article 10 vs. article 20

[ca.funke]

Thanks to an email from another member, I was made aware of the following severe technical problem/fault in 2004/38/EC:

As discussed >>here<< (Part 1), family members of EEA-nationals may travel within the EEA, as long as they are in "possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10".

Article 5
Right of entry
(...)
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State(...)
For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
(...)

For the first 5 years of any such residence, the non-EEA national is usually equiped with said card:

Article 10
Issue of residence cards

1. The right of residence of family members of a Union
citizen who are not nationals of a Member State shall be
evidenced by the issuing of a document called ‘Residence card
of a family member of a Union citizen’ (...)

However, after initial 5 years, the same person will be equipped with a similar card, but according to artice 20:

Article 20
Permanent residence card for family members who are
not nationals of a Member State

1. Member States shall issue family members who are not
nationals of a Member State entitled to permanent residence
with a permanent residence card(...)

Striclty speaking, any such person would be allowed to travel visa-free for the first 5 years, but no longer after that!

Am I missing something, or is this (technically speaking) so?

Thanks for any possible input!

Rgds, Christian

[Richard66]

The more I read of this directive, the more I am convinced it was put together by the Three Stooges after a night out.

Jokes apart, I really start wondering if this directive was only meant to seem to protect family members, while not doing so. It beats me why they could not have made a regulation for family members, the same as they made for residence permits for thir-country citizens, where everyone gets a card which looks the same in every country.

I would say that there is no conflict between articles 10 and 20, because there are not two different cards, but only one, which is renewed once after 5 years, when it becomes permanent, provided the conditions have been respected. You will notice the wording of art. 20 is very vague, mentioning no documents which need to be produced and not even giving a name to the card, the way art. 10 does.

Also you will notice no residence card says explicity, "issued in conformity with article 10 of directive 2004/38/EC. Most of them would, anyway, refer not to the directive, but to the national transposition under which the card was issued.

My wife's residence card says "Residence card for a family member of an EU citizen", but I gather the UK ones (as one would expect) does not make any mention to this.

[acme4242]

for the most part, most EU countries are too lazy to mention art 10 or art 20 on the card but some do e.g.



bizarrely that is how 2004/38/EC is written to only give art 10 exemptions
and to compound the madness , Ireland finally complied with 2004/38/EC
as follows
[quote="Irish law Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011"]3. It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:
:
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen"

[Richard66]

In my case, when the UK finally caves in, it will have been a Pyrric victory.

[ca.funke]

Given the state of affairs, could Cameron be right after all?

"So what is wrong with what we've got? Put simply, for those of us outside the eurozone, far from there being too little Europe, there is too much of it(...)"

[Richard66]

Well, in the end all I want is that my country allow my wife to go there with me and that any other children we have have a citizenship and this is not the case.

At least with the Schengen residence card it is possible for member states to move aroun without needing visas all the time.

I appreciate there are marriages of convenience and all that, but must every single marriage between a non EU citizen and an EU citizen be one of convenience?

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Basically, it is an oversight (an omission).

I don't have the document to hand (so can't post the link), but the Shengen visa code at least covers this case (it's on page 90).

The same visa exemption must be extended also to those third country family members who hold a valid permanent residence card issued under Article 20 of the Directive (replacing the 5-year residence card issued under article 10 of the Directive).

[Richard66]

but just the sort of oversight some countries will hang on for dear life.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

but just the sort of oversight some countries will hang on for dear life.

I know, at least the Germans are very clear about it. Their embassy website is very helpful and explicit. Bless them!

[Richard66]

It reminds me of the time that I wanted to go to the UK with my wife on a visit, only to be told by SOLVIT (of all "people") that the Directive did not apply in case of short-term visits, that the only way my wife would have been covered, would have been if we had decided to settle.

[Richard66]

but just the sort of oversight some countries will hang on for dear life.

I know, at least the Germans are very clear about it. Their embassy website is very helpful and explicit. Bless them!

Yes, it is indeed: Very clear. Now, the French... They do not even mention residence cards!

But the Germans also say that Romanians (in the third-country list) do not need visas.

The Austrians seem to believe the UK is not part of the EU: they say that British passport owners must exit Austria before their passports expire.

The point is, that this "ommission" does not exist in the Schengen rules and, apart from a minority of countries in Europe (and I mean the continent, not the EEA), any Schengen residence card or permit, allows for visa-free travel in the Schengen zone and even beyond. For example, with her residence card, my wife can go to Croatia and Croatia is not in the EU yet.