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permanent residency and state liability

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weareawesome
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permanent residency and state liability

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:59 pm

my wife and i would like to see if we have grounds to bring a case against the home office(secretary of state) based on the following facts:
in 2005 i entered the u.k. on a 6 month visa issued at the border as a non-eu national to visit my british mother.
during my visit i met a girl, fell in love and then we had a baby :-) in 2006.
my now wife, a polish national, registered on the accession state work scheme in 2005, got a N.I. and has been in full time employment since.
we both then started working full time with n.i. numbers and we have lived at the same address and worked in the same place since 2005(durable relationship?).
after my wife became pregnant in 2005 before my 6 month visa ran out, i called the home office on numerous occasions to try and legalise myself from the uk. they informed me that the only way to get a visa was from my country of origin. now, under normal circumstances this would not be a problem, but my non eu country of origin is a 11 hour flight from the uk and the round trip would have cost me £2000.
i then discovered new eu laws which allows the spouse/partner of an eu national to apply via the eu route and that you do not need to apply from your country of origin, but the home office would still not allow me to apply from here.
in the end we decided after our daughter turned 3 that because the home office does not want to help me make myself legal that we only have the one choice they make available and that is to fly all the way back to my non eu country of origin to get married. bearing in mind that it was also not legal to marry in the uk. being here ‘illegally’ at the time.
after the honeymoon we flew back to the uk and and they allowed us through on a 6 month visa issued at the border and they said that i will be able to get a residency stamp in croydon.
i then tried to contact croyden HO and they told me that i cannot apply there and gave me liverpool’s number. liverpool HO then told me that i cannot apply for a residency certificate from the u.k. and that i had to apply for the residency from my wife’s country of origin.
i then had to applied for a visa from the polish embassy which was extremely difficult and costly, because i only had the 6 month stamp that was issued on border. i then flew to poland and applied at the uk embassy in warsaw for my residency permit. this took a long time to issue and it cost us a lot of time and money since i could not work and my wife had to stay at home in the uk and take care of our 3 year daughter on her own for an extended period of time.
they then issued me with a temp residency permit in warsaw and i then flew back and applied for the 5 year permit which was granted.
last year i applied for permanent residency based on durable relationship and marriage and living together and working in the uk for more than 7 years now and they rejected the application based on the fact that i was not here legally during the entire residency period. i then applied for the case to be reviewed through the tribunal service and they also rejected (please see response letters from tribunal service attached).
during the period when they refused to issue me with the permit, we were detained as a family in poland trying to visit family there and we were unable to attend family funerals and weddings together in poland.
i have noticed that the home office has recently made some changes and i am in the second year my law degree(EU law). We have just covered free movement and
as i understand it, the home office should have interpreted our durable relationship in accordance with national law and allowed me to apply and at the very least should have granted the permanent residence (ie. the case law that was in place at the time which now allows unmarried UK partners to apply and legalise themselves) please see the following link to new changes:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... a-regs.pdf
i would like to see if you help can help me bring a case for damages on the principles of state liability(francovich & factortame) and also maybe on grounds of failure to implement a directive(von colson)- restricting freedom of movement on a no win no fee basis? our freedom to compete fairly in business has also be limited by the restriction of our freedom to move freely which resulted in direct discrimination, because the this rule did not apply in the same way to uk nationals and their unmarried partners.

based on the following which i thought was relevant. it looks like the tribunal also refused to rule, because they said this is not a immigration matter. does that not look like they are delaying, because in the letter from the home office it says that they cannot make a decision, after i provided the required documents on two occasions? please note the letter from the home office does not give a valid reason for rejecting and that the tribunal
says that it is not an immigration matter.
we included all supporting documents and provided durable relationship evidence from before we were married in form of bank statements, utility etc. living at same address together and working full time for the last 7 ½ years since april 2005. we have not left for uk for longer than 6 months in total during the last 7 ½ years(also, not more than 2 months in one go).

research

Franz is covered by Article 3(1) if Franz and Karl have contracted a registered partnership
in accordance with Article 2(2)(b).
(Note, however, that in practice, there is an EU extra-statutory concession relating to the
immigration of EU nationals accompanied by same-sex partners.)
Note also that both Sabine and Franz would have their own rights as German nationals
under Article 45 TFEU if they were seeking work or taking up jobs in Italy (see the
comment on Uli in the second paragraph of point 1 above).
You will have noticed that Article 10 of Regulation 1612/68 uses the word ‘spouse’ (this is
now covered in Article 2 of Directive 2004/38); note that there is no mention in the Article
of persons who are in a spousal relationship with a worker, but are not actually married to
the worker, such as a ‘common law’ husband or wife, or a same-sex partner. The ECJ held
in the case of Netherlands v. Reed (case 59/85) [1985] ECR 1283 that the word ‘spouse’ in
Article 10 cannot be interpreted to cover unmarried relationships. However, it was
prepared to hold that the unmarried partner may have rights as a ‘social advantage’ to the
worker under Article 7(2). The end result of this case was, in effect, to make the unmarried
partner’s rights dependent on the national law of the host State; for example, if Dutch law
gives rights to unmarried partners of Dutch citizens, the unmarried partners of migrant EU
workers must get the same rights.
Note, however, that in practice, unmarried partners may also be able to enter a Member
State in reliance on other rights: for example, a number of Member States have national
laws which specifically permit unmarried partners of migrant workers to enter and reside.
Article 3(2)(b) of Directive 2004/38 provides that Member States should facilitate the entry
of partners who have ‘a durable relationship, duly attested’. This would cover a female
cohabitee. It is not necessary to argue that a cohabitee is ‘social advantage’ as in Reed.
However, the Reed definition of ‘spouse’ does apply to Article 2 of Directive 2004/38.
There is no guidance from the EU as to what constitutes a ‘durable relationship’. However,
the Home Office (Border & Immigration Agency) has published some guidance in para.
295A, Pt 8 of the Immigration Rules updated in 2007. The requirement for unmarried
partners and same-sex partners entering the UK is that the relationship is akin to marriage or
civil partnership, has subsisted outside the UK for at least four years, that the parties will be
able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately, and that the parties intend to
live together permanently. As all Member States are preparing domestic rules on how to
apply Article 3(2)(b), we can expect to see different views on what constitutes a ‘durable
relationship, duly attested’.
􀁉�
As a Danish national who had been offered a job in London, F has rights under Article 45
TFEU. He is an EU national and a worker. He will be exercising his rights under Article 45(3)
TFEU to take up an offer of employment.
His partner H, is not an EU national and will therefore not have any EU rights of his own to
travel to the UK. He is not a member of F’s family under Directive 2004/38 Article 2 unless he
has entered into a registered partnership with F. UK law must also treat registered
partnerships as equivalent to marriage. It may be possible to argue that the UK must facilitate
H’s entry and residence into the UK under Article 3(2)(b), if it can be shown that he has a
durable relationship with F which has been duly attested. This may be possible to show as
they seem to have a long-standing relationship.
If Directive 2004/38 is not helpful then F and H may be able to rely on Regulation 1612/68
and the argument in Netherlands v. Reed. F would have to establish that if, under UK law, a
British national would be able to have a same sex non-EU partner living with him in the UK. If
so, F could claim the right to have the same social advantages as British nationals.
Last edited by weareawesome on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lucapooka
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Post by Lucapooka » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:03 pm

Happy reading! In next month's book club we will be discussing Tolstoy's War and Peace.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:12 pm

i would like to see if you help can help me bring a case for damages on the principles of state liability(francovich & factortame) and also maybe on grounds of failure to implement a directive(von colson)- restricting freedom of movement on a no win no fee basis?
This is a discussion board. Not an immigration lawyers company.

weareawesome
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Posts: 19
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 6:07 pm

sorry i didn't know there are rules governing what you can o

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:46 pm

This is a discussion board. Not an immigration lawyers company.[/quote]

sorry i didn't know there are rules governing what you can or cannot include in a discussion board.

weareawesome
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oh and one more thing

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:53 pm

i think that people truly passionate and interested in this line of discussion will find my post highly interesting.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:59 pm

Fair enough. You text seems to suggest you are looking for professional advice based on no win no fee basis. I just pointed out that you won't find that here.

weareawesome
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yes i guess it does suggest that, but it is mainly to make

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:06 pm

yes i guess it does suggest that, but it is mainly to make to make the discussion more interesting and applicable to real life solutions.

here are the conditions of posting in the discussion board:

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thsths
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United Kingdom

Re: permanent residency and state liability

Post by thsths » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:44 pm

Nice read, but I have three things to say about this.

a) If you are a law student, you should do you homework, and come up with a much better plan of action. Asking for a "no win no fee" lawyer is a terrible idea, and you should know that good representation has a price. You should also know that you need to be much clearer in your claim, and you need to have proof. You should also know that you are pursuing a civil claim, and you have to do this in a civil court.

b) Did you do things right, or did you just blindly follow bad advice given over the phone (and with no record, I guess)? Getting married abroad was a reasonably good idea, going to Poland was not. Did you apply for a residence card using EEA2? Did you get refused? Did you appeal? Did you break the law by working here illegally? These are absolutely crucial questions to your case.

c) So what is your claim? Where did the UKBA make a legally wrong decision, and how exactly did this lead to inevitable damages? Once you can define your claim, it is worth discussing here.
weareawesome wrote:in 2005 i entered the u.k. on a 6 month visa issued at the border as a non-eu national to visit my british mother.
during my visit i met a girl, fell in love and then we had a baby :-) in 2006.
Ok, so caring for the baby should qualify as a durable relationship. Did you apply for a residence card?
liverpool HO then told me that i cannot apply for a residency certificate from the u.k. and that i had to apply for the residency from my wife’s country of origin.
This is wrong, and the key question is: do you have that in writing? Did you apply for a residence card, or did you just take a word on the phone for correct?
last year i applied for permanent residency based on durable relationship and marriage and living together and working in the uk for more than 7 years now and they rejected the application based on the fact that i was not here legally during the entire residency period.
And I think they are correct - a durable relationship allows you to apply, but it does not automatically grant you the right to stay. So the 5 year rule does not apply.
please note how the letter from the home office does not give a valid reason for rejecting and that the tribunal
says that it is not an immigration matter.
This is a game they are playing, and you have to know how to play it. They send your evidence back to allow you to amend the application. All you have to do is to resubmit, and the case continues. If you fail to resubmit, it is considered withdrawn.

zheni
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Post by zheni » Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:57 pm

I do not see how you can claim that the UKBA wrongly rejected your application for permanent residency or your durable relationship when you were illegally in the UK. Of course they would not count this period as durable relationship.

weareawesome
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here illegally

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:21 pm

i don't think that i was here illegally because they did NOT provide me with a fair option to legalise myself
during the first 3 years after my daughter was born.

but that is besides the point though,
because
they do allow people people to apply under durable relationship unmarried relationship now which means that it was unfair towards me since i made repeated attempts before my 6 month visa ran out to legalise myself.
the basis of the the law on free movement is pretty clear in that a member state should not restrict free movement.

someone in my situation today will not have a problem applying but what is very important is to remember that in 2005 things were not as easy as they are now for unmarried partners and on that basis it is unfair an discriminatory.
Last edited by weareawesome on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

weareawesome
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Posts: 19
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Re: permanent residency and state liability

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:06 pm

thsths wrote:Nice read, but I have three things to say about this.

a) If you are a law student, you should do you homework, and come up with a much better plan of action. Asking for a "no win no fee" lawyer is a terrible idea, and you should know that good representation has a price. You should also know that you need to be much clearer in your claim, and you need to have proof. You should also know that you are pursuing a civil claim, and you have to do this in a civil court.

i think good lawyers know that they can often make more money on a no win no fee basis and yes as a law student i know that there aren't many good lawyers confident enough to represent immigration cases for the simple fact that they could go either way. i am in the second d year of my law degree now and i know that the civil matter needs to be taken to high court. i have already taken it to tribunal and apealled

b) Did you do things right, or did you just blindly follow bad advice given over the phone (and with no record, I guess)? Getting married abroad was a reasonably good idea, going to Poland was not. Did you apply for a residence card using EEA2? Did you get refused? Did you appeal? Did you break the law by working here illegally? These are absolutely crucial questions to your case.

yes i had to work in our family business and i was granted the 5 year residence permit and they said i can only apply for permanent in 2014

c) So what is your claim? Where did the UKBA make a legally wrong decision, and how exactly did this lead to inevitable damages? Once you can define your claim, it is worth discussing here.

my claim is that they did not allow me to legalise myself and then said that i was here illegally. they do allow people apply to now but it was different in 2005. failure to implement a directive in accordance with it's purpose.
weareawesome wrote:in 2005 i entered the u.k. on a 6 month visa issued at the border as a non-eu national to visit my british mother.
during my visit i met a girl, fell in love and then we had a baby :-) in 2006.
Ok, so caring for the baby should qualify as a durable relationship. Did you apply for a residence card?

yes i got the residence card for 5 years and it is valid now. i wish i could include the reply rejecting the PR and the Appeal letter from tribunal because this is where the game gets interesting.
liverpool HO then told me that i cannot apply for a residency certificate from the u.k. and that i had to apply for the residency from my wife’s country of origin.
This is wrong, and the key question is: do you have that in writing? Did you apply for a residence card, or did you just take a word on the phone for correct?
yes i have had my residence card for 3 years now
and
no i do not have the responses by home office in writing in writing, but it was widely published and it is widely know that you could not apply as an unmarried partner in 2005 so evidence should not be needed.
+
plus if i could apply in that same situation today it will be a granted.(failure to implement)

last year i applied for permanent residency based on durable relationship and marriage and living together and working in the uk for more than 7 years now and they rejected the application based on the fact that i was not here legally during the entire residency period.
And I think they are correct - a durable relationship allows you to apply, but it does not automatically grant you the right to stay. So the 5 year rule does not apply.

that may be correct but it is directly discriminatory because they allow uk nationals to apply on this basis. my wife now has permanent residency and i do not.
please note how the letter from the home office does not give a valid reason for rejecting and that the tribunal
says that it is not an immigration matter.
This is a game they are playing, and you have to know how to play it. They send your evidence back to allow you to amend the application. All you have to do is to resubmit, and the case continues. If you fail to resubmit, it is considered withdrawn.
yes i know that they think it is a game, but it should not be a game because it made us suffer and limited our ability to compete fairly and that is why they are liable for playing a game with peoples lives.
should directive not be implemented using the purposive approach, because it looks like this was done literally?
i think a court may rule in favour?

zheni
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Re: here illegally

Post by zheni » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:29 pm

weareawesome wrote:i don't think that i was here illegally because they did NOT provide me with a fair option to legalise myself
during the first 3 years after my daughter was born.

but that is besides the point though,
because
they do allow people people to apply under durable relationship unmarried relationship now which means that it was unfair towards me since i made repeated attempts before my 6 month visa ran out to legalise myself.
the basis of the the law on free movement is pretty clear in that a member state should not restrict free movement.

someone in my situation today will not have a problem applying but what is very important is to remember that in 2005 things were not as easy as they are now for unmarried partners and on that basis it is unfair an discriminatory.

So, you would say were living legally in the UK then? Despite overstaying your visa and not having any valid visa/permit you were not illegally in the UK? Is there some sort of middle ground between illegally and legally?

weareawesome
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yes there is

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:42 pm

if the government fails to implement a directive then there is a middle ground.
especially if they allow uk national to apply on this basis.
if i did make an attempt to make myself legal or if i did not have a right to be here legally then yes i agree it would be a different matter.
but
i am sure you would agree that it is too much to ask the father of a newborn baby to leave his wife a child and fly halfway around the world just because the home office failed to implement the directive and did not provide the option to apply from the uk?
if you don't agree then i am 100% sure that the public and any other reasonable people would think this this is not proportionate.

the law is not black and white .that's why they call it statutory interpretation.
not whatever i say is the set in stone.

zheni
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Re: here illegally

Post by zheni » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:01 pm

weareawesome wrote: they did NOT provide me with a fair option to legalise myself
during the first 3 years after my daughter was born.
weareawesome wrote: it is too much to ask the father of a newborn baby to leave his wife a child and fly halfway around the world
So did you actually have an option or not?!
I do not see the point in wasting time and money to go to court (if you are actually allow you to) when you have been granted residence permit now. Have you not got anything better to do?

weareawesome
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time and money

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:39 pm

yes i have a residence permit now until 2014, but i do not have permanent residence.
the point in wasting time on this is because it wasted my time and money and that is why i think the state should be liable for failure to implement.
+
i would not not have wasted time and money if i win the case.
and
YES they prevented me from applying as an unmarried partner in 2005 and if you follow a common sense approach then you can just ask yourself.
ok
the guy was not allowed to apply for residency in 2005 from the uk but people in his situation are allowed to apply from here today, so surely we should recognise that he would have been here legally, if the home office did not fail to implement or if the home office provided the poor guy with an option to make himself legal??
but
i we will have to see what the judge says.

thsths
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Re: here illegally

Post by thsths » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:32 pm

[deleted]
Last edited by thsths on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

weareawesome
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you clearly don't know you stuff

Post by weareawesome » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:39 pm

just by the comment you made i can see that you just don't know what you are talking about.
nobody said that i am arguing with you.
try answering questions to posts that you know the answers too, don't just reply because you have nothing better to do with you time

asking someone to move on is just rude and i think you should revise your manners.

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