EEA2: US citizen soon marrying German, now on T4, questions

[ampersand55]

Hey everyone. I'm an American citizen, been living in Britain since 2008 on a student visa while working on my PhD. My fiancee is a German citizen. She's been in the UK for six years as a student - first her BA, then MPhil, now her PhD - and has acquired permanent residency automatically. She intends to apply for naturalization at some point in the next year or two. She is still studying, and has been doing so continuously since entering the country (aside from some brief gaps during the summers between BA and MPhil, and MPhil and PhD)

We've put in our notice and will be married this month. It promises to be a pretty amazing event. My understanding is that applying for an EEA2 permit for me after that should be relatively straightforward, but after having read these boards and all the things that could possibly go wrong, I want to spell out some questions regarding our situation.



My questions:

1. Private health insurance: she has a European health card, and we are planning to get WPA plans just in case. I am already registered with an NHS GP in my home city, so getting a private health plan should not be a problem. Will these two things (her European insurance + WPA) cut it?

2.
We also don't have a tenancy agreement together. The flipside is that my uncle, a British citizen, has offered us the use of a currently-vacant flat he owns in central London for as long as we need to find a place. That's great because the location is amazing and there's no rent. But no tenancy agreement. We can get a letter from him certifying that it is his flat and we are living there together, but it won't be a formal tenancy contract.
Thoughts? A lot of worrying about nothing? Maybe this is paranoia but from reading this board, UKBA seems very arbitrary.

3. If we were able to find a place and sign a tenancy agreement by the end of this month, would it look bad that it's a new contract?

4. Should I include my T4 residence card (separate from passport) in my application?

5. Should I include any mention of my job in the application?

I know this is a lot of questions, but this is a scary prospect. Everything looks straightforward, but I know how things can go badly wrong. Any advice is much appreciated.

[Jambo]

1. Only the EEA national needs a health insurance if exercising treaty rights as a student. Does she hold a German EHIC or a UK issued one? It needs to be non UK in order to serve as insurance in the UK. If she didn't have insurance before, her time before would not count to PR (and naturalisation).

2. You might want to add a letter detailing the relationship. I would not inclined to include evidence to prove your relationship. My take on this is that if the HO wants to suspect the relationship they will do it anyway regardless of the evidence you provide (or even use it against you). Being Anerican is in your favour as American are not the usual suspects of sham marriages.

3. There is no need to provide a tenancy agreement with the application.

4. No

5. No

[ampersand55]

Many thanks for your quick reply.

1. Only the EEA national needs a health insurance if exercising treaty rights as a student. Does she hold a German EHIC or a UK issued one? It needs to be non UK in order to serve as insurance in the UK. If she didn't have insurance before, her time before would not count to PR (and naturalisation).

She has both a German and UK issued card. The German card expires in March. The UK card was issued recently.

3. There is no need to provide a tenancy agreement with the application.

While there is no requirement, is it better to do so in order to provide evidence of cohabitation?

Page 19 of EEA2 application form (final tickbox) indicates that I will need to provide evidence of residence in the UK. 'Proof of residence: this can include tenancy agreements, utility bills and bank statements. For
children this could include letters from their school'. I can at this point provide a tenancy agreement for my current single bedroom, but nothing joint. I have a bank statement -- not a joint account -- with my university address, but do not anticipate being able to provide anything with the address of our (future) home before I apply in early January.

I could ask my employer to start in March rather than February. That would give us more time to get our life (and documentation) set up, but they might not go for that.

[aledeniz]

My fiancee is a German citizen. She's been in the UK for six years as a student - first her BA, then MPhil, now her PhD - and has acquired permanent residency automatically.

Is she certain about that? Did she got it confirmed through an EEA3 application? If not, and if she doesn't have 5 years covered with German EHICs (which as Jambo points out should count as CSI), did she got the registration certification through an EEA1 application when she moved in the UK? If so, when did she got one?

I am asking because nowadays the UKBA generally requires students to hold a comprehensive sickness insurance, but they have grandfathered those who were issued a registration certificate before the 20 June 2011.

Also, were the MPhil or especially the PhD paid positions?

[aledeniz]

She has both a German and UK issued card. The German card expires in March. The UK card was issued recently.

The UK card is not really going to be useful in this process, but if she has German ones covering the past 6 years, and she hasn't done it yet, she could use them to get the document certifying permanent residency (if I would be her, I'd do that before the expiration).

She could probably even apply for BC, if not for the thought that would be probably quite counterproductive for your own EEA2 application.

[ampersand55]

My fiancee is a German citizen. She's been in the UK for six years as a student - first her BA, then MPhil, now her PhD - and has acquired permanent residency automatically.

Is she certain about that? Did she got it confirmed through an EEA3 application? If not, and if she doesn't have 5 years covered with German EHICs (which as Jambo points out should count as CSI), did she got the registration certification through an EEA1 application when she moved in the UK? If so, when did she got one?

She is reasonably certain (as far as an informed layperson can be reading the relevant guidance information), but does not have an EEA3 confirmation. She does have five years with the German EHIC. I don't know about any previous applications she made when moving to the UK. My impression was that she simply flew over and took up her course. I will have to double check this with her.

Also, were the MPhil or especially the PhD paid positions?

She has full funding from the AHRC, paying her fees and a £12,000 annual living stipend. That was for the MPhil and now for the PhD. Her funding expires in September 2013.

[aledeniz]

I could ask my employer to start in March rather than February. That would give us more time to get our life (and documentation) set up, but they might not go for that.

I am a layman, and I couldn't advise you one way or another, but my own understanding of EU laws is that once married, if my spouse exercise treaty rights (*), as a non EEA citizen I would be able to legally live and work in the UK without requiring COAs, EEA application, residence cards or what else. So If I would marry the 31st December, I'd feel able to lawfully and legally work the 1st January.

In practice, you often need at least a COA, and more often than not a RC, but I would hope there is some employer out there who understand the law as myself.

That said, you read about COA being sent with very long delays, but I hope the vast majority of the cases will be like the ones I know about from direct experience, where the waiting time is of only a very few weeks at most.

(*) in this respect, I'd do subscribe a CSI well before the expiration of my non UK EHIC.

[Jambo]

With regards to the proof of residence, then first, there is no requirement to show cohabitation if you are married. Second, the requirement for proof of residence is not supported by the legislation. It was not apart of the previous version of the application form and I suspect the HO added it to prevent applicants applying for a residence card without actually living in the UK. Any proof of residence in the UK would satisfy the requirements in the form.

From the sound of it, it seems your future wife has PR. if she had German EHIC for her first 5 years, it doesn't matter if it expired now. I suggest she applies for PR confirmation (EEA3) together with your application for Residence card (EEA2). It might even reduce the suspicion of your relationship. A German student applying for PR is not your normal party to a sham marriage.

[aledeniz]

She has full funding from the AHRC, paying her fees and a £12,000 annual living stipend. That was for the MPhil and now for the PhD. Her funding expires in September 2013.

This is interesting from a few points of view. I suspect that at that level of compensation she is exempted from paying taxes and contributions, and I wouldn't be surprised if therefore under those circumstances the UKBA would refuse to consider her a worker exercising treaty rights. I am afraid I don't know of anyone who has tested them in a court of law as yet in this point, and given that you seems to have other much better avenues (keep hold of that German EHIC), is probably not going to be productive for you to pursue such a path. On the other hand, I would be surprised if such a stance would survive the judicial test, shame it would take years and probably plenty of money.

[aledeniz]

I suggest she applies for PR confirmation (EEA3) together with your application for Residence card (EEA2).

I would personally wholeheartedly follow such suggestion myself.

[ampersand55]

I could ask my employer to start in March rather than February. That would give us more time to get our life (and documentation) set up, but they might not go for that.

In practice, you often need at least a COA, and more often than not a RC, but I would hope there is some employer out there who understand the law as myself.

I mentioned this on the phone to HR, but they want a CoA followed up by an RC. The CoA sounds like no trouble, pretty automatic. What worries me is being denied the RC after six months of everything going swimmingly, for some ridiculous and easily challenged reason, but losing the job while appealing or reapplying. Then we're both screwed (and probably bankrupt._ I know it's not great applying for EEA2 right after the wedding, in terms of appearances, but that's just how our lives are unfolding.

Our parents have tickets booked from Germany and the US, our friends are invited, everything is set up. All I can do is apply and see what happens. I want to make sure I put together the best and most bullet-proof application I can from the outset.

With regards to the proof of residence, then first, thee is no requirement to show cohabitation if you are married. Second, the requirement for proof of residence is not supported by the legislation. It was not apart of the previous version of the application form and I suspect the HO added it to prevent applicants applying for a residence card without actually living in the UK. Any proof of residence in the UK would satisfy the requirements in the form.

Right, understood.

From the sound of it, it seems your future wife has PR. if she had German EHIC for her first 5 years, it doesn't matter if it expired now. I suggest she applies for PR confirmation (EEA3) together with your application for Residence card (EEA2). It might even reduce the suspicion of your relationship. A German student applying for PR is not your normal party to a sham marriage.

Phenomenal - thanks for the tip and all of your help.

[aledeniz]

I mentioned this on the phone to HR, but they want a CoA followed up by an RC. The CoA sounds like no trouble, pretty automatic. What worries me is being denied the RC after six months of everything going swimmingly, for some ridiculous and easily challenged reason, but losing the job while appealing or reapplying. Then we're both screwed (and probably bankrupt.

While we hope none of us will ever need to pursue such avenue, if we suffer a loss and we think someone else caused that not acting lawfully, we may still sue them and ask for compensation.