good number of months anyway since I know jobs aren't exactly falling off trees over there at the moment (are they anywhere) but I did wonder if I'd have to get work under my belt for visa reasons if not financial - the whole 'exercising treaty rights' requirement thing.

[Monifé]

These principles are based on the Surinder Singh case. In plain English, if you (the EU citizen), move to another EU country with your non-EU spouse other than that of which you are a national and exercise your treaty rights in that country for a period of time, you can return to your home country under the same rights that were afforded to you in the host EU country.

I think it is based on the fact that you become an economic migrant worker and you enjoy a certain set of rights when in the host country and therefore should be able to enjoy the same rights when you return home.

My understanding is that you would need to live and work in the host country for at least 6 months, a year would probably be better. I know that if you exercise treaty rights in another country, you can do so by studying (with sufficient resources and health insurance), being self-employed or by being financially self-sufficient, but in order to gain the benefits of the Surinder Singh ruling, you must be employed as a worker in the host country.

During your time in the host country, keep every document possible pertaining to your employment and your residence, and get both names on the tenancy agreement and utility bills etc.

The first step would be applying for an "Accompany family member" visa using the online visa facility. Make sure you include a signed letter of application, applicant's passport, marriage certificate and applicant's birth certificate. Once you are both in Ireland, you can start looking for a job. Your spouse will have an unconditional right to reside in Ireland with you for up to a period of 3 months. After that, you need to apply for a residence card using this application form. There is more information on this page in relation to the requirements and documents you need to apply.

[Michelangeli]

I am glad to see this topic has woken up again!

So, do i understand that i could arrive in Ireland, with my Filipina wife and British child, with sufficient money in the bank to last for several months without the hastle of a visa? If i could, i reckon i would not give a damn about bringing them to the UK. I would be too grateful to the Iriish!

[Monifé]

I am glad to see this topic has woken up again!

So, do i understand that i could arrive in Ireland, with my Filipina wife and British child, with sufficient money in the bank to last for several months without the hastle of a visa? If i could, i reckon i would not give a damn about bringing them to the UK. I would be too grateful to the Iriish!

If your intention is to eventually return to the UK with your family and to enjoy EU treaty rights when you return, you would need to be employed for at least 6 months in Ireland to prove that you were an economic migrant worker.

[st pauli]

I am glad to see this topic has woken up again!

So, do i understand that i could arrive in Ireland, with my Filipina wife and British child, with sufficient money in the bank to last for several months without the hastle of a visa? If i could, i reckon i would not give a damn about bringing them to the UK. I would be too grateful to the Iriish!

If your intention is to eventually return to the UK with your family and to enjoy EU treaty rights when you return, you would need to be employed for at least 6 months in Ireland to prove that you were an economic migrant worker.

Just to clarify, is it only you (the EU citizen) who has to work for a six month period, not your spouse?

[frei]

Yes its only the EU citizen who has to be in employement or self employed, it is only the activities of the EU citizen in the member state that would be taken into account when an application is made in reliant to surrinder singh. This said, it is not a requirement that the EU citizen must have exercised their rights for 6 months before they qualify.

The time to be spent is unspecified, however the CJEU ruled that a fixed-term 10 weeks employement is sufficient for someone to be deemed a worker under EU law.

[Michelangeli]

Thank you Monife for that very helpful and informative post. My sprits have risen somewhat.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There is not hard and fast rules like "6 months". I suspect 3 months will generally be enough. You can find the British guidance to the UKBA employees here: http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/ will give you a sense of the options.

[frei]

deleted

[st pauli]

Sorry to bump this again with what to seem to many like an idiotic question...but can you just turn up in Ireland (or other EU state) with your spouse and register them with you? You don't have to go there first and then apply for them to join you, or some such?

But to get my wife from Ethiopia to Ireland I assume I'd have to apply for some sort of visa, but which one? I know with the UK you generally can't turn a tourist visa into any kind of permanent stay, I'd guess that would be the same here...? I'm confused.

[agniukas]

if you are already in ireland and are exercising your EU treaty rights in ireland, then your spouse can apply for a join EU spouse visa (or something like that).
But your spouse will definately need a visa to come to ireland.

[st pauli]

if you are already in ireland and are exercising your EU treaty rights in ireland, then your spouse can apply for a join EU spouse visa (or something like that).
But your spouse will definately need a visa to come to ireland.

I was hoping, rather than me being there exercising treaty rights already, we would be able to arrive together and just register together as a couple - if she just gets a standard tourist visa for Ireland would that be do-able then, or is it some sort of special visa we'd need?

[agniukas]

noone will register you there if you arrive together and you are not exercising your eu treaty rights.
it's possible to arrive on visit visa, but first you have to get it....
in order for your wife to get permission, you will have to submit an EU1 application with the evidence of you exercising your eue treaty rights. No exercise of EU teary rights, no permission, simple as...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The EU citizen does NOT need to first be in the host member state.

The EU citizen and the non-EU family member can travel together. Or the EU citizen can go a few days early, and the non-EU can join them.

[walrusgumble]

Hi there, thanks for your email. Well the changes have not gone though as of yet. Here is a petition against any planned changes. I hope the changes do not go through or are delayed. WHAT....THE POOR CANT HAVE A FAMILY AND BE HAPPY NOW!!!!! Basically is what they are saying.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.g ... nature/new

If you are a EU Citizen you have the right to live anywhere in the EU without restriction with your non EU Wife. Ireland is also included. From what I understand is that even if needed too you would be entilited to housing Benefit in Ireland if you needed it which would be helpful as it would give you time to find a job as its almost impossible to just fly into Ireland and have a job waiting there.

Michelangeli, have you applied for a spouse visa as of yet?

No that is not what it is saying.

It means, and it pretty much always meant or suppose to mean, that if a person from one EU State comes over to another EU state they must "exercise EU Treaty Rights". If they bring non EU family members, they must be in a position to look after them, and not resort to social welfare. (A few very liberal Judgments in the past, has somewhat being stopped by the real law makers via a provision in the directive - Article 24.2 Directive 2004/38EC - Europe is getting fed up with social welfare tourists)

"The Poor" can be happy, in their own country. Why can't the "Poor" not rely upon their own laws in order to get the family member stay in that country?

If you can't comply with reasonable conditions of EU law (ie actually be coming here with a job and not notions of "Job searching" in a State that is making thousands redundant )and live here without resorting to State Welfare , they EU law free movement rights were never suppose to apply to such persons.


Secondly, you are incorrect to say that you have completely non restrictive rights. You must actually be "exercising your Treaty rights". While job hunting is a right , it is a limited for . It may not help to turn your case into a surindeer singh (ie the case you need to rely upon in order to use EU law when you return to UK)

It is worth nothing that these proposals utterly change the face of the Court Interpretation of a "worker" and the liberal conditions set out by the Court. Can't see these proposals do well in Mainland Europe

[walrusgumble]

Just to bump this thread instead of starting my own, does anyone know what the 'period of time' the OP mentions is exactly - i.e. how long a British citizen has to live with his non-EU spouse in Ireland before they could settle permanently in the UK and be treated as exercising treaty rights in the UK as they were in Ireland?

There is no actual time limit. Normally 1 year would help

[agniukas]

well, without a visa, his spouse won't be able to leave Ethiopia, would she?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you can't comply with reasonable conditions of EU law (ie actually be coming here with a job and not notions of "Job searching" in a State that is making thousands redundant )and live here without resorting to State Welfare , they EU law free movement rights were never suppose to apply to such persons.

If you read the law, you will see that they is ALWAYS an initial period of 90 days in which there is no requirement that the EU citizen be doing anything. There are "no conditions" on the EU citizen in this period

[walrusgumble]

If you can't comply with reasonable conditions of EU law (ie actually be coming here with a job and not notions of "Job searching" in a State that is making thousands redundant )and live here without resorting to State Welfare , they EU law free movement rights were never suppose to apply to such persons.

If you read the law, you will see that they is ALWAYS an initial period of 90 days in which there is no requirement that the EU citizen be doing anything. There are "no conditions" on the EU citizen in this period

I am referring to after the 90 days. What then? Your comment in no way rebuts or changes what I said


If you read what I had said , I implied the 90 days by asking the post to take that period of job seeking aside.

Either way, you have no right to social during this period, unless you are working etc.