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Soon to be EU/EEA Spouse

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Nicola1
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Soon to be EU/EEA Spouse

Post by Nicola1 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:54 pm

Dear All,

I hope that you are able to offer some guidance.

We were going to apply for my husband to be a sponsored spouse (I'm the Brit, he is South African), however, he's just received his Croatian passport (at long last).

Croatia will become part of the EU on 1 July 2013. Am I understanding correctly that we can just relocate and arrive? Or am I missing some paperwork somewhere? We have 2 small children and have been married for 6 years.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...sponsibilites/

This page explains your rights to enter, live in and work in the UK if you are a national of a country in the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland. It also explains your family members' rights.

As an EEA or Swiss national, you have the right to live and work in the UK (known as the 'right of residence') if:

you are working here (and have obtained our permission to work if this is required - see below); or
you can support yourself and your family in the UK without becoming an unreasonable burden on public funds.
Entering the UK
When you enter the UK, you must show your passport or national identity card. You should use the separate channel marked 'EEA/EU', where it is available. Immigration officers will check your passport or national identity card to ensure that it is valid and belongs to you.

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Your family
If you have a right to live the in the UK, your family may join you here. Your family is defined as:

your spouse (husband or wife) or civil partner;
any children or grandchildren of you, your spouse or your civil partner who are under 21 years of age or who are dependent on you; and
the parents or grandparents of you, your spouse or your civil partner.
If you are a student, only your spouse or civil partner and dependent children have a right of residence.

Other relatives (including extended family members such as brothers, sisters and cousins) do not have an automatic right to live in the UK. To be considered, they must be able to show that they are dependent on you.

If you and your partner are not married or in a civil partnership, you must be able to show that you are in a durable relationship with each other.

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Family members who are not EEA or Swiss nationals
If your family members are not EEA or Swiss nationals, they may need to apply for an EEA family permit before they can come to the UK. This permit is similar to a visa.

For more information, see the EEA family permits page.

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Employment
If you are a national of Bulgaria or Romania, you must obtain our permission in order to work here. You should read the pages for Bulgarian and Romanian nationals for details.

If you are a national of any other EEA country or Switzerland, you will not need to apply for our permission in order to work here.

You and your family members can:

accept offers of work
work as an employee and/or in self-employment
set up a business
manage a company
set up a local branch of a company
You can also do all these types of work if you are studying in the UK.

Your employer should not discriminate against you because of your nationality in terms of conditions of employment, pay or working conditions.

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Registration certificates, residence cards and family member residence stamps
A registration certificate is a document, issued to an EEA national, that confirms the holder's right of residence under European law. You do not need a registration certificate to be able to enter, live in or work in the UK.

Residence cards are issued to EEA nationals' family members who are not EEA nationals themselves. The card is in fact a sticker (also called a 'vignette'), placed in your passport, which confirms your right of residence in the UK under European law. It is normally valid for 5 years, and you should produce it as evidence of your status when asked to do so. (In some circumstances, we may issue you with an immigration status document instead of an vignette in your passport. You should produce this document and your passport as evidence of your status when asked to do so.)

If the EEA national is a worker from Bulgaria or Romania, who requires authorisation to work in the UK, their non-EEA family members cannot apply for a residence card until the Bulgarian or Romanian national has completed 12 months' continuous legal employment in the UK. Until that time, each non-EEA national family member can apply for a family member residence stamp to confirm their right of residence under European law.

To find out how to apply for a registration certificate, see the Residence documents for European citizens section.

To find out how to apply for a residence card or family member residence stamp, see the Residence documents for family members section.

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Permanent residence
When you have lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years, you can apply for confirmation of permanent residence. For more information, see the Residence documents for European citizens or Residence documents for family members section.

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Posted workers
If you are a Swiss national or Swiss company that conducts business in the UK, you may send non-EEA or non-Swiss national employees to work for you in the UK for up to 90 days without needing to apply for a work permit. Those employees must have been working for you in Switzerland or in an EEA member state for a reasonable period of time. Your non-EEA or non-Swiss national employees will need to apply for posted workers authorisation.

You should contact your nearest visa application centre for details of how to apply.

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Public funds
You do not need to work while you are living in the UK. But if you do not work, you must be able to support yourself and your family in the UK without becoming an unreasonable burden on public funds.

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School children travelling in organised school groups
School children, who are visa nationals, and are resident in an EEA country do not need a visa if visiting or transiting the UK as a member of an organised school group.

To qualify under this measure, school children must:

be accompanied by a teacher; and
have their names included on the officially approved 'List of Travellers' form.
The 'List of Travellers' form must be obtained by schools, from the foreign ministries of the EEA country where the school party is travelling from. The European Commission website provides contact details.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:49 pm

I don't know what the EU will do with new member states in terms of the directive and whether there will be a transition period.

What I do know is that previously those married to UK (or other EU) citizens could work.

Nicola1
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Post by Nicola1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:57 am

Would that be the VAF4 visa then as I understand that Tier 1 for highly skilled workers is closed?

Englandd
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Post by Englandd » Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:02 am

Nobody can predict as what rights the european union will confer to croatia upon accession because romania and bulgaria is already in queue for getting freedom from restrictions. Exact situation will only be known when it will be officially joined in eu in 2013.

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:29 am

As Croatia and the EU countries have signed the Treaty of Accession back in December (though not all member states have yet ratified it) the conditions under which Croatia will accede have been set already. Except for transitional measures Croatia will be a full member of the Union which obviously also includes the free movement of persons. The only question is whether there will be temporary restrictions for workers in place (the link should answer this question). Given the small size of the country (just a bit over 4 million inhabitants) there might not be.

Englandd
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Post by Englandd » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:10 am

The nature/quantum of restrictions will only be determined as to extent the new member state (croatia) is stable in dealing their economial, political sector and most especially how well they securing their borders. Many more like these factors are being compared to determine restrictions but not just by measuring the size of country.

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:55 am

I just read that the restrictions for workers will essentially be the same as they were for the A7 and A2 countries. This means that each member state can impose such restrictions for up to 7 years (2+3+2 model). After 5 years the member state would have to justify the restrictions. Whether the UK will make use of that or not I do not know.

Englandd
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Post by Englandd » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:09 pm

Yes of course. These temporary restrictions will have to be abolished eventually once the new member state make itself be harmonized and compatible with the eu standards.

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:16 pm

No. Work restrictions must be lifted no later than 7 years after accession. That's about the host member state and not about Croatia.

Englandd
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Post by Englandd » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Subject to review but not automatic even though generally 7 years is the maximum restriction time limit. Because signing/ratifying the treaty includes several terms & conditions.

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:39 pm

So you are saying that those terms are conditional on each other? Where does it say so?

Englandd
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Post by Englandd » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:53 pm

Few illustrative ones already mentioned above. For deeper understanding there is need to read the relevant chapter.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Since you are British, you and your family can move to any EU member state right now (except the UK) with no hassles.

You (the EU citizen) then have to work there or be self employed. After you have worked, you can then in the future move to the UK on the basis of the same EU free movement law that allowed you to reside in the host member state.

Germany? Netherlands? Ireland? Norway?

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:46 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I don't know what the EU will do with new member states in terms of the directive and whether there will be a transition period.

What I do know is that previously those married to UK (or other EU) citizens could work.
I've underlined the relevant part. If one wants to see what might happen, a good place to start would be to see what currently happens with A2 nationals.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:48 pm

Nicola1 wrote:Would that be the VAF4 visa then as I understand that Tier 1 for highly skilled workers is closed?
An EU citizen can come to the UK visa-free.

Some nationals, currently A2 ones, need permission to be an employee, but not to be self-employed.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:48 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Since you are British, you and your family can move to any EU member state right now (except the UK) with no hassles.

You (the EU citizen) then have to work there or be self employed. After you have worked, you can then in the future move to the UK on the basis of the same EU free movement law that allowed you to reside in the host member state.

Germany? Netherlands? Ireland? Norway?
Good point. No need to wait until accession.

Nicola1
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Post by Nicola1 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:12 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Since you are British, you and your family can move to any EU member state right now (except the UK) with no hassles.

You (the EU citizen) then have to work there or be self employed. After you have worked, you can then in the future move to the UK on the basis of the same EU free movement law that allowed you to reside in the host member state.

Germany? Netherlands? Ireland? Norway?
Good point. No need to wait until accession.
Hi there,

Thank you so much for this information. Where can I find more information on going this route?

How long does one have to remain in the EU state before taking my SA/Croatian husband to the UK?

Many thanks,
Nicola

jotter
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Post by jotter » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:37 pm

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

Look for references to Surinder Singh.

See also http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=428871

It's mentioned that you should work in the EU state for at least 6 months, but I've not so far been able to find where that guideline comes from. Does anyone know?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:55 pm

The guidelines come from ECJ case law. Read through this http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/

Nicola1
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Post by Nicola1 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:23 am

Thank you all so much.

I'd prefer not to go that route with 2 small children and be in limbo (and worry that the loophole gets closed!) however, I've just discovered more information that may be useful and I've made a separate post:

Please let me know your thoughts guru's? :D

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=117257

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:37 pm

Nicola1 wrote:I'd prefer not to go that route with 2 small children and be in limbo (and worry that the loophole gets closed!) however, I've just discovered more information that may be useful and I've made a separate post:

Please let me know your thoughts guru's? :D
What is "that route" and "the loophole"?

Nicola1
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Post by Nicola1 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:58 pm

I hope I've not caused offence to persons who have taken the Surrinder Singh route, but I just can't see how it's possible for us to uproot our small kids to relocate temporarily only to relocate again in 6 months time.

I read somewhere that the UKBA are aware of the loophole for non EEA spouses to get into the UK via an EEA country and it was suggested that this would not be allowed forever.

With my luck we'd arrive in another country only to have the loophole closed and have to start the process over again in a foreign country :shock:

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:13 pm

Nicola1 wrote:I hope I've not caused offence to persons who have taken the Surrinder Singh route, but I just can't see how it's possible for us to uproot our small kids to relocate temporarily only to relocate again in 6 months time.

I read somewhere that the UKBA are aware of the loophole for non EEA spouses to get into the UK via an EEA country and it was suggested that this would not be allowed forever.

With my luck we'd arrive in another country only to have the loophole closed and have to start the process over again in a foreign country :shock:
No problem. Certainly nobody is forcing you to consider this.

Singh is certainly not a "loophole". It is a major ECJ case from a 20 years ago that UKBA has fully incorporated into their rules (see Regulation 9 of the European Regulations. That is Singh).

Free movement in the EU is only for some people. Some people thrive in going to other countries and even decide not to move back. Others struggle. I am sure your children would get a lot out of it and enjoy it, but at this point it is really your call as their parent.

Nicola1
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Post by Nicola1 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:24 pm

Thanks for your patience :)

We have found a simpler solution for our family, and it seems almost unreal that this is finally happening. In short, he also holds a Croatian passport so we'll be returning back to the UK once Croatia ascends to the EU.

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